No start 95 S

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Thinking about this more... you were backing when it quit and it has never started again, right so far ??

Have a look at the wiring in and around the motor, maybe pulled a group and a connection is loose..



If it didn't fire with WD then me thinks your starter isn't turning fast enough now, I know that doesn't explain why it quit to start with... just thinking here...

I guess this is a auto tranny truck, so no pull starting...

 

[packratt]

Have you verified you get fuel at the inlet of the IP? The hose is on top of the IP thus easy to get to and test. Maybe a clogged fuel filter or kinked hose between the IP and FFM thus the water drain reads good but the IP is still starving for fuel.

Had not checked there, will check when I check fuel pressure and replace filter.

Does your fuel smell like gasoline?

No, I filled it before I left home and drove for 4 hours.

Not lighting off on WD 40 has me concerned. Again Cranking RPM low or something else like loss of compression.

Concerns me also. Truck was running fine, with no strange noises or loss of power, for the previous 4 hours until I shut it down.

I feel you should have some flow in the return line while cranking otherwise the IP is air locked or having other problems.

I've wondered about this. I would think that there should be a steady if slow flow of fuel past IP when cranking.

I am not sure I am clearly explaining "why" I jumper and leave the lift pump on when starting a troublesome diesel.

I understand this and have had it jumpered since I determined it wasn't coming on when the key was turned. Not remembering it was only controlled by the OPS in a 95.

 

[jrsavoie]

I also add another OEM style wire from the alternator to the battery that doesn't have one going to it. This also gives a tiny more power to the starter.

One more thought I had was - I have had to change the ignition switch on all of my 6.5's that were 1995 and newer.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I see after posting you have a manual tranny... anyone there that can pull you, that will turn the motor and give the starter a break...

 

[packratt]

I do the same as Warwagon. I use a fused jumper with toggle switch. That way I can turn it off without disconnecting it.

See warwagon post.

Have you checked for voltage at the fuel shut off solenoid?

Haven't will check tonight if not raining.

I run the IP return line to a container and leaving the lift pump running, turn the key to run. This should open the fuel shut off solenoid and produce a trickle of fuel out the return line. At least it does on all mine that I have done this on - not positive it is supposed to. Hopefully somebody will verify this.

Have not tried this with the return line disconnected. With it connected no fuel past IP with lift pump running and very little past while cranking.

Do you have a battery load tester available? It's a pain, but I have load tested the batteries at the starter connection. Just have to be careful in there. It's easy to short something.

Have one will try but likely not tonight.

On my thread about the 1994 K3500 from a couple of Christmases ago. I have links for how to test the PMD plug.

On my 94 I had good voltages at all the pins. But the return pin was not getting voltage back to the IP until I tried yet another extension cable. That cable made connection and the truck started right up.

Currently PMD is hooked direct to pump, no extension cable.

If you have the optic sensor filter harness, it can be removed, thrown away and that plug then goes directly to the IP.

I'll look and remove for testing.

Might check for continuity to the IP ground and the ground by the heater blower. I have seen the stud with all the grounds at the back of the engine lose continuity. I run a 10 gauge wire directly to that stud.

As long as you are at it adding the extra grounds will not hurt anything and there is a slim possibility it could help.

Will do.

 

[packratt]

Thinking about this more... you were backing when it quit and it has never started again, right so far ??

Have a look at the wiring in and around the motor, maybe pulled a group and a connection is loose..



If it didn't fire with WD then me thinks your starter isn't turning fast enough now, I know that doesn't explain why it quit to start with... just thinking here...

I guess this is a auto tranny truck, so no pull starting...

Nothing in the parking lot to snag on.

It was on 200A boost the whole time I was cranking. I put it on charge for a couple hours last night. If it isn't raining when I get home I'll hook it back up. Don't want to be standing in a puddle with the juice going.

Wrong vintage auto trans to pull start. IIRC there was one 50's or 60's vintage that it could be done with.

 

[jrsavoie]

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/th...-not-restart-it-died-like-it-was.41106/page-3

 

[packratt]

One more thought I had was - I have had to change the ignition switch on all of my 6.5's that were 1995 and newer.

It's cranking with the switch, are you thinking one of the contacts in it isn't triggering something.

 

[jrsavoie]

Nothing in the parking lot to snag on.

It was on 200A boost the whole time I was cranking. I put it on charge for a couple hours last night. If it isn't raining when I get home I'll hook it back up. Don't want to be standing in a puddle with the juice going.

