Towing long and heavy with a 6.5? Read on

[Chief915]

I have bought from reputable and still got bad ones so now I go locally where I can personally express my dismay...

Yep, I advise to get them checked no matter where or who you got them from.

Everyone makes mistakes, bad parts slip through quality control, some folks just sell straight junk to make money at the expense of someone else's trust.....

Even if I got a brand new set from Heath today..... I would still get them checked. Not that I don't trust Bill, far from that, I just want the "I know for sure" that my stuff is good.

 

[buddy]

Providing this information, is much the same reason I wrote my own pdf file of recommended maintenance and modifications, although I did not go into actual engine swaps. Maybe another paragraph is warranted. Its good to get a lot of info in one place for someone new to the scene to be able to get caught up. That said, some of it is opinion, and I also disagree some with what was stated.

I would have no issues getting a rebuilt engine from Diesel Depot or a machine shop with a lot of 6.5 experience. I couldnt beleive what an engine shop makes for assembling a V8 around me though. I cannot argue that getting the new engines is a plus, for the better metallurgy and construction. I would likely get a military take out though. You can buy just new blocks for a couple thousand if thats all that is needed to build one, or a whole takeout for that.

I also have no problem putting some methanol in my WMI. It just has to be in moderation, absolutely no more than 20% concentration, and I would just stick to 10%. I prefer having that 10% to keep everything clean, and if you do travel anywhere near freezing you wont have to drain all the lines if you have 10-20% methanol solution.

Good advice on the injector changing, and I would be more conservative, if you tow long and hard, consistent long high RPMs, then I would rebuild injectors at 50,000 miles. I also prefer rebuilding them, because new ones from Bosch are not set to tight pop tolerances, so unless you purchase from a shop that does it, and resets all the pops to be within 50psi or less range you can have an imbalance. I also like setting the pop a little higher than stock, because we push more than stock boost and more than stock fuel, which works against the injection pressure. So IMO rebuilding by a good shop and making sure they meet certain specs is the best way to go and only spend $250 to $350 or so bones. Unless you trust the supplier of new injectors to actually check and reset the balancing. To rebuild, then you can also seek out the German Bosch nozzles separately to put in there, so you know you got good parts.

 

[Acesneights1]

Providing this information, is much the same reason I wrote my own pdf file of recommended maintenance and modifications, although I did not go into actual engine swaps. Maybe another paragraph is warranted. Its good to get a lot of info in one place for someone new to the scene to be able to get caught up. That said, some of it is opinion, and I also disagree some with what was stated.

I would have no issues getting a rebuilt engine from Diesel Depot or a machine shop with a lot of 6.5 experience. I couldnt beleive what an engine shop makes for assembling a V8 around me though. I cannot argue that getting the new engines is a plus, for the better metallurgy and construction. I would likely get a military take out though. You can buy just new blocks for a couple thousand if thats all that is needed to build one, or a whole takeout for that.

I also have no problem putting some methanol in my WMI. It just has to be in moderation, absolutely no more than 20% concentration, and I would just stick to 10%. I prefer having that 10% to keep everything clean, and if you do travel anywhere near freezing you wont have to drain all the lines if you have 10-20% methanol solution.

Good advice on the injector changing, and I would be more conservative, if you tow long and hard, consistent long high RPMs, then I would rebuild injectors at 50,000 miles. I also prefer rebuilding them, because new ones from Bosch are not set to tight pop tolerances, so unless you purchase from a shop that does it, and resets all the pops to be within 50psi or less range you can have an imbalance. I also like setting the pop a little higher than stock, because we push more than stock boost and more than stock fuel, which works against the injection pressure. So IMO rebuilding by a good shop and making sure they meet certain specs is the best way to go and only spend $250 to $350 or so bones. Unless you trust the supplier of new injectors to actually check and reset the balancing. To rebuild, then you can also seek out the German Bosch nozzles separately to put in there, so you know you got good parts.

:agreed:
That is an excellent write up on the timing especially. I'm sure at some point a <95 will end up back in my hands. I never was sure I was doing it right with GMTDscan. You know me, old school,just turn the screw.
I'm saving that one.
I'd love to see a similar writeup with screenshots for Carcode.

