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Lift pump

FellowTraveler said:
Suspect it is more about less sulfur in the fuels these days then adding bio to the mix at the pump. When I took to using 2 stroke oil in the diesel the lift pumps lasted many years just a thought.
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I always add 2 stroke oil every time I get fuel. I do close to a 1:1 (1 gallon of diesel to 1 oz. 2 stroke oil) ratio most times because I have never had a problem with it affect the OS
 
WarWagon said:
You have that DS4 mess otherwise I would send you the "classic" FRB-5 Walbro PSI rated for a DB2 off Patch . It 8 years of use outlived the truck and a few engines... I used a single "grade 8" 1/4" bolt to hold the Walbro to the frame with an existing hole at an angle.

OEM's are using in tank lift pumps now and some around 50 PSI. Yeah, with my luck on lift pumps (looking at Fass and Airdog's reputation no longer bulletproof ) I considered via attempting to install a belt drive oil pump style lift pump, but, it wouldn't fit the larger 6.7 damper and fan on my 5.9.

A Carter with the fuel cooled motor I tried didn't last long on biodiesel. Made funny noise before the weekly oil change and fuel PSI test could catch it dead.

A call to Walbro to verify specs on a FRB-11 may help. Their number is here as well as a past discussion on rated life of their models being ~50% less on some.

Walbro FRC-10

My FRC-10 gave up the ghost and I'm having a hard time finding a replacement that isn't special order with a long lead time. Does anybody know of a place? I don't run the truck alot so not real keen on spending a bunch of money on an entire new(insert brand here) setup.
www.thetruckstop.us
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I remember that thread now that you posted that link. Ill try and see how it’s working out for him.
 
Will L. said:
The ever loved AC Delco EP158 or the airtex E3158 (see what they did with the numbers there?) If you look at the sticker made to cover the logo, and the dimpling in the case, it becomes easier to to ID which pump is being relabeled by folks. When a few of us got together and did comparison tests of the 4 different Delcos, 2 airtex, and places relabeling like Predator and such- the ep158 as hands down winner-

Problem is yours lasting this long and still having full pressure (do you have a live gauge you read while driving down the road?) is rare. There are 1994 pickups with the factory PMD and a couple hundred thousand miles on it. Be happy yours is the exception to the rule not the norm. Oh, and if superstitions, go knock some wood, do 3 circles around the truck, or what have you so this doesn’t jinx it.

And remember, making noise doesn’t mean it’s working. Only a pressure gauge tells you the ip isn’t being worn out too fast. Until one day hard starting begins and you then are a gauge and think my lift pump must have just now went bad. Change it and it starts easier. Then soon afterwards the hard starts come back and a good lift pump isn’t enough to get over the hump...
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Im with you Will. I think it’s a rebadged EP158
 
I always had, what I thought was excellent longevity out of the EP158.

I have been running B11 since the 1990's sometime - whenever we could get it delivered to the house. I also have 2 micron filters on my storage tanks.

Has anybody looked at AFE's 1 micron filter/water/air trap / lift pump? I am actually thinking about putting one of these on the 2016 Ford

For some reason I have always had an aversion to anything labeled AFE.

Not sure why. I always associated that label with kids that put shiny stuff on their vehicles to make them go faster

afepower.com

DFS780 - Diesel Fuel System - Fuel Pumps - Lift Pumps | aFe POWER

afepower.com afepower.com
 
Need to find specs to that filter. “Down to 1 micron” sounds misleading to me like that can filter some of the material down to one. Not ALL the fuel gets cleaned to 1 micron. The legal term matters here. ABSOLUTE is the key word you are looking for.

I am with you in afe. It isn’t that everything they make is junk, it’s that it runs on gimmick often.
 
jrsavoie said:
I always had, what I thought was excellent longevity out of the EP158.

I have been running B11 since the 1990's sometime - whenever we could get it delivered to the house. I also have 2 micron filters on my storage tanks.

Has anybody looked at AFE's 1 micron filter/water/air trap / lift pump? I am actually thinking about putting one of these on the 2016 Ford

For some reason I have always had an aversion to anything labeled AFE.

Not sure why. I always associated that label with kids that put shiny stuff on their vehicles to make them go faster

afepower.com

DFS780 - Diesel Fuel System - Fuel Pumps - Lift Pumps | aFe POWER

afepower.com afepower.com
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Thats to pricey for me right now but it is a good looking pump. I would go with the MAX if I ever bought one though. I’d get rid of the key chain looking thing that all the kids have hanging out of their pockets nowadays so it don’t catch on anything and so I didn’t dump all my fuel while driving through the woods or the pastures around the house.

I noticed it said bronze gears in it. Are most of the gear driven pumps bronze gears?
 
Curious what's wrong with the FRB-5 for the DS4 pump trucks? Maybe it's a redesign but the specs on Walbro's site have it at a higher GPH and PSI than the "more correct" pump models. 45 GPH and 8-11psi for the FRB-5.

Going through the same debate right now since my lift pump just died on the 3500hd. Spend the roughly $750 for the airdog (with electrical relay mod), a medium level pump like the Walbro, or dig through my spare parts stuff and find the raptor 150 that's buried in the pile (was used on my deuce and a half, so been sitting for 4+ years now).
 
@red
They must have re rated it. The Db2 is 4-8 psi and ds4 is 8-14. The frb5 was always 8 max and the frb10 was rated 15 max.
They made changes in their build materials and the frb10 went from ok to junk. So it makes sense they would revamp.
 
