Merlin SHO IP

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

Just looking around at heathdiesel.com, and came across the stage 3 performance kit. It mentions a "Merlin SHO Injection Pump" and he says for $6580 you can have 415hp/750ft lbs. Stage 3 Kit
Well that got me wondering about these Merlin IP's, I came across merlindiesel.com, Not sure if even related to what he mentions, but they do list db2's db4's and ds4's here http://www.merlindiesel.com/media/NEW-PUMPS.pdf
Does anybody know anything about these "SHO" Pumps? I already have just about everything on that stage 3 list besides the cam (for more like $2k instead) and I would love to put a h/o pump on this bad boy. I also can't believe he is boasting such big numbers. Could it be that this pump is what's pushing it there? I would love for someone to tell me more if anyone even knows.:thumbsup:

 

[tanman_2006]

I bet those are flywheel #'s w/o a dyno slip. Not that I am saying he HAS to get a dyno# but it would benefit him to be accurate and clear.

There isnt MUCH that can be done to a DS4, mostly tuning.

There is quite a bit of room for improvement in the cams.

 

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

I bet those are flywheel #'s w/o a dyno slip. Not that I am saying he HAS to get a dyno# but it would benefit him to be accurate and clear.

There isnt MUCH that can be done to a DS4, mostly tuning.

There is quite a bit of room for improvement in the cams.

Yea i agree on the numbers.. Heath has always kinda "ricer style" combined #'s anyways. I haven't really heard good things about the cam, but I haven't heard bad things either. Can you elaborate on what's missing from the cam department, or if the heath cam does the job? I also didn't know you couldn't really mod the ds4's, I read about some moose pumps for ford db2's that had bigger plungers/modded rotor cams etc. You couldn't do that to the ds4?

 

[tanman_2006]

Yea i agree on the numbers.. Heath has always kinda "ricer style" combined #'s anyways. I haven't really heard good things about the cam, but I haven't heard bad things either. Can you elaborate on what's missing from the cam department, or if the heath cam does the job? I also didn't know you couldn't really mod the ds4's, I read about some moose pumps for ford db2's that had bigger plungers/modded rotor cams etc. You couldn't do that to the ds4?

They make a GM DB2/DB4 moose too btw. Look at conestoga diesel

The DS4 5068 (odd ball 94) is about as HO as they get. You can get some cam ring work done and EDM'd oversize plunger.

Heaths cams should be ok, there is alot of room for more duration and about .5 lift iirc. paveltoz (I think thats spelled right) has one of the performance cams and red has one of the cams too.

 

[Chevypoor]

My understanding on the cams is mostly the current cam is the same as the 1st NA cam rolled out in the early 80's. With modern technology modern cams have asymmetric lobes as well more aggressive lobe shapes. That current technology as not really been applied to the 6.5 from what I can see. From my experience on the gas motor side a modern grind like say a Comp Cams Xtreme Energy vs say the older Magnum series is about 10- 20hp at peak. However you can run a smaller lobe for better idle and more torque throughout the rpm range. More power and better drive-ability. I imagine that is what Heath has tried to accomplish with his cam.

My understanding is the Merlin pump is what Heath is running on his 500hp land speed racer. I believe all his numbers are flywheel numbers.

Heath use a time to distance calculation for his numbers I believe. I plan to dyno my truck as it currently set up and then install his cam and Super 84 turbo. Might be interesting to compare actual dyno numbers to his mathematical calculations.

 

[tanman_2006]

Might be interesting to compare actual dyno numbers to his mathematical calculations.

I'll be looking foward to that.

 

[Chevypoor]

I love to run my stuff on the rollers... the dyno guy I use is a member of our local car club and gives me a pretty good deal. He was excited last time I spoke to him about running the diesel on the rollers. He has never dynoed a diesel before. We are planning on running my 69 pickup as well. The plan was mid October when the weather is cooler. Hope to have a friend shoot some video and I will hopefully post it shortly after.