 

[buddy]

Thanks, the write-up is a work in progress. There is a writeup with screenshot for CarCode made by Qwomack in an "OBD-II" thread, hard to find in search. I downloaded and annotated it a little more, explaining what youre doing and I added a "Time Set" step to it. I think its on the computer at work, so if I find it I'll post it up. I will say its nowhere near as nice as GMTDScanTech, not even close, but it gets the job done and I was still able to monitor the sensors I wanted to, just not as simple. I spent a lot of time on the DS4 aspect upfront because its the most frustrating usually.

 

[Acesneights1]

Yeah, I think that is my issue with it, I got spoiled with GMTDscan. I also think I got a bum copy. Alot of the features don't work. If only Steph would write and OBD2 version. It would sell like hotcakes.

 

[turbonator]

we all make due with what we have... at least you guys south of the border can lay hands on the military motors, we just buy motors all the time until we have enough pieces to build one..... last time it took 4 motors to make one... the motor is a '86 660 casting 6.2l, no cracks in the factory heads(still had the print-o-seals) no mains cracks, no burned fire rings, and all of this from a motor with 225,000 km.... and when it is built she will see heavy service.......

 

[Acesneights1]

Other than the crap Printoseals and the DB2's burning up on ULSD I have had very very little trouble with 6.2s. Definitely a good engine and have seen many last over 350kmiles.

 

[WarWagon]

Thanks for the response, Dave... it clearly gives your opinion, your rationale, and does so in a manner that doesn't offend anyone.
Precisely what I have been trying to find a way to do, for the past 2 days.

You see, this thread, although it has been described as a 'tech' thread, is still a lot of opinions. And opinions are like arseholes - everybody has one. Including me.

However, just because you HAVE one, doesn't mean you gotta BE one; sometimes, we can forget that little tidbit.

We don't treat each other like that around here. Just like I don't capriciously ban people.

So I'm going to leave this post without treating anybody badly ... because I don't think I have to, in order to get my point across.

This forum stands out as one that allows information to be posted and hashed by the members, most who have more experience than me. However I don't see the members letting something be that has different options or better price/performance that what is suggested.

You were the first to suggest the OP check the injectors followed by two other members, myself included. Even if you have a Duramax, Cummings, Powerstroke, or the antique 6.5 - a failed injector firing too soon will take the engine out totally and very quickly. Even the Optimizer block would be hurt by a piston melting down. A steel piston would only give you more time before it too seized up from oil failure and overheating with a bad injector.

What has to happen is the OP needs to take time to recover from the trip and wrap his mind around how and why his engine failed. Simply put he was lucky to have put off the optimizer replacement until the bad injectors ran their course. My pic is what happens to the block with a bad injector melting and locking up a piston worst case.

I am happy we were able to help him out and prevent the expensive top of the line engine choice from quick failure due to bad injectors that took out his engine. We could have kept quiet, but, we did not. Aces did not exactly get thanked for it. I understand the stress of the long trip and try and cut em some slack for that. I enjoyed reading about his trip and hopefully will read about other things he does to restore this truck to top shape.

 

[Chief915]

This forum stands out as one that allows information to be posted and hashed by the members, most who have more experience than me. However I don't see the members letting something be that has different options or better price/performance that what is suggested.

You were the first to suggest the OP check the injectors followed by two other members, myself included. Even if you have a Duramax, Cummings, Powerstroke, or the antique 6.5 - a failed injector firing too soon will take the engine out totally and very quickly. Even the Optimizer block would be hurt by a piston melting down. A steel piston would only give you more time before it too seized up from oil failure and overheating with a bad injector.

What has to happen is the OP needs to take time to recover from the trip and wrap his mind around how and why his engine failed. Simply put he was lucky to have put off the optimizer replacement until the bad injectors ran their course. My pic is what happens to the block with a bad injector melting and locking up a piston worst case.

I am happy we were able to help him out and prevent the expensive top of the line engine choice from quick failure due to bad injectors that took out his engine. We could have kept quiet, but, we did not. Aces did not exactly get thanked for it. I understand the stress of the long trip and try and cut em some slack for that. I enjoyed reading about his trip and hopefully will read about other things he does to restore this truck to top shape.

