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Milspec Motors

Dave Barbieri

Dave Barbieri

Member
Messages
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Location
Overton, TX
I've seen several posts concerning the military surplus engines that are showing up at surplus auction sites. Several months ago, I decided to join one of the sites - Governments Liquidation (http://www.govliquidation.com/index.html). I've been following the auctions that occur near (sort of) to my east TX home: OKC, Fort Sill, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Shreveport. I'm seeing some interesting stuff; unused or almost new 6.2L motors (some with GEP labels on the valve cover), new-in-the-shipping-container 6.5L NA and turbo motors. Price seems to be all over the board. Here's a couple of examples at both ends of the spectrum:

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=3575419&categoryId=c7601
This engine was located in San Antonio and, judging from the unrusted machine surfaces, it's never seen daylight since its manufacture date.

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=3541083&categoryId=c7601
This is an older GEP motor, from the Fort Carson auction. Look past the surface rust and check out the pristine exhaust manifolds, the lack of trace coolant in the T-stat housing and a super clean intake. Low mileage take-out? New, never installed surplus?

My personal favorite (I've lost the bookmark!) was a brand new, 6.5td motor (mfr date August 2008) that sold here in Texas for $387. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I've forgotten what exactly fits and what doesn't, so I've got to get busy and research old posts, etc. The fact that the motors are milspec is a real help - what applies to one, applies to all. I've noticed that folks are starting to really go crazy over the newer 6.5 stuff. Especially the 'big boys' in the 6.5 replacement world. It's been kinda interesting to see a batch of rusted used-up motors that sold for almost nothing, surface on ebay, selling for $$$. :rolleyes5:

I may end up using an older GEP 6.2 for my upcoming (Christmas break) engine R&R. We'll see...
 
No experience with the used Gov stuff. But at that price, you could buy two engines and make one good one. If there is problems with an engine you bought, that is.

It would be my luck I'd buy two sand and shrapnel filled versions that are HOSED... It's sometimes worth the extra money to buy one that RUNS WELL. One that you can actually see and hear in person.

Is it a $150 minimum bid across the board, or something like that?
 
Word is these engines are removed before the truck goes to the bombing target range. Or were spares that were new, not used after rebuild, or pulled out and not rebuilt.

I was lucky and bought 6.2 that was test run a guaranteed to run for 30 plus days. I pulled the heads to put in turbo spec gaskets. There was no soot in the valve covers. The timing chain was tight. Pistons had soot on them.

So I got a fresh rebuilt 6.2 for my 6.5 project and $16.00 bucks back on scrapping the old alternators and other junk I didn't want on the engine. I used the heads as mine were cracked.

The "Test run" and someone else taking the risk of a bad engine made the $1200 delivered price tag (boyceequipment.com) worth it. Because it took 3 weeks to swap the engine between working 2 jobs and I needed the truck.

Others like 3500GMC have had bad luck with a used (not military surplus) engine and have had to pull it back out due to a block crack leaking coolant.

You can take a chance on what you get if you have time and don't need an engine to drop in and run yesterday.

The relief you get when you drop a engine in and it runs without major engine has to come back out issues is something else.

Also the precups will be military exempt from emissions heavy duty. And a tank of biodiesel will cure emissions test issues...
 
GEP 6.2????? I haven't seen that yet on there ,if there is such a thing.
 
I deliberately went 'cheap' on the 6.2/6.5 hybrid deal that I'm working on. Running total well under 2 grand for the '93 in my signature.

So with a little luck (applies to Gov buys also) things will be good for a while.

Going into this project I knew the hazards. But I don't care. I like to mess around with GM iron. :thumbsup:
 
3500GMC said:
I deliberately went 'cheap' on the 6.2/6.5 hybrid deal that I'm working on. Running total well under 2 grand for the '93 in my signature.

So with a little luck (applies to Gov buys also) things will be good for a while.

Going into this project I knew the hazards. But I don't care. I like to mess around with GM iron. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
This is one of my options. Good 6.5 heads on a strong 6.2 block. My first option is to find one of the 6.5td's that are being used in the uppower/uparmor program. Squirters, heavy block, the whole nine yards. Not sure that the oil pan configuration will work in my truck. If we're talking serious modification, then I'd be back to Plan A: hybrid motor.
 
I understand buying from GL can be a PIA. There is a whole thread I have been meaning to read on Steel Soldiers about the in's and outs of it. Boyce was the one I couldn't remember. i have heard good things about them.
 
Acesneights1 said:
I understand buying from GL can be a PIA. There is a whole thread I have been meaning to read on Steel Soldiers about the in's and outs of it. Boyce was the one I couldn't remember. i have heard good things about them.
Click to expand...
A few years back, when I was at Texas State Technical College, we used 'heavy metal' to teach part of the diesel program. The folks at Boyce were outstanding to deal with. And they had GREAT catalogs! :D

I've been tracking engines on GL since May, but I haven't bid on anything yet. If you've got any webpages that help with inside info, I'd welcome the 'heads up'. Always better to learn form someone else's mistakes than your own. :thumbsup:
 
I have recently rebuilt a military surplus NA 6.5 for our Suburban. Given a choice, that is what I suggest you start with. You have to be careful, as lots of the turbo 6.5's are center turbos. While that will work, the heads and manifolds are different. So putting one in a truck with a sidemount turbo requires extra work and parts. Plus I would think they led a harder life, but with surplus stuff, its hard to say where its been or what happened.

