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I've decided to do a Cummin's conversion

ONLY FORD had a left hand drivers side drop dana 60 with king pins, NOBODY else. GM & DODGE both used right hand passenger side drop dana 60's with king pins. DODGE switched to left hand drop in 94, but went to ball joints and coil springs with 4 links, and it is said leaf springs cannot work unless you run a good bit of lift or reverse arch springs because of how close the pumpkin is to the knuckle. And as to FORD, 77.5-79 F350's and a SELECT few F250's with camper package and snowplow prep had the dana 60 with 32" wide spring perches. Then they didn't have a front solid dana 60 again until 85/86 which was identical to the earlier axle except it had the spring perches at 36" wide by moving the pumpkin 2 inches over. Then mid year 91 they switched from king pins to ball joints. Many insist on having king pins because they are easily rebuildable and some say stronger, but theres many tests that say ball joints are actually slightly stronger, and you can get rebuildable ball joints to go in them which makes them stronger than king pins. The downside to the Ford axle is they used low steering, but if you use a king pin axle, you can easily convert it to a high steer axle.

If it was mine, I would be swapping in the 05+ Ford axles. Front coil springs, radius arms, track bar to center the axle, easily retain abs, and MASSIVE brakes.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
ONLY FORD had a left hand drivers side drop dana 60 with king pins, NOBODY else. GM & DODGE both used right hand passenger side drop dana 60's with king pins. DODGE switched to left hand drop in 94, but went to ball joints and coil springs with 4 links, and it is said leaf springs cannot work unless you run a good bit of lift or reverse arch springs because of how close the pumpkin is to the knuckle. And as to FORD, 77.5-79 F350's and a SELECT few F250's with camper package and snowplow prep had the dana 60 with 32" wide spring perches. Then they didn't have a front solid dana 60 again until 85/86 which was identical to the earlier axle except it had the spring perches at 36" wide by moving the pumpkin 2 inches over. Then mid year 91 they switched from king pins to ball joints. Many insist on having king pins because they are easily rebuildable and some say stronger, but theres many tests that say ball joints are actually slightly stronger, and you can get rebuildable ball joints to go in them which makes them stronger than king pins. The downside to the Ford axle is they used low steering, but if you use a king pin axle, you can easily convert it to a high steer axle.

If it was mine, I would be swapping in the 05+ Ford axles. Front coil springs, radius arms, track bar to center the axle, easily retain abs, and MASSIVE brakes.
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As always FERM, IMO you are beyond informative and I thank you for that.

I'm not in a rush now ah days and will start to look at the 05+ FORDS too, I did see a newer F400/500 10 lug setup on CL but suspect that would be a bit much for my project. I do see some aftermarket coil buckets for project fabrication, I'd have to study the newer FORD setup to get a better understanding of it and how much of a project it is to do. Perhaps, a complete rolling F350 chassis is the best option for the brackets too, just not sure about that.

Am I right that the 3/4 ton DANA 44 is way stronger than a GM pass/drop 3/4 ton 10 bolt?
 
UPDATE UNMODIFIED GM NP241C CLOCKING ON DODGE 4X4 TAILHOUSING WITH VERY LITTLE MODIFICATION TO TAILHOUSING & NO CLOCKING RING

I have spent much time researching the NP241C t-case and adapting it to a 47RH 4x4 O/D tail housing well I found some Jeep & Dodge guys who convert to the NP241C without any clocking rings or adapters.

What I found was that 5 of the 6 bolts lineup in the offset bolt patterns between Dodge & GM thread connecting the GM t-case and the Dodge 4x4 housing when the case is clocked correctly to the tail housing the sixth hole on the Dodge tail housing is then elongated to match the GM t-case “the area that is elongated has more than enough material to handle the mod.”

I have disassembled the NP241C and set it up clocked correctly on the Dodge 4x4 housing then inserted the input shaft from inside the open t-case “it slid into Dodge 4x4 housing w/o any issue meaning it is centered.”

DSCI0001.JPG DSCI0004.JPG DSCI0007.JPG DSCI0009.JPG DSCI0008.JPG DSCI0001.JPG DSCI0004.JPG DSCI0007.JPG DSCI0009.JPG DSCI0008.JPG
 
So that sixth hole that just misses, drill it out to mount the bolt and your good to go looks like to me.
The new hole is more to the middle of the flange anyways, not loser to the edge.

Even the rotational force goes away from the onblonged part of the hole. No worries.
 
Will L. said:
So that sixth hole that just misses, drill it out to mount the bolt and your good to go looks like to me.
The new hole is more to the middle of the flange anyways, not loser to the edge.

Even the rotational force goes away from the oblonged part of the hole. No worries.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and all the worry before for nothing, the case is slightly up from where it would be normally but that gives more clearance.

That 4x4 unit carries a NP241DHD which is a heavy t-case if used I'd have to mod the fixed x-member so a good NP241C w/6 pinion setup will suffice.
 