Wrong vintage auto trans to pull start. IIRC there was one 50's or 60's vintage that it could be done with.

I have killed PMD's using a booster starter. I have heard of other's doing the same.

I don't do it anymore and have not had an incident like sudden death PMD shortly after having a booster hooked to the batteries and starting.

You can read through the link I posted which will take you to other links which will contain Buddy's diagnostics.

I could not figure out how to post that directly.

 

[jrsavoie]

It's cranking with the switch, are you thinking one of the contacts in it isn't triggering something.

Just a possibility. I think the 95 Tahoe ignition switch died in a similar manner. I drove it up by the house, parked it and when I tried to start it again, I got nothing. That was in my ignition switch changing days.

If I have the same problem with a couple of 6.5's - I just start changing that part as a matter of general maintenance. I do not remember doing diagnostics on the Tahoe. I think I just bought an ignition switch because I had changed a few already and put it on something I just do from the start if I have an unusual issue like this.

Same as I am doing now with the engine wiring harnesses, battery cables and adding the grounds. If I think a part should be changed because of wear and tear or age, I just change it. If that does not fix my problem, then I worry about diagnostics.

I'm also into changing battery cables these days. I upgrade to heavier cables. I've seen enough battery cables that were degraded that if I have to take one off for something and have the time, I don't mess with cleaning or testing, I just change the cable out for a good quality cable

 

[packratt]

I see after posting you have a manual tranny... anyone there that can pull you, that will turn the motor and give the starter a break...

This isn't the top truck in the signature, hadn't updated it yet when you posted. The K3500 with manual trans dumped a head gasket.

I'd bought the 2500 w/o title since it had a good cab, fair bed and I needed to do a cab and bed swap. PO said it wouldn't start after he had a craigslist mechanic replace flexplate. When the 3500 went down, I put a starter in it and haven't had a problem starting it. In fact it ran good. When doing a tune up I found someone had busted an ear off the distributor. Currently in shop getting that replaced. Got a title and decided to keep it on the road.

I found the C1500, was supposed to run good, reverse slipping, body in very good shape. Bought it as a parts truck, motor incase block/heads in K3500 cracked. K3500 needed doors, C2500 needed fenders bed from C2500 was going to K3500 and C1500 to C2500. Put the 1500 on the road while getting the 2500 ready. Found out a nearly bald rear tire was causing the limited slip to engage, guess this is what the PO thought was a trans slip. Hasn't slipped since I stuck a couple decent tires on it. Truck is too nice to part.

Now I'm stuck with none of them working.

 

[packratt]

Now to quit typing, pick up gauge & switch, and go home and try a couple more things.

 

[packratt]

Should fuel solenoid be showing voltage when key in run position?

 

[jrsavoie]

This isn't the top truck in the signature, hadn't updated it yet when you posted. The K3500 with manual trans dumped a head gasket.

I'd bought the 2500 w/o title since it had a good cab, fair bed and I needed to do a cab and bed swap. PO said it wouldn't start after he had a craigslist mechanic replace flexplate. When the 3500 went down, I put a starter in it and haven't had a problem starting it. In fact it ran good. When doing a tune up I found someone had busted an ear off the distributor. Currently in shop getting that replaced. Got a title and decided to keep it on the road.

I found the C1500, was supposed to run good, reverse slipping, body in very good shape. Bought it as a parts truck, motor incase block/heads in K3500 cracked. K3500 needed doors, C2500 needed fenders bed from C2500 was going to K3500 and C1500 to C2500. Put the 1500 on the road while getting the 2500 ready. Found out a nearly bald rear tire was causing the limited slip to engage, guess this is what the PO thought was a trans slip. Hasn't slipped since I stuck a couple decent tires on it. Truck is too nice to part.

Now I'm stuck with none of them working.

Good God that sounds like the kind of circus I get going around my house sometimes. LOL

The vehicles all had around 200,000 miles or more when I swapped ignition switches. I have no clue what others ignition switch escapades have been. But I am kind of curious.

 

[jrsavoie]

Should fuel solenoid be showing voltage when key in run position?

If I recall correctly it the wire should have 12 volts to it with the key on run.

It has been since the 94 escapade a couple of years ago since I have had to check that.

Also note that I tried several harnesses and PMD's with and without harnesses before I stumbled across my true issue on the 94.

It really ticked me off that I found the issue right where I started looking.

Wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't happened when it was 5 below zero out.