X2

Very well said.

 

[Ratman]

I really enjoyed reading most of this thread. The bottom line is that we kick into "survival-mode" and do whatever we need to do to get out of a pinch. For some, buying a $7k replacement engine when dead halfway across the country would be a no-brainer. However, for poor pathetic guys like me, I'd have to resort to less costly alternatives.

I learned about 6.5's real quick when mine had issues, -and people from the "page" and "place" came out of the woodwork to help me go in the right direction. Robyn, Turbine Doc, GMCTD, John8662, DieselPro, -and many more stepped in to help. I have returned that favor on many occasions with others (in the form of lengthy PM's and free parts) to those of you who were in dire straits during an emergency, -you know who you are . That is really what bonds us survivalists together. As far as how each of us finds our way out of certain predicaments, -well, we should all just agree to disagree sometimes and get over it, after all, the reason we are all here is because we have something in common :thumbsup:

 

[JiFaire]

WW, Ratman, Chief ... thanks for your responses.

I am currently in the tail end of my own road trip, and don't have tons of time to participate right now, but I need to make it clear that I am in no way trying to muzzle people's opinions ... as WW correctly pointed out, this forum has always been unique in that we allow those discussions to carry on without excessive moderation, and I happen to think that is a strength.

We have a lot of talented, thoughtful, and knowledgeable people on here that all grow smarter by trying out their ideas on each other, by contesting and investigating accepted paradigms, and by challenging each other's thinking. I have personally learned a great deal from all of you, and am richer for your participation and conversation.

What distressed me in this thread was the tone that was taken in several posts... there are lots of ways to disagree with a person's opinion or suggestion without being a jerk about it... what should be contested here are ideas, not personalities, and that isn't what was happening.

There are several things in this thread that I disagree with; generalities without any substantive data or proof behind them, but contesting those ideas in an atmosphere of antagonism is only going to make things worse, IMHO.

Do you need a new engine in order to tow? Of course not. Is it the best way to be sure you aren't inheriting the consequences of other people's sins? Of course. The price to pay for that is what's up for discussion, not the idea... simply put, are you willing to buy a brand-new optimizer or p400 to be sure of what you're getting? If so, then good for you. If not, then good for you. Either way, it is now your issue.

That the OP suggested this as the best way to go is not in any way stating that others who made a different choice are retards. Suggesting that was the intent is disingenuous, to say the least.

There are other aspects of BJ's post that should be discussed; many of them will stand the scrutiny of the crowd, some will not, but each idea should be considered from the standpoint that the OP is a respected forum member that has contributed lots to all of us, and we are considering the pros and cons of his idea with no extra baggage... and making our own decisions as a result of that consideration.

Several other 'blanket' statements were made by different members that ALSO need to be challenged and considered, because they also are not definitive facts. Think about that.

If those things were done, now THAT would be an informative thread.

However, what we got was a series of personal, emotional attacks by different people, aimed at different people.

I repeat; we don't treat each other that way around here.

I hope this clarifies my position, and I hope that if I offended somebody unjustly, they will accept my apology - such was not my intent. However, if an apology is owed in the other direction, I also hope that those individuals will take the initiative to reconsider their earlier actions and own up to them.

Jim

 

[Burning oil]

:wow: :thanks: :yo:. h: :sad6: :bye:.

 

[handcannon]

Very well said Jim.

Don

 

[orrum]

Just got back on line today and boy o boy can u fellers scrap!!!! I like all involved here have a opinion, however my canary mouth is afraid of gettin my alligator butt in trouble!!! LOL

I just towed a stock trailer yesterday with 6 big steers and the total weight was almost 10000 lbs with my old dually and she ate it up!!!!!! No turbo, no fancy mods except a air breather treatment by Buddy and Handcannon. I been towing a lot here lately to get a feel for the truck.

I only towed 100 miles one way and deadheaded empty back yesterday but fellows that 100 miles was as scary to me as 5000 miles would have been and I sure am glad I read all of the threads Ace, BJ and others posted here!!!! I knew to keep her under 210 degrees and that was CRITICAL people and I probably would have ruined something without all of the info on here cause I would have pushed it harder, not for faster speed but to have pulled the hills better but I backed off and now my ancient antique 6.2 is something I trust to go somewhere and get back!