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Heres somebody selling a complete front and rear setup. The front is the dana 60 super, and the rear is the ford sterling 10.5". They have massive brakes stock on them so you have to use 17" or bigger rims to clear them. But this is the setup all the early super duty guys are going to, and the duramax guys are swapping in. By doing both axles, the different 8x170mm lug pattern isn't a big deal, or you can modify the front to take 8x6.5 wheels.
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/pts/d/2006-ford-f350-superduty-coil/6261693617.html
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Heres somebody selling a complete front and rear setup. The front is the dana 60 super, and the rear is the ford sterling 10.5". They have massive brakes stock on them so you have to use 17" or bigger rims to clear them. But this is the setup all the early super duty guys are going to, and the duramax guys are swapping in. By doing both axles, the different 8x170mm lug pattern isn't a big deal, or you can modify the front to take 8x6.5 wheels.
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/pts/d/2006-ford-f350-superduty-coil/6261693617.html
Click to expand...
WOW! That is a find, I've been searching on CL and somehow missed that one, thanks.
 
FellowTraveler said:
WOW! That is a find, I've been searching on CL and somehow missed that one, thanks.
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Theres a complete rolling chassis in clearwater and another in hollywood for $1500. If I was to do a solid axle swap, the newer axle with traili,g arms would get my vote. It's like others have said, you're starting with an axle nearly 30 years newer, the better ride and handling of the trailing arm coil spring arrangement, and even with the cost of rebuildable HD ball joints and rebuildable hubs, it's still priced close to what people want for the old leaf sprung axle. And you get huge brakes, retain abs, and can find parts for them at any parts store on the shelf.

Also, for doing the sfa, you can use a gen 2 dodge pitman arm since they used the same steering box as our's, and I would swap 9n a dodge front output yoke on your transfer case as the cv joint is alot better than the single cardan that GM used.
 
ak diesel driver said:
Are you heading for high ground yet?
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There is no high ground in Florida, best be headed out to Charlottesville, NC or somewhere else that's far inland, above 1000' altitude and out of any projected storm path. Irma is even bigger and more powerful than Harvey with a storm surge already measured at over 20' - which is higher than any of the Keys are above Sea Level or most of southern Florida. The surge will travel 10-15 miles inland. Current best estimate shows the eye tracking between Cuba and the Keys and then up the west coast of Florida. If it tracks north of that instead and the eye hits into the Everglades, Miami will be obliterated.
 
One can't even get out of town on a Holiday weekend let alone an evacuation. :muted: Hope he has a boat. The past weekend the freeways were plugged solid for miles just for the holidays here and I recall the last evacuation disasters on the roads... o_O
 
Husker6.5 said:
There is no high ground in Florida, best be headed out to Charlottesville, NC or somewhere else that's far inland, above 1000' altitude and out of any projected storm path. Irma is even bigger and more powerful than Harvey with a storm surge already measured at over 20' - which is higher than any of the Keys are above Sea Level or most of southern Florida. The surge will travel 10-15 miles inland. Current best estimate shows the eye tracking between Cuba and the Keys and then up the west coast of Florida. If it tracks north of that instead and the eye hits into the Everglades, Miami will be obliterated.
Click to expand...
Florida is only supposed to see 3-5 feet of storm surge with 8 feet being the highest based on the current forecast's. The turks and such were on the trailing side where the wind is pushing the water, that's why they got so much storm surge. We won't see half that unlesd it goes into the Gulf and turns inland.
 
Jaryd said:
Hey @FellowTraveler how is the swap going. We ain’t heard from you since the hurricane come through. Hope everything is good your way.
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Hey everyone I hope all is well with everyone and I wish all of you a Happy New Year.

As for me and my conversion; well it’s been one thing after another then the old guy ailments too boot and yes little things not planned for with this Cummins conversion but I’ve been slowly getting past it all.

I’m redoing some items like the cooling fan location which was OK with the two core radiator but not with a 3 core one so I’ll be using a fan bracket from the 91.5 to 93 CAC equipped 1st gen Cummins which move the fan up just a little to the left of where it is now and almost kissing the front of the diesel so lots of space will be the result between radiator and fan blades.

A rehash of a little old news; I had confused the length of the Ram Cummins 47RH & 47RE transmission 4x4 case lengths which are much different and thought I was using the 47RE’s shorter 4x4 case when I was in fact using the longer 47RH 4x4 case which put the transfer case squarely in the area occupied by the IFS cross member moving the x-member forward or back will not work in this case which requires my having to either spend $$$$ on a 6” IFS lift so cross member is dropped enough to clear t-case or go to an SAS eliminating the IFS all together for transfer case clearance. After doing the math I concluded the SAS was by far money best spent.

The aftermarket intake runner I had powder coated did not work because it was sitting too high for hood to close so off with it and on with the stock intake runner.

