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Timing is Off, Can't Set It

Big T said:
IP pump was working fine before I started the cooling upgrade with changeout of the timing chain.
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Maybe so but they can just suddenly fail, :sad:

I just use a prybar to move the pump, no need to spend time and money building a special tool, but if you do have time, then that's ok, :thumbsup:
 
Acesneights1 said:
I would "think" if it was a tooth off it would not run at all. White smoke is antifreeze. Greyish smoke is raw fuel.
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No coolant smell at all. It's definitely diesel. Smells like Tijuana on a night with no wind and a temperature inversion.
 
Acesneights1 said:
how does it sound like ? Like it's knocking ? where are you located ?
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I'm located in Fullerton, CA which is just north of Anaheim and Disneyland.

Sound is alright, almost quieter than normal. Idle is low and there is a slight studder then. Smoke cleans up at operating temp, unless I really get into the pedal, then there's some white.....err gray smoke.
 
"Turbovanman, in comparison to the timing chain I took off, the new one was as tight as that a$$ in your avatar.

Like my wife, the IP gear only went on one way and that is with the peg in the elongated hole."


Good analogy!!! ):h

Timing may have been set one time when the chain was already worn, the IP only has to move VERY little to change timing a lot. Retiming with tight chain might just do it.

Getting GMTD ScanTech is nice to have any ways if you read the site description. You do need the Scantech version not the Basic version to set timing though. $200. well spent and less trips to the stealer.
 
Mudbath said:
"Turbovanman, in comparison to the timing chain I took off, the new one was as tight as that a$$ in your avatar.

Like my wife, the IP gear only went on one way and that is with the peg in the elongated hole."


Good analogy!!! ):h

Timing may have been set one time when the chain was already worn, the IP only has to move VERY little to change timing a lot. Retiming with tight chain might just do it.

Getting GMTD ScanTech is nice to have any ways if you read the site description. You do need the Scantech version not the Basic version to set timing though. $200. well spent and less trips to the stealer.
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Yeah they threw this pump in there about 40K miles ago, when the remote PMD did not solve my problems. So timing was set then on the old chain.

It seems as though the consensus here is that I may not have erred on my installation and that I should order GMTDScan Tech before I go in and tear everything apart. Also do some metal bending to fab my tools. Is that where the consensus is coming out at?

The truck is not my daily driver, so I can wait for the program and cable. But my time to work on this will soon be limited by work work.
 
I would try to get it retimed first, it really seems impossible you have it timed wrong, from a timing chain perspective.
 
Funny stuff up there Big T!!!!!!!!!!

Elaborate more about the rotation of the pump you did, how much did you move it? more than 1/16-1/8 " ??

So you dropped it off, they let it sit, pulled it in hours later, and tried to time it? Call or go down there tomorrow and find out if he let it get to 180 degrees. I don't think the computer will let it time otherwise, I know it wont on OBD2.
 
Matt Bachand said:
Funny stuff up there Big T!!!!!!!!!!

Elaborate more about the rotation of the pump you did, how much did you move it? more than 1/16-1/8 " ??

So you dropped it off, they let it sit, pulled it in hours later, and tried to time it? Call or go down there tomorrow and find out if he let it get to 180 degrees. I don't think the computer will let it time otherwise, I know it wont on OBD2.
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It won't on OBD1 either and all codes must be cleared too.
 
IIRC on the 6.2s which probably hold true on these as well when they sound a little "too smooth" and are difficlut to start the IP usually needs to get advanced toward the D?S IIRC. You may be able to just bump it a touch but I'm not sure(well don't remember what I read) how to get the ECM to relearn the new position without being commanded by a scan tool. LIke you said, if time is on your side just order GMTDscan. He emails you the program so you'll get that instantly but the cable takes a little time as it's coming form sweden or something. Don't rmemeber how long it took but I don't think it was that bad. There are other places to get that cable I think as well and you can just buy his software but I chose to get both form him so I knew it would work without issue. I did a htread somewhere here I think on installing it. Gotta watch the com port config.
 
