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Upper control arms.
- Thread starter Stoney
- Start date
@dbrannon79 . You commented before I got a chance to post the second set of pictures LOL... Back bolt is the same as the front one side is knocked out one side isn't
@dbrannon79 ... Any suggestions how to knock them out, keep in mind that I don't have a lot of fancy tools....
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
remove both bolts fully and slide the control arm out of the mounts on the frame. you will have more room if you pull the tire off. make sure you have jack stands on the frame and support the lower control arm with a jack so the spring is not pulling down on the upper arm.
slide the upper arm out of the frame mounts and twist it out of the way. now you can attack the punch outs. be careful not to bend the mounts on the frame, but you can use a variety of methods to get the punch outs removed. 1/2" round bar prying against them in the hole, hammer and blunt punch and so fourth.
slide the upper arm out of the frame mounts and twist it out of the way. now you can attack the punch outs. be careful not to bend the mounts on the frame, but you can use a variety of methods to get the punch outs removed. 1/2" round bar prying against them in the hole, hammer and blunt punch and so fourth.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I think I had posted a youtube vid of someone using a 1/2" round bar to pry with against the punch outs. that will get one side out or bent to you can grab it with pliers.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
While the arm is out and the mounts are visible, take a good look at that area of the frame and make sure nothing is about rusted through. it would be a sad day if you whacked one with a hammer and punch and the mount comes off the frame!
clean up the area with some de-greaser and a wire brush. even some rattle can paint to look nice once it's all done!
clean up the area with some de-greaser and a wire brush. even some rattle can paint to look nice once it's all done!
@dbrannon79 .. they came out pretty easy using a old wood chisel and hammer... I didn't bother knocking the back side ones out.. although I might tomorrow just out of principle.. and probably going to do the other side of the truck also.. Maybe...that side is already perfect so might better not screw with it...
However. Ran into a minor problem... Obviously somebody has had it apart before, since some of the knockouts were already removed... I think when they were trying to adjust it they must have thought it was jammed or something and put a lot of force on the wrench, because the whole in the washers, they actually twisted so hard that they dug into the washer..
However. Ran into a minor problem... Obviously somebody has had it apart before, since some of the knockouts were already removed... I think when they were trying to adjust it they must have thought it was jammed or something and put a lot of force on the wrench, because the whole in the washers, they actually twisted so hard that they dug into the washer..
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I think they are sold as a kit (bolt and washer) but if the bolt is not rotating in the washer you should be ok to put them back. but do pull it back apart and remove the punch outs from the other mount.
here is the thing. when you are adjusting caster the idea is when you move one side out further, you need to move the other (front / back) side equally in the same amount. this keeps the caster angel the same. Now when you have to adjust camber. both front and rear adjustments are moved in or out the same amount. when doing an alignment, you get to play with both caster and camber.
to properly align the front wheels, first you set your camber. camber is the level (up / down) adjustment. second comes the caster. think of the front wheels like how a shopping cart wheels work. the wheel is always in front or behind the mount stud. think about how the shopping cart stays straight as you push it. now believe it or not, you can set caster to be positive or negative. both will give you different handling effects. there are several good write-ups online on how the different adjustments effect steering and handling.
last but not least after you have gotten the camber, caster done, then you adjust the toe. this is fairly straight forward. dead straight or 1/8" toed in.
Here is a link to a site that can help explain all three adjustments. do some searching online for the best angles for out trucks. others might chime in to help and recommend what is better. there are simple ways to do your alignment your self and be happy with it. it also helps to know what does what when taking it to an alignment shop and trying to explain what your truck is doing.
wildamericatradingco.com
here is the thing. when you are adjusting caster the idea is when you move one side out further, you need to move the other (front / back) side equally in the same amount. this keeps the caster angel the same. Now when you have to adjust camber. both front and rear adjustments are moved in or out the same amount. when doing an alignment, you get to play with both caster and camber.
to properly align the front wheels, first you set your camber. camber is the level (up / down) adjustment. second comes the caster. think of the front wheels like how a shopping cart wheels work. the wheel is always in front or behind the mount stud. think about how the shopping cart stays straight as you push it. now believe it or not, you can set caster to be positive or negative. both will give you different handling effects. there are several good write-ups online on how the different adjustments effect steering and handling.
last but not least after you have gotten the camber, caster done, then you adjust the toe. this is fairly straight forward. dead straight or 1/8" toed in.