 

[WarWagon]

Best I recall the ignition switch is all that controls the solenoid VIA THE ECM. Best I recall from reading there is no code to use it in case of runaway etc. It's just a secondary safety in case of complete pump, or PMD, failure in a rare runaway. IGN cut off stops PMD power so the stop solenoid is kind of a wart.

So the signal comes from the ECM so a quick crank with the voltmeter across it on the windshield would be a final answer. No volts while cranking you would have a final answer.

I found a faucet aerator sized and threaded plug down at the hardware store and plugged the fuel stop solenoid hole on a DS4 as it was leaking. This was after I cut it's plunger off with a hacksaw, and of course, before I found the dammed kinked hose.

Verify what wire is the ground, disconnect it, and hit it with 12v. You care about the ground in case it has a built in surge diode. Look at fuses etc. later.

Looking at the codes you posted earlier you have a electrical short written all over this. Code 13 is fuel stop circuit, but, code 57, ECM 5 volt shorted, is just that. So code 99 APP 5 volt problem is a "no shit" from code 57 saying there is a short. (ECM's generally only have one 5v source. Short the only 5v and everything that needs 5v doesn't get it and, of course, trips it's own code.) You will wind up checking wires for rub through and unplugging nearly everything. Good luck if it's intermittent. Codes are goofy about setting immediately and ECM's do go out, but, should be dead last to replace.

The "Boost" on battery chargers should be called "Boom!" for it's ability to let magic smoke out of electronics and Glow Plugs.

 

[packratt]

Was starting to rain when I got home.

I did check fuel pressure 9lb from lift pump to IP.

12.4V at fuel solenoid

 

[WarWagon]

Section 2 has the IP/PMD troubleshooting flowchart in the 500.pdf linked here: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/th...-5-db2-5-7l-info-online-from-stanadyne.26581/

A video of it cranking would be helpful.

@jrsavoie has a real point about ignition switches. They brown out rather then burn 100% open sometimes. ECM's go NUTS on brownouts.

As you have voltage now I see a wiggle test of the harness in your future and good luck hunting electrical problems down. I assumed you checked/cleaned the grounds?

 

[packratt]

Looking at the codes you posted earlier you have a electrical short written all over this. Code 13 is fuel stop circuit, but, code 57, ECM 5 volt shorted, is just that. So code 99 APP 5 volt problem is a "no shit" from code 57 saying there is a short. (ECM's generally only have one 5v source. Short the only 5v and everything that needs 5v doesn't get it and, of course, trips it's own code.) You will wind up checking wires for rub through and unplugging nearly everything. Good luck if it's intermittent. Codes are goofy about setting immediately and ECM's do go out, but, should be dead last to replace.

I am not certain about these codes 59-57-84-99 I think I may have gotten off on the count. Also I do not know the last time the codes were cleared before I pulled them. System was cleared after pulling.

I am certain about the 13-29-31-32-33-41-44-45. I am also still getting the 13 and 40's after clearing.

@jrsavoie has a real point about ignition switches. They brown out rather then burn 100% open sometimes. ECM's go NUTS on brownouts.

Bought a switch tonight but was rained out on install. Thinking about it I may have had a similar problem on a '93 Ford F150 and a couple others.

As you have voltage now I see a wiggle test of the harness in your future and good luck hunting electrical problems down. I assumed you checked/cleaned the grounds?

Had not tested voltage before I tested the Engine Shut Off solenoid.

From looking at a couple similar threads on DP (have not posted this there) it looks like they have fuel coming out of the IP return during cranking, which I am not getting.

 

[jrsavoie]

I am not certain about these codes 59-57-84-99 I think I may have gotten off on the count. Also I do not know the last time the codes were cleared before I pulled them. System was cleared after pulling.

I am certain about the 13-29-31-32-33-41-44-45. I am also still getting the 13 and 40's after clearing.


Bought a switch tonight but was rained out on install. Thinking about it I may have had a similar problem on a '93 Ford F150 and a couple others.


Had not tested voltage before I tested the Engine Shut Off solenoid.

From looking at a couple similar threads on DP (have not posted this there) it looks like they have fuel coming out of the IP return during cranking, which I am not getting.

I do not believe you will get fuel while cranking unless the PMD is telling the IP to give you some fuel.

From my experience, It seems it took more than just a few cranks to get a decent supply of fuel while cranking. I actually never cranked long enough to get a decent flow out of the return while cranking.

I just do not like to crank that long while waiting for the engine to fire