The Tech 1/2 won't allow you to do TDCO unless at operating temp but GMTDScan will but it won't set correctly if I undertsand it right. In otherwords with GMTDScan it needs to be at operating temp but gmtdscan doesn't have the failsafe that the Tech1/2 has
 
The pump gear fits only one way, with the peg in the slot hole, not the round hole. To align the mark on the pump gear with the mark on the cam gear, I had to rotate the IP clockwise some. In my effort to install the gear, it had been rotated counter clockwise some. Probably no more than a tick or two in the pump each way.

The way I see it, the IP gear only goes on one way. IP gear mark is lined up with the cam gear mark, which itself only goes on the cam one way (keyed slot). The timing sprockets themselves only go ony one way (keyed slots). So either the marks on the timing sprockets are not lined up and they're off a tooth, or they're lined up. If it's off, it would eminate from the timing sprockets.

I was going back and forth to the computer looking at Missy's pics here and some other guy's pics at DP to make sure I did this right. The only thing that had me scratching my head was the key on the cam was not lining up exactly with the gear. So I lightly grabbed it (i.e. the cam) with some large channel locks on the key and rotated it a hair counterclockwise and it lined up and everything just slid on.
 
Acesneights1 said:
IIRC on the 6.2s which probably hold true on these as well when they sound a little "too smooth" and are difficlut to start the IP usually needs to get advanced toward the D?S IIRC. You may be able to just bump it a touch but I'm not sure(well don't remember what I read) how to get the ECM to relearn the new position without being commanded by a scan tool. LIke you said, if time is on your side just order GMTDscan. He emails you the program so you'll get that instantly but the cable takes a little time as it's coming form sweden or something. Don't rmemeber how long it took but I don't think it was that bad. There are other places to get that cable I think as well and you can just buy his software but I chose to get both form him so I knew it would work without issue. I did a htread somewhere here I think on installing it. Gotta watch the com port config.
Click to expand...

I went to the dealer because I was hopeful that it was a simple matter and it would be off and running for my son to use on his hunting trip. Now that I have the time, I will order the GMTDScan as there is no question it will save me money. And yes I have already read your thread on the software install.

I'll have to get my guy at the muffler shop to bend me a wrench.
 
Acesneights1 said:
Dealerships are nothing but robbers without guns. I'd say 80% of the members here ended up here after being raped at the dealer.
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Oh I agree whole heartedly. My wife's SLK230 keeps me on the Mercedes Benz forums quite a bit. All sorts of stupid little things to deal with, but so far I've corrected nearly 100% of them with worldwide help on the net. Myself, I commute in a Honda. Rarely anything goes wrong with them. I hate dealers with a passion.
 
Jumping in late here but I would check all the electrical connections make sure there clean and tight. The tdco is stored in the pcm and doesn't change until commanded. And mine ran fine way way off of optimal I was at +3.46.The little bit that you desribe moving the cam gear shouldn't have affected the timing that much. Sounds to me like more of an electrical problem ie crank sensor, optical sensor, etc
 
ak diesel driver said:
Jumping in late here but I would check all the electrical connections make sure there clean and tight. The tdco is stored in the pcm and doesn't change until commanded. And mine ran fine way way off of optimal I was at +3.46.The little bit that you desribe moving the cam gear shouldn't have affected the timing that much. Sounds to me like more of an electrical problem ie crank sensor, optical sensor, etc
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I did have to pull the crank sensor to completely remove the timing cover for cleaning, but I reinstalled it.

How would I know if the crank sensor is the problem?

Where does the cable for the crank sensor plug into?

OK did a search on the CPS. I will note that I had the batteries unplugged for a week. Could that be adding to this problem?
 
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disconnecting the batts is no problem,it got your codes cleared.
may wanna put the charger on anyway.
CPS could be a potential problem if it got damaged with having too remove it, i guess you can OHM it(i dont know the value though)
It'll def cause a hard start if it was'nt plugged in
 
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