The other thing I enjoy is cylinder head porting.... one of these days I am going to hog out some 6.5 heads. The machine shop I use has a flow bench. Might try to get some before and after flow numbers. More ideas than time and money.....

Sorry, no more thread jacking.

The Merlin is an interesting option but Heath wants like 2K for the pump!

tanman_2006 said,

They make a GM DB2/DB4 moose too btw. Look at conestoga diesel

Never heard of the moose pump before. Might have to check out conestoga diesel.

 

[Paveltolz]

Merlin IP: Not sure what he used in the past on the LSR but it certainly will be on there when the truck is ready for next year's (hope, fingers crossed, looking for 4-leaf clovers, praying we don't get rained out) events. Not certain when the Merlin will be available for sale. Neither do I know where nor who is making them. I doubt, given what he has told me though, that they are from Merlin Diesel LTD.
He wanted to put one on my truck as a surprise earlier this month for my Bonneville runs but they weren't ready and we got rained out anyway.:nonod: I currently run the 'new' ULSD DS-4 pump (5521S) but, to get me over the 130mph hump (on the flats) the calculations weren't working out with what the DS-4 delivers, the truck weighs, drag, gears, current tune….

HP Calculations: Time, Distance, rear end ratio, tire size, Final Drive (1:1), Weight, drag coefficient, etc. are some of the factors he uses to determine HP.

Cams: A while back, Bill had discontinued the HP-3 and was selling just two variants, HT#4 Performance and the NA-660. According to the web page, the advertised numbers are at the fly wheel.

Chevypoor, x2 on your Dyno comparisons. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was you that said in the S-84 thread that there was a shop nearby that had installed a Heath cam (or two) and the results were very impressive? Last week I emailed him that "I [had] watched the videos we made last fall (his K2500, two adults (450#), DS-4, GM-8, Cam, performance tune.... 0-60 in 8.5 sec)...made me feel bad."
His response to me: "You wont like the newest package at all, then!" I’m more than positive that’s the Merlin he’s talking about.

 

[great white]

Ahem:

This kit is for 1994 - 2002 C/K Trucks. Heath's Stage 3 Performance Kit puts the engine at 415 HP and 750 Foot Pounds at the flywheel. The kit includes:
Max E Tork Performance PCM / Prom
Super8 Performance Turbo Kit
HT#4 Performance Camshaft
Merlin SHO Injection Pump
4" Exhaust w/ Crossover Pipe
Head Studs
HO Fuel Lifter Pump
HO Bosch Fuel Injectors

With the Stage 3 Performance Kit you will see tremendous improvement in performance without sacraficing any drivability. This kit improves power throughout the entire RPM range and pulls hard through 3800 RPM. You see 200+ HP gain and 290+ Foot Pounds at the flywheel, and will see much improved drivability. ( Assuming healthy injection system ).

So, claimed at the flywheel.

Merlin Diesel is a UK firm. Oddly enough, I've been to their warehouse when I was over there on business trips. While it's certainly possible Bill is importing them, I find it unlikely that is the case. Possible, but unlikely. Merlin Diesel is also a very big firm. They are Stanadyne authorized, but an order such as this is pretty small and probably not worth their time to invest in.

Bill is also very much a "made in USA" type from my limited experiences with him. Merlin kinda doesn't fit that "ethos" either. But now I'm speculating and I don't want to put words in the man's mouth. If he wants to let the info out fine. I also understand perfectly well why he would want to keep some stuff to himself. He is running a business after all....

 

[WarWagon]

Ahem:


So, claimed at the flywheel.

Merlin Diesel is a UK firm. Oddly enough, I've been to their warehouse when I was over there on business trips. While it's certainly possible Bill is importing them, I find it unlikely that is the case. Possible, but unlikely. Merlin Diesel is also a very big firm. They are Stanadyne authorized, but an order such as this is pretty small and probably not worth their time to invest in.