Here is a link to a site that can help explain all three adjustments. do some searching online for the best angles for out trucks. others might chime in to help and recommend what is better. there are simple ways to do your alignment your self and be happy with it. it also helps to know what does what when taking it to an alignment shop and trying to explain what your truck is doing.
Caster, Camber and Toe Explained: The Ultimate Guide for Everyone - Wild America Trading Co.
Contents of this article Contents Introduction Caster (Wheel/Tire Caster) What is Caster? Neutral Wheel Caster Benefits of Neutral Caster Positive Wheel Caster Benefits of Positive Caster Negative Wheel Caster Effects of Negative Caster Camber (Wheel/Tire Camber) What is Camber? Positive Camber...
wildamericatradingco.com
Last edited:
Got the new castor bolts in the truck today. Knocked out the back side of the punch outs while I was in there.. didn't do other side of the truck yet .. I adjusted them both all the way out for now. Put a level against the rim. (Being a dually they stick out past the rubber.) It's almost perfect.. may be a little off because not sure how level the truck/ground was there .. tomorrow I'll take it to the gas station and park on the fuel island and check it . That should be pretty level..
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
@Stoney something you can also do to check level, cut you a peice of 2x4 that will lay flat over the rim giving you the ability to use a large carpenters square on the wheels. use the level to check the slab your on.
if your drive way is gravel or area your working in. use the old carpenters trick with a couple of small stakes you can drive in the ground and a length of string and a level that hangs from the string. find you 4 cut pieces of 2x8's just big enough for you to lay out on the ground and put each tire on. place them out in the gravel and level them front to back and side to side. now drive your truck up on them to do your alignment. you can now reliably use the level on the tires.
this setup also will help to turn the tires when you adjust your toe.
When you go to do the other side, before you remove anything or loosen it, look at the adjustments and the angle of the upper to lower ball joint. the best thing is to try to make both sides the same for caster. otherwise you will notice issues like a slight pull to one side, or when turning a corner, the wheel might not return all the way like it should.
if your drive way is gravel or area your working in. use the old carpenters trick with a couple of small stakes you can drive in the ground and a length of string and a level that hangs from the string. find you 4 cut pieces of 2x8's just big enough for you to lay out on the ground and put each tire on. place them out in the gravel and level them front to back and side to side. now drive your truck up on them to do your alignment. you can now reliably use the level on the tires.
this setup also will help to turn the tires when you adjust your toe.
When you go to do the other side, before you remove anything or loosen it, look at the adjustments and the angle of the upper to lower ball joint. the best thing is to try to make both sides the same for caster. otherwise you will notice issues like a slight pull to one side, or when turning a corner, the wheel might not return all the way like it should.
@dbrannon79 . I took the truck to the local grocery store. There lot is brand new and almost level... I had my 3-ft level in the truck so I put it on the ground right in front of the truck to check..
Then I put the level against the rim. Between the lug nuts... Thankfully it's just thin enough to sit flat in there.. the top of the tire is still in a tiny bit, I'm not sure what it's considered within spec. This was just a preliminary test to see if I'm relatively close.
Then I put the level against the rim. Between the lug nuts... Thankfully it's just thin enough to sit flat in there.. the top of the tire is still in a tiny bit, I'm not sure what it's considered within spec. This was just a preliminary test to see if I'm relatively close.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
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dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
it looks like your getting very close. I'm sure when you drive the the parking lot you noticed your steering wheel off a bit and possibly the truck pulling some. get the wheels as level as possible, then adjust the toe along with straightening the steering wheel. you'll be off to the races.
something I also do when I am adjusting my toe is setup a pair of jack stands in front of the truck on the ground. take some kite string and tie one end to one stand. wrap the string all the way around the back side of the truck and back up the the other stand. tie it to the stand.
get the string so it's up level about mid way height of the tires and pulled tight up by the two stands. Now for the tricky part place a twig or something under the string at the back of each tire so the string is running across the back tires up to the front but not touching the tire side wall.
use a ruler and measure the distance from the back side of the rear rim to the string and the front side of the back tire rim to the string. you want equal measurements. to adjust, move the jack stand in the front of the truck closer or farther from the truck keeping tension on the string. once you have the same measurement on the rear rim (front to back) the string is straight and parallel with the truck's rear axle. do both sides.