The 1st gen Ram Cummins 2wd ceramic coated 4” downpipe fits great with the OEM or aftermarket center outlet exhaust manifold however it will not work on other types of exhaust manifolds. This downpipe makes using the stock Dodge dipstick tube impossible so a flex tube is needed for this conversion. Images below show the clearance of the downpipe notice how it is curved towards the front and around the heater core pipes

DSCI0001.JPG DSCI0002.JPG DSCI0004.JPG DSCI0005.JPG DSCI0007.JPG DSCI0005.JPG

Then the transmission OD/LU controller (COMPUSHIFT MINI) pressure sensor sits dangerously close to the downpipe requiring a right angled fitting some copper tub and bracket to relocate it.

The Ram Cummins 6bt diesel has a torque converter heat exchanger (tube & shell) attached to the block on passenger side mine was old and using it was a gamble I was not willing to take so I removed it only to find that a new one would be around $800. In the end I bought a new (tube & shell) stainless 85k BTU capacity unit for $90 delivered and I’m mounting it on the chassis rail.

The Dodge transmission fluid line had a check valve which is known to fail closed & stop flow destroying the transmission so that was removed then there was flow issues at idle and that was corrected with the TransGo valve body kit. I Heli coiled all the transmission pan bolt holes and used Nord lock washers on each one then torqued to spec so they will never back out on their own.

I’ve read somewhere that the Suburban’s auto HVAC will not function w/o a crank signal but suspect it has to do with increasing the engine idle when the AC is on in a drive by wire application but I just don’t know yet.

I’ve been toying with the idea of a spring powered starter for my build making it a true bug out build not relying on batteries to start.
 
FellowTraveler said:
Hey everyone I hope all is well with everyone and I wish all of you a Happy New Year.

As for me and my conversion; well it’s been one thing after another then the old guy ailments too boot and yes little things not planned for with this Cummins conversion but I’ve been slowly getting past it all.

I’m redoing some items like the cooling fan location which was OK with the two core radiator but not with a 3 core one so I’ll be using a fan bracket from the 91.5 to 93 CAC equipped 1st gen Cummins which move the fan up just a little to the left of where it is now and almost kissing the front of the diesel so lots of space will be the result between radiator and fan blades.

A rehash of a little old news; I had confused the length of the Ram Cummins 47RH & 47RE transmission 4x4 case lengths which are much different and thought I was using the 47RE’s shorter 4x4 case when I was in fact using the longer 47RH 4x4 case which put the transfer case squarely in the area occupied by the IFS cross member moving the x-member forward or back will not work in this case which requires my having to either spend $$$$ on a 6” IFS lift so cross member is dropped enough to clear t-case or go to an SAS eliminating the IFS all together for transfer case clearance. After doing the math I concluded the SAS was by far money best spent.

The aftermarket intake runner I had powder coated did not work because it was sitting too high for hood to close so off with it and on with the stock intake runner.

The 1st gen Ram Cummins 2wd ceramic coated 4” downpipe fits great with the OEM or aftermarket center outlet exhaust manifold however it will not work on other types of exhaust manifolds. This downpipe makes using the stock Dodge dipstick tube impossible so a flex tube is needed for this conversion. Images below show the clearance of the downpipe notice how it is curved towards the front and around the heater core pipes

View attachment 51489 View attachment 51490 View attachment 51491 View attachment 51492 View attachment 51493 View attachment 51494

Then the transmission OD/LU controller (COMPUSHIFT MINI) pressure sensor sits dangerously close to the downpipe requiring a right angled fitting some copper tub and bracket to relocate it.

The Ram Cummins 6bt diesel has a torque converter heat exchanger (tube & shell) attached to the block on passenger side mine was old and using it was a gamble I was not willing to take so I removed it only to find that a new one would be around $800. In the end I bought a new (tube & shell) stainless 85k BTU capacity unit for $90 delivered and I’m mounting it on the chassis rail.

The Dodge transmission fluid line had a check valve which is known to fail closed & stop flow destroying the transmission so that was removed then there was flow issues at idle and that was corrected with the TransGo valve body kit. I Heli coiled all the transmission pan bolt holes and used Nord lock washers on each one then torqued to spec so they will never back out on their own.

I’ve read somewhere that the Suburban’s auto HVAC will not function w/o a crank signal but suspect it has to do with increasing the engine idle when the AC is on in a drive by wire application but I just don’t know yet.

I’ve been toying with the idea of a spring powered starter for my build making it a true bug out build not relying on batteries to start.
Click to expand...
Good to hear you’re still kickin’. Happy New Year.
 
Sounds cool so far.

I question the starter change because how does that trans operate without power? Local emp strong enough to take it out will bring down the trans capabilities. You need a stick shift if serious.

Spring starters have shorter life and more cost, usually less performance.

Spare normal starter and spare alternator in a metal ammo box as a faraday cage makes more sense. Then you have spares for normal break down nonzombie days. IMO a key to prepping is stock normal use items that in the end save you $ regardless of zombies, not cost more.
 
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