Bill is also very much a "made in USA" type from my limited experiences with him. Merlin kinda doesn't fit that "ethos" either. But now I'm speculating and I don't want to put words in the man's mouth. If he wants to let the info out fine. I also understand perfectly well why he would want to keep some stuff to himself. He is running a business after all....

When you run a business you make sure that your design you sub out the manufacturing of can only be sold through you. Sure the company may make other IP's. In a project I worked on they designed a radiator that fit a specific SUV. No one else could contact the radiator manufacturer used to build it and buy their specific design. They could buy another design from the manufacturer that fit, but, it wasn't to the same specs. Specifically the design the manufacturer offered was electric fan only where the specific design we worked on could use both (factory) clutch or electric fans and several models/kits of electric fans at that. The factory clutch fan didn't have enough room with the other design.

 

[Chevypoor]

Paveltolz, you are correct. However, the information I recieved was butt dyno data, not actual chasis dyno data. I was told by the gentleman that installed the cams that the two customers trucks he had installed the cams into were very satisfied and noticed improved throttle response and power through the operating range.

 

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

I totally missed the part about flywheel hp. That's crazy though, I wouldn't think even the most modded 6.5 could make as much power as a stock LML, and the fact that I may be ATLEAST halfway there is cool as hell. I will definitely be looking into the cam, in the near future. I'm running out of things to do to my engine (syke)
So we've established the Merlin pump exists, but does anyone know what's so special about it? 2k for a brand new IP, with enough fueling to make 415 & 750(+??) at the flywheel, that's worth it IMO. I'd be more than happy to put that on my truck.
Another question, besides the LSR (I've read how it was built), Is heath putting all this stuff on an optimizer or a p400? What about us with the GM block? Can we handle the fuel?
On the other hand, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to send my 95 gm block to the grave.... I would enjoy that actually, but the wife would not

 

[tanman_2006]

I keep thinking my 95's engine will meet the grave one day too but it keeps chuggin.

 

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

I know, right? I just know one day i'm gonna pull out of my driveway and floor it, and i'm gonna have to pick the pieces up off the road

 

[great white]

Well, I'm not so sure I'd want to put that much through a GM casting.

Bill was running a 6.2 block in the LSR, although he's done a couple things to it that probably wouldn't be the best idea on a street driven vehicle. But his was purpose built for the salt so no worries. Not sure what he's cooking up now, haven't talked to him in a long time. That's his business anyways if he wants to make it public.

My 98 is right around stock LB7 numbers at the crank. I haven't had it on an engine dyno but it has been on a chassis dyno quite a bit and a reasonable estimation can be made about how much power the drive train eats up (I'm 271 at the rollers).

But I'm running an Optimizer 6500 (not a takeout) and we've got mucho dyno time in to developing the tune I'm running. I trade some of my stuff for dyno time with a guy I know. He gets to work on stuff he usually doesn't, I get free access to the shop's Dyno Dynamics rig. I drive down, we lie the night away around the campfire or out on the boat about hunting or fishing, we run all the next day (shop is closed), then another night of around the camp fire or on the boat lieing about hunting or fishing. Might be some wobbly pops thrown in there somewhere. Then I drive home the next day.

There might be a few other things besides tuning sprinkled in the mix in my truck too, but that's my own business.



Getting more out of it can be very finicky and we elected to cut our losses at a certain point to maintain fuel mileage (I get 18 combined), towing (8500lb travel trailer, 14 mpg on the flats with no headwind) and overall lifespan of the engine (not spending this much again before I have too).

750 Lbft pounding on a stock GM bottom end.......I dunno.....better have a well seasoned block with no main web cracks to start with.....remember the words "light duty diesel" and "MPG master" when you drop the hammer....