Now start taking measurements on the front rim (back to front) and get them straight. this will show you how well your truck will drive straight down the road or if it's going dog legged.
this is not necessary to do but helps get you a visual on how well it's gonna track down the road. you can make fine adjustments on the tierods too. just keep the steering wheel straight.
something I also do when I am adjusting my toe is setup a pair of jack stands in front of the truck on the ground. take some kite string and tie one end to one stand. wrap the string all the way around the back side of the truck and back up the the other stand. tie it to the stand.
get the string so it's up level about mid way height of the tires and pulled tight up by the two stands. Now for the tricky part place a twig or something under the string at the back of each tire so the string is running across the back tires up to the front but not touching the tire side wall.
use a ruler and measure the distance from the back side of the rear rim to the string and the front side of the back tire rim to the string. you want equal measurements. to adjust, move the jack stand in the front of the truck closer or farther from the truck keeping tension on the string. once you have the same measurement on the rear rim (front to back) the string is straight and parallel with the truck's rear axle. do both sides.
Now start taking measurements on the front rim (back to front) and get them straight. this will show you how well your truck will drive straight down the road or if it's going dog legged.
this is not necessary to do but helps get you a visual on how well it's gonna track down the road. you can make fine adjustments on the tierods too. just keep the steering wheel straight.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
it will, but the string will be a tire's width away from the front. it's just having equal measurements making a visual straight line on both sides of the truck. I mean if you want to go to the trouble of removing one wheel from each side of the rear, you can. but it's just to give you a better visual instead of just eyeballing it all. getting the string straight with the truck does take some time to do using the rear tires as a reference point. One thing to note. this won't work when the wind is blowing. it won't take much of a side wind to make the string move.
It's kinda like one of those carpenters tricks to square off things when building something. following a string line that's level and straight can save a lot of headaches LOL
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Take a chisel or a center punch.
Jack up one side, or both sides of the front tires, one side at a time is okay too.
Get Your hand wrapped around the punch/chisel, place the sharp edge against the tire, Spin, or have someone spin the tire while firmly holding the scribing device. Scribe a line all the way around the tire, repeat on the other front tire.
Drop the vehicle back to the ground. Half way up the tire, measure the distance between the scribe marks, front or back, then if you measured at the back, move to the front and measure the distance between the scribe marks.
The difference in the measurements will be the amount of toe in, or, toe out.
Books gives the amount of toe in.
Usually about a 1/16th to 3/16ths toe in at the front will be good.
A better more solid scribing device can be built.
Piece of flat, six inch square, smaller or bigger dont matter. 1/8th thick is okay.
In the middle, weld on two upright bars, about six or so inches long, 1/8th or 1/4” thick is fine. At the top bore a hole through both bars at the same height on each one. Maybe an inch or less from the top.
A pin to fit the holes.
Another flat bar, bring one end to a curved point like the end of a knife blade, so it will be sharp enough on the tip to scribe a mark.
About half the length drill a hole the same size as the hole through the two posts.
Set the sharpened bar between the posts place the pin through the one post, through the bar, through the other post so You have some round stock hanging out through each post and weld the sharpened bar to the round stock.
The two posts should be at a proper distance apart so that the sharpened bar dont drift between the posts.
A hole drilled through the but end of the sharpened bar, a small loop on the base and a spring attached between the bar and the base will apply tension to the tire while spinning the tire to scribe the marks. Kind of like a teeter totter.
If I was any good with some of the drawing apps I could draw it out so I hope You understand the building instructions.
Basically it is two posts, with a pivot bar between them. One end of the bar is sharp, other end has a tensioner spring between the bar and the base so the spring applies pressure to the pointed end to aid in scribing the mark.
Oh yeah, the curved side of the pointed blade goes downwards so that only the point is against the tire.
I dont know how else to describe it. I have used them.