After 3 Walbro FRC-10 pumps in 5 years, I won't buy another. My problem with stock lift pumps was after doing the feed the beast mod it would pull down to a vacuum when I pulled grades with my trailer. I tried a AC delco pump for 99-00. I tried the 93 AC delco, the 93 Airtex. All of them went to a vacuum towing or even just hard acceleration. So I went to my first Walbro and it was able to keep up with demand. But the failure rate of them was really bad. So far this has been the best pump I have run pressure wise. It keeps 10 PSI all the time. So as long as it lasts longer, I'll be happy. And Delphi is saying lifetime warranty. So it shouldn't cost me anything when it does fail.
 

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Red hit the big one with duty cycle.

Definitely would need a regulator with its own return line or electrically control the speed to produce proper pressure. Keep in mind they are saying that pressure and flow with motor oil but not specifying what grade.

IF that is from a supplier you can return it to within a year for $ back, could be worth it.

I would suggest a bypass line with one way check valve so if you are driving and it dies your engine doesn’t shut off in a dangerous situation like cross traffic that doesn’t stop or loosing power steering and power brakes on the freeway especially if tow
 
I have not figured out which way I’m going to go yet on the lift pump. I’ve been dealing with septic tank problems for a couple days so searching for lift pumps has been at the back of my mind. So far I’m thinking about going with the Delphi HFP 953.
 
I wouldn’t. When me and a few guys did the lp testing that was in the running. The AC Delco EP 158 beat it in longevity of maintaining pressure longer, and longer overall life- it was by about 20% iirc. So if you get a smokin deal on one, ok. But usually that one is more expensive.
 
Will L. said:
I wouldn’t. When me and a few guys did the lp testing that was in the running. The AC Delco EP 158 beat it in longevity of maintaining pressure longer, and longer overall life- it was by about 20% iirc. So if you get a smokin deal on one, ok. But usually that one is more expensive.
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Issue for me with that pump was not even holding a positive pressure under load when it was new. It was 1 of the pumps pulling down to a vacuum when towing when it was new. I didn't like that, so I returned it.
 
red said:
Curious what's wrong with the FRB-5 for the DS4 pump trucks? Maybe it's a redesign but the specs on Walbro's site have it at a higher GPH and PSI than the "more correct" pump models. 45 GPH and 8-11psi for the FRB-5.

Going through the same debate right now since my lift pump just died on the 3500hd. Spend the roughly $750 for the airdog (with electrical relay mod), a medium level pump like the Walbro, or dig through my spare parts stuff and find the raptor 150 that's buried in the pile (was used on my deuce and a half, so been sitting for 4+ years now).
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I always had higher "static" pressure with the FRB-5. As it's a plunger pump when it fires the coil to move the plunger the pressure is momentarily a vacuum. Not something a dampened gauge can show. At MAX RPM when the IP is returning massive fuel is where the pressure would drop. It was not the pump builder's choice for the Moose pump, but, a Holley pump they recommended to me IMO had trouble written all over it.

After spending some coin on a Mallory race pump that was rated for alcohol I had the seal fail and then the brush life was less than 20K miles. The pump was working hard fighting the restrictive fuel system and really needed a variable speed done like some have shown us how to do.

I would look hard at the FRB series vs. the lower life FRC series. @1999gmc isn't the only one who had short life (electronics failure) with the FRC-10. IMO that had some sort of design or quality problem firing the coil on a timer vs. FRB's on demand.

Today's diesel fuel has Biodiesel in it. This means there is trace amounts of Meth (alcohol) in it from the biodiesel process. This will ruin fuel cooled motors esp screwing up any yellow metal bearings, eat seals that are not compatible, eat valves that are not compatible, etc. Some lift pumps void the warranty for alcohol use: That's a clear sign it should not be going on your diesel truck. Yeah manufacturers are running an old design and haven't updated it for the "NEW" biodiesel laced diesel fuel we have to put up with now. Nothing we can do about it except buy parts that are more compatible with Modern Diesel Fuel that's 5%-20% Bio at the pump.

Despite the failures others have seen I still recommend Walbro as an inexpensive Biodiesel compatible pump. Because they lasted me way longer than the horrible short life of anything else I could get my hands on. This includes corrosive bug laced B99. Well I had to scrap one Walbro and rebuild the other one with the ruined fuel system(s) from that. I already tried the Carter pump before Leroy sold it and it's in the graveyard with a very short life. It made noise and lost pressure, but, saved me a tow bill by not locking up. Running commercial the warranty can be very short.

The ultimate lift pump would be moving the turbo drain and going alcohol rated mechanical off the cam or a belt drive mechanical. Otherwise in tank lift pumps like OEM's went to and we know how bad the life of them was on GM gassers in the 90's...
 
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So about a year ago on one of my summit racing visits, on an impulse bought a Carter P4601HP. My thoughts are yes some have complained about them failing on diesel.

But - years ago I came across a forum (don't know which one) were a member stated he thought his Carter pump failed. He got a freebie warranty replacement, so he opened the 1st one up to find a plugged up SS filter screen on the inlet side. Cleaned it and found the pump was actually fine.

So perhaps those who thought their Carter pumps got noisy & failed, maybe suffered from the condition? Apparently said screen is somewhat easily removed.

The P4601HP is diesel rated, flow-on-fail, 18psi max, 6-9.5psi @ 50gph. Now I installed a large baldwin pre-pump water separator/50u Filter, and a 7u absolute donaldson filter before the DS4. The leaky pos oem FMS got deposited into the round-file!

So when I get around to installing this Carter, I plan on regulating the idle pressure via an adjustable pwm buck voltage regulator. Set point of say 10psi at idle at the discharge port of the 2nd filter. The discharge port of the 2nd filter will also have a 8psi low pressure switch. Said switch will trigger a dc-dc SSR that will bypass the voltage regulator, thus allowing max available lift-pump pressure.

I don't plan to run any more bio than the 10-15% already mixed into pump #2. So I feel somewhat confident that this Carter should last awhile. If and when I get around to installing it.
 
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