I can't imagine running 750Lb/ft though a stock 4L80E either, at least not for a long time. Last I saw, the factory rating was 440 lb/ft (memory might be slipping on that number a bit though). They're usually a bit conservative, but 750 is a full 310 lbft over that rating.......nearly double. I'm measured at 446 @ 1900 and I'm very cautious about dropping that right foot from a start since my torque curve is more of a torque step, peaking at 1900. I've had it flash a couple times dropping from a dead stop, it let me know it was in no way happy about it. 750 is going to make for a lot of scattered parts methinks.....

Meh, I doubt many of these stage 3 kits will make it out the door anyways. 6.5-ers tend to be a.....<ahem>......"frugal" bunch and tickling 5 grand is a bit of a stretch for most of 'em.

If power were the goal, that 5 grand would be better put in the bank towards a better "base stock" to build from.

I got stuck in the loop because I had no choice and once you're so far down the hole it's easier to just keep diggin' to the other side than climb back out

 

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

Well, I'm not so sure I'd want to put that much through a GM casting.

Bill was running a 6.2 block in the LSR, although he's done a couple things to it that probably wouldn't be the best idea on a street driven vehicle. But his was purpose built for the salt so no worries. Not sure what he's cooking up now, haven't talked to him in a long time. That's his business anyways if he wants to make it public.

My 98 is right around stock LB7 numbers at the crank. I haven't had it on an engine dyno but it has been on a chassis dyno quite a bit and a reasonable estimation can be made about how much power the drive train eats up (I'm 271 at the rollers).

But I'm running an Optimizer 6500 (not a takeout) and we've got mucho dyno time in to developing the tune I'm running. I trade some of my stuff for dyno time with a guy I know. He gets to work on stuff he usually doesn't, I get free access to the shop's Dyno Dynamics rig. I drive down, we lie the night away around the campfire or out on the boat about hunting or fishing, we run all the next day (shop is closed), then another night of around the camp fire or on the boat lieing about hunting or fishing. Might be some wobbly pops thrown in there somewhere. Then I drive home the next day.

There might be a few other things besides tuning sprinkled in the mix in my truck too, but that's my own business.



Getting more out of it can be very finicky and we elected to cut our losses at a certain point to maintain fuel mileage (I get 18 combined), towing (8500lb travel trailer, 14 mpg on the flats with no headwind) and overall lifespan of the engine (not spending this much again before I have too).

750 Lbft pounding on a stock GM bottom end.......I dunno.....better have a well seasoned block with no main web cracks to start with.....remember the words "light duty diesel" and "MPG master" when you drop the hammer....

I can't imagine running 750Lb/ft though a stock 4L80E either, at least not for a long time. Last I saw, the factory rating was 440 lb/ft (memory might be slipping on that number a bit though). They're usually a bit conservative, but 750 is a full 310 lbft over that rating.......nearly double. I'm measured at 446 @ 1900 and I'm very cautious about dropping that right foot from a start since my torque curve is more of a torque step, peaking at 1900. I've had it flash a couple times dropping from a dead stop, it let me know it was in no way happy about it. 750 is going to make for a lot of scattered parts methinks.....

Meh, I doubt many of these stage 3 kits will make it out the door anyways. 6.5-ers tend to be a.....<ahem>......"frugal" bunch and tickling 5 grand is a bit of a stretch for most of 'em.

If power were the goal, that 5 grand would be better put in the bank towards a better "base stock" to build from.

I got stuck in the loop because I had no choice and once you're so far down the hole it's easier to just keep diggin' to the other side than climb back out