The DOT even had a factory made measuring rod of square tube, one fit inside the other with wing bolts so once set they would not slide inside of each other. Both ends has an upright pointer, one pointer had marks, 0 being the center and 1/32nds “ marks out from both sides.
The line on each tire was scribed then the measuring stick slid up so the pointers were at the tires, one end non adjustable set on its scribed line, other end adjusted with the pointer on its mark and the measure gauge set on 0. Then the stick moved to the other side, non adjustable pointer set on its scribed line, other end with the measurements set up to the tire, then, the end with the 0 and measurements adjusted to the scribe and how far off from 0 that the pointer was at is how much toe out/ toe inn there was.
Jack up one side, or both sides of the front tires, one side at a time is okay too.
Get Your hand wrapped around the punch/chisel, place the sharp edge against the tire, Spin, or have someone spin the tire while firmly holding the scribing device. Scribe a line all the way around the tire, repeat on the other front tire.
Drop the vehicle back to the ground. Half way up the tire, measure the distance between the scribe marks, front or back, then if you measured at the back, move to the front and measure the distance between the scribe marks.
The difference in the measurements will be the amount of toe in, or, toe out.
Books gives the amount of toe in.
Usually about a 1/16th to 3/16ths toe in at the front will be good.
A better more solid scribing device can be built.
Piece of flat, six inch square, smaller or bigger dont matter. 1/8th thick is okay.
In the middle, weld on two upright bars, about six or so inches long, 1/8th or 1/4” thick is fine. At the top bore a hole through both bars at the same height on each one. Maybe an inch or less from the top.
A pin to fit the holes.
Another flat bar, bring one end to a curved point like the end of a knife blade, so it will be sharp enough on the tip to scribe a mark.
About half the length drill a hole the same size as the hole through the two posts.
Set the sharpened bar between the posts place the pin through the one post, through the bar, through the other post so You have some round stock hanging out through each post and weld the sharpened bar to the round stock.
The two posts should be at a proper distance apart so that the sharpened bar dont drift between the posts.
A hole drilled through the but end of the sharpened bar, a small loop on the base and a spring attached between the bar and the base will apply tension to the tire while spinning the tire to scribe the marks. Kind of like a teeter totter.
If I was any good with some of the drawing apps I could draw it out so I hope You understand the building instructions.
Basically it is two posts, with a pivot bar between them. One end of the bar is sharp, other end has a tensioner spring between the bar and the base so the spring applies pressure to the pointed end to aid in scribing the mark.
Oh yeah, the curved side of the pointed blade goes downwards so that only the point is against the tire.
I dont know how else to describe it. I have used them.
The DOT even had a factory made measuring rod of square tube, one fit inside the other with wing bolts so once set they would not slide inside of each other. Both ends has an upright pointer, one pointer had marks, 0 being the center and 1/32nds “ marks out from both sides.
The line on each tire was scribed then the measuring stick slid up so the pointers were at the tires, one end non adjustable set on its scribed line, other end adjusted with the pointer on its mark and the measure gauge set on 0. Then the stick moved to the other side, non adjustable pointer set on its scribed line, other end with the measurements set up to the tire, then, the end with the 0 and measurements adjusted to the scribe and how far off from 0 that the pointer was at is how much toe out/ toe inn there was.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
@dbrannon79 . Honestly I haven't touched it since I put the new bolts in. I think I told you I set both new bolts to there outer most adjustment..but either the next day or 2nd day after we got a pretty strong pop up shower, really high wind , only lasted about 15 minutes but it took down a pretty large section of a tree at a elderly couples house a couple blocks over. It landed on 2 sections of there roof on back of there house, smashed through the rafters right in to there Attic..they asked me to come look at the job fixing it, I gave them a price and they hired me.. There I'd guess in late 70s, really nice folks, so I've been busy rebuilding there roof system,. Not making a fortune but enough.. (they couldn't afford to hire a big company, living of there social security) but therefore the Truck had to get put on back burner, I'll be done with there place by Saturday so plan to get back to the truck Sunday. I might just take other side apart to make sure the knock outs are out on that side and then take it to a shop and get full alignment with castor and camber all done. That way I know it is right .but I plan to do it the way you told me to first just so I get the hang of it .that way I'll know in case I'm ever in this position again..