My engine was from a NA Hummer. It had 24 volt glow plugs and all the electrical stuff (oil press switch, etc) was different to our trucks. There are a few things you should be aware of. The oil pan and oil pump pickup are different and will need to be changed. The parts from your truck will swap over. My block had oil squirters, but all but the main bearings were not drilled for the oil squirters except for the last two cylinders. It had a low volume oil pump. I installed oil squirter main bearings and a high volume oil pump. It was a mechanical injection pump engine, so it did not have a crank sensor. However, the timing cover had the holes for the crank sensor, I just had to knock out a plug. It also had the reluctor type timing chain gear and the matching damper. So no problems there. The water pump was completely different. It was set up for 4 V belts and had a hydraulic fan clutch. The backplate was also different. So you will need the complete water pump assembly from your old engine and the serpentine crank pulley as well. Of course the intake and exhaust manifolds will need to be changed. It had a mechanical fuel pump, so that has to be removed and the turbo oil drain installed in its place. Another difference, being it was an NA engine, the precups had smaller openings than the turbo engines. I sold my heads and bought new turbo heads, but you could just change the precups or even keep them if you are not going crazy with the fueling. One other thing I found odd, it did not have a block heater, just regular freeze plugs.

I think a surplus engine would make a good starting point. My engine was a little unusual (I think anyway). Best I can tell, it was a new engine that never got installed. Everything inside was virtually new, it may have been test run, but that is it. However, a couple of the cylinders on one side were rusty and one had some pitting. Best I can tell, the engine somehow had water intrusion into it before it was installed and so was sold for surplus. I had to have it bored .020 to clean up the pitting, but other than that, it was good to go. It was an AMG engine, made in 2007. I bought it from a guy that got it at an auction at Warner Robbins, GA.
 
Oh, my 6.2 was early 80's with the old CDR on the oil fill. I am DB2 factory so my swap was simple and allowed the use of the 6.2 DB2 pump. I had to retime the IP for the 6.5 injectors. DS4 users would have to swap the pump on a 6.2.

6.5's are not test run by Boyce due to their lack of electronics to start them. Another reason I went old school 6.2 - ran before they shipped it.
 
Bobbie -

Thanks for the great info! Your article on 'Rebuilding a GEP Engine'

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?20029-Rebuilding-a-GEP-Engine

is saved in my favorites! It's a real help to know what to look out for and how to deal with it. Thanks again for taking the time to share the knowledge! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Matt Bachand said:
Almost makes ya wish they just went straight to the turbo instead of the 6.5 overbore first.
Click to expand...

Missy Good Wench said:
The little K5 with the "C" engine rating of 130HP was no ball of fire but got great mileage and gave good long service.

The addition of the Banks turbo kit was a real boost to the anemic little 6.2 and they still seemed to live a long time.
Click to expand...

Ya know, I keep coming back to this very idea as I look at repower options for my dually. A military surplus engine with good 6.5 heads, manifolds and the DS4 pump. People talk about a power loss, but with my GL4 chip and 12# of boost, what exactly are we talking about? Seems to me, I'd have a stronger motor that literally drops right in. :thumbsup:
 
Out on the left coast, there are some interesting deals coming up:
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=3648586
However, notice that all the pics for the different auctions from this base, are identical. Several military bases do this - use one or two 'representative photos' to illustrate all auctions of that specific engine. :nonod: Makes it pretty difficult to gauge what you're actually bidding on. :mad2:

In Kansas, they're holding a 'two-fer':
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=3638075
Sometimes the base surplus area decides to move these in batches. It's a great opportunity, if you have the space for 'residue'. :D

At Fort Meade, this engine was overhauled 3 and a half years ago. Looks mighty clean; prolly not much use since the OH.
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=3648490

Another two-fer going on in Mechanicsburg, PA. This lot includes a GEP motor. :eek:
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=3664112

Also keep in mind that the engine containers weigh around 500# and a bare engine weighs 650#. So you're looking at 1100 - 1200 pounds for each engine/container.
 
Go over to Steel Soldiers. Lots of good info on buying from GL. I would not consider them a competing forum as they are pretty specialized but I am not sure posting a link to them is allowed. It's is very easy to find in Google.
 
Dave Barbieri said:
Ya know, I keep coming back to this very idea as I look at repower options for my dually. A military surplus engine with good 6.5 heads, manifolds and the DS4 pump. People talk about a power loss, but with my GL4 chip and 12# of boost, what exactly are we talking about? Seems to me, I'd have a stronger motor that literally drops right in. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Due to precups only...
Full load 28' trailer was a 3 MPH difference at ~ 65 MPH between a 6.5 and a 6.2 on a good hill. MPG was within 0.5 MPG not a measurable difference. Smokes a little more at WOT. This is 3 bar 6.2 mil spec cups vs. the 6.5 T cups.

I used the 6.2 heads as my 6.5 heads were cracked. (It took all my funds to get the engine and it put in so new or used heads were not an option. Lots of 6.2/6.5 people are on a small budget.)
I wrapped the turbo manifold in header wrap the newest $50.00 per roll copper type.
The heat shield is tight between the manifold and the injector lines with 6.2 heads. You would have to loosen the manifold to remove the shield or change injectors.

Your DS4 setup would require additional items for the crank sensor that I do not have the experience with yet.
 
I just bought 2 - 6.2s and a trailer for 500.00 and the paper work is easy. They make you fill out an EUC form and after that comes back you fill out another release form. The EUC takes about 90 days and another 7 for the release of item(s). After the first time you purchase something you only have to fill out the release and wait the 7 days. So yes it's a pain if you want it the next day.

The EUC is a back ground check done under the patriot act. [End User Certificate].


The release is the only one you have to fill out every time you buy something, and yes, min. bid is 150.00. And I paid 170.00 apiece for the engines.

There is also a 10% commision fee on all purchases.

If someone could pm me and tell me how to post pics I will.
 
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