This site and its people and knowledge base are a incredible resource and I feel its time for this lil pissing contest to come to an end, good clubs have split and gone to sh!t over these kinda situations!

I was born and raised in Saltville Va. the Salt Capitol of the Confederate States of America nestled in the scenic foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains of the Appalachia and I was raised to defend a mans right to be a man and make his own decisions in life! We hillbillies dont ask how u vote or give advise on other peoples money. Thats it plain and simple.

Buddy about went crazy trying to explain how to do a OPS mod with LP primer button to me and BJ jumped in and helped out and thanks be to both of them cause I got it done just as the OPS was starting to get wacky. God bless them and all of u for dealing with my non mechanical brain!

Now BJ get ur butt back on the site cause one thing I can do is take advantage of others skill sets and I for one like having all the help I can get. Sorry for ranting but I think this thread is done and has done enough!!!!

May we all walk the path of beauty.......

 

[orrum]

Gosh darn it!!! I know, I know....paragraphs!!! I forgot, could someone please dress it up for me before I catch all kinds of flack????

 

[buddy]

Well, not trying to sound emotional, but the original post was "a bitter pill to swallow" for people that have worked hard doing something that was "a waste of time and money". That caught him some flack, completely understandable.

 

[Chief915]

Gosh darn it!!! I know, I know....paragraphs!!! I forgot, could someone please dress it up for me before I catch all kinds of flack????

You should see an "edit" button at the bottom of your post next to the reply and reply with quote buttons. Hit "edit post" and you can bust it up into paragraphs.

 

[orrum]

Hey Chief thanks I got er done!

 

[Chief915]

Well, not trying to sound emotional, but the original post was "a bitter pill to swallow" for people that have worked hard doing something that was "a waste of time and money". That caught him some flack, completely understandable.

Buddy, I agree....

However, I guess my interpretation of what he said/meant is a little different than how it comes across to someone else reading the same thing.

Here is how I interpreted the OP...... These are merely my interpretations of what I read in the original post, your interpretation may vary.

Plan on towing long and heavy with a 6.5?
- I interpret that to mean heavy loads over long distances on a consistent basis, which is not what most of us do with our 6.5's. We do tow, we do tow heavy sometimes, but not real heavy for a lot of miles very often, at least for most of us.

- I took his "engine" section to mean this.... IF your current engine has a lot of miles (250,000 or more for a starting point) or have any doubt to the condition of the engine AND you are "building" your truck for the purpose of towing heavy loads long distances consistently, THEN you should go with the new optimizer or P400. NOTE: I don't necessarily agree that these are the only options..... If you fit the description of building the truck with the intent of towing heavy loads long distances on a consistent basis, THEN you are wasting your time and money by replacing your worn out engine with a "rebuilt" GM block engine or spending time and money rebuilding your original engine.

For a daily driver, or something you’re going to tow with every so often, or for the doing those things that 90% of us use our 6.5's for...... No you don't need to run out and buy an optimizer from a dealer or buy a P400 to make it a "reliable" truck.

Maybe I am off base on what BJ really meant... But that's how I took it.

Just my .02

 

[Big T]

I confess to tuning this thread out after about two or three pages. After revisiting, I've got some questions.

Optimizer vs P400: what are the differences?

Who or what is Ted's Engine?

Whatever happened to the guy who was going to tow a 35' travel trailer from BC to Nova Scotia with a 6.5 experiencing heavy blow by?

Who's BJ? Is that Great White?

OP?

WTF is Kenny's Avatar? Is that a hamburger under a storm cloud? Or a volcano blowing its top off?

Finally, after reading this towing tail, which included the vaunted 4th of July Pass, I looked up some statistics:

Maximum Elevation: 3,173'
Maximum Grade: 5%

Looks like I have a work assignment in Spokane starting in another couple weeks. I'll give this vaunted 4th of July Pass a run just to experience it. I think I'll have a double latte before I do it, just to be sure I don't miss it.