Thanks for the insight GW. I'm new to 6.5's, always drove a chevy though, just a gas engine one.
Let's just say I'm testing the waters...
Honestly I really don't care if I blow the bottom end out of this engine, a hummer take-out is just a phone call away, and cheap as hell at that.
This is in "S" vin engine, as far as I can tell, it's the original one. The heads were replaced with brand new ones @ ~120k (before i bought it, thank God for the PO having some sense, and keeping a maintenance record, I wouldn't know what I have otherwise.)
I've heard so many horror stories, blah blah blah, but the point is I have ~270k on an "s" and I run the dog shit out of it every single day. Don't even get me started on the hell i have brought into this truck's life lol I have literally been just waiting for the whole thing to go kaboom. But it hasn't. I have no blow-by, oil pressure's great, she's like the energizer bunny on crack cocaine lol. I'm just pushing the limits of this GM casting, just like I push all my vehicles. You don't really know what you got until you do. Ask my wife what she thought of me pushing our 4.6 N* STS one word "terrified" lol
Plus it helps to know that just about everything i've paid for on this engine can be salvaged and installed on another.
I don't tow, this is just a vehicle that I feel like i've took from an absolute lemon (the first time i drove it, it was such a dog. Crossing the Mississippi river from vidalia, la to natchez, ms 55-60 mph is all i got and i had it floored, doin 35 when i started on the bridge. DOG) now 2k later it's something that is very fun to drive, unstoppable in 4wd, and I have alot of fun shittin on guys who drive 350's who think they got something cause they have a cold air intake and a freakin throttle body spacer.
I'm as proud as they get of my 6.5, but i'm just power hungry, and too cheap to get a loan for a duramax :hihi:

 

[tanman_2006]

My 95 has only gotten the parts it absolutely needed. The amsoil dual bypass was just economical with the miles I drive. I've beat on it for 150k and only put 1500 into it including front end parts and rear leafs. When we need to get across a mud hole or through a snow bank on the farm the 95 takes it with stride.

The only limits I plan to push with this truck are mpg and how many miles the bottom end and ip will last. IP is tired at 294k but still going. I have a 99 506 block that was nearly identical in miles dropped in by the po. His records don't show an ip and it shows which nuts got lost in the engine swap.

The truck is my do everything dd and I couldn't ask for a better one.

Source Unknown

 

[6.5L]

Regarding the Moose, I have been e-mailing them and they make a version for our trucks but it is the Moose Junior. I am trying to get a solid answer of weather I can get the big daddy from them. At a reasonable price too, so job permitting if I can, I will be gladly dropping a new Moose in next summer if I can get the Full version. Go big or go home right?

 

[tanman_2006]

They CAN go all out (as far as db2 can go). I get my injectors rebuilt from them and would get a pump from them if needed. Their biggest following is ford idi so GM developement is slow.

Also look for chevydiesel on here, he is the one with the 82 short wide 6.5L drag truck. He builds pumps.

 

[bigdaddyinacaddy]

Regarding the Moose, I have been e-mailing them and they make a version for our trucks but it is the Moose Junior. I am trying to get a solid answer of weather I can get the big daddy from them. At a reasonable price too, so job permitting if I can, I will be gladly dropping a new Moose in next summer if I can get the Full version. Go big or go home right?

Exactly. I would love to ditch the computer stuff, my pmd/electrical system has given me problems from day one. So far I've replaced the alternator and both batteries, and the pmd extension. And now the short pmd cable is fried. I keep melting pins, can't figure out why. It's like there's too much resistance in the extension, even though it's brand new.
The only thing I like about the ds4 is the timing is controlled by the computer, but I'm not even sure if I did switch to mechanical that flows more fuel, if I would even notice the difference. I do enjoy the convenience of the computer for diagnosing problems. The check engine light is a pretty handy. But if I were to eventually put some tractor tires and military axles under it like I want to I wouldn't want a computer controlled pump. I've seen videos of 6.5 powered h1's with snorkels crossing rivers and all kinds of craziness. Not that I'm trying to do all that but I'm probably eventually gonna get a duramax and i'd really love a toy to dink around in on the weekends. Swamp+oilfield= unbelievable backroad networking. We have a lot of fun down here man. Look up Louisiana mudfest on YouTube that's about 30 miles from me.

Also look for chevydiesel on here, he is the one with the 82 short wide 6.5L drag truck. He builds pumps.

Is this the guy with the white c10? That truck is quick I watched a video of it smoking an Lbz.