Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
I'll be driving through Boise on NOV 7th and 12th. If you're going to be available, let me know and I'll swing by.
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Intake Mod, other project or two and finally, the ATT.
- Thread starter Paveltolz
- Start date
I'll be driving through Boise on NOV 7th and 12th. If you're going to be available, let me know and I'll swing by.
DieselSlug
Well-Known Member
I threw mine out when i got the new one.... shouldnt have...
Veg_Out
Walking J Designs
Deal!
Veg_Out
Walking J Designs
So Paveltolz pulled in to Boise in the sweetest 1/2 ton extended cab 6.5 I've ever seen. Those hood openings on his truck were warm to the touch but the entire hood was cool. Amazing. His motor was clean enough to eat from, and it's for sure the sweetest setup I've seen. He just had Bill Heath tune for his A Team and that thing kicks major behind. Smooth, whistley goodness with very little smoke. Well done Bill!
Thanks for the pop by, and any other 6.5er's that pop through Boise, let me know. Always so great to see. I stole an idea for my CDR return from Paveltolz today, so again....Thank you!
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Pat, Thanks for the compliments. It was great to finally link up after what, three previous attempts. Thanks for the lovely parting gifts too. That tune is a work of art with crisp shifts, TCC lock ups, lower EGT's, boost comes up earlier and, as you know, great launches off the line without crop dusting the world. Fuel mileage is up from what I saw on the drive out but I didn't have the headwinds either. The CDR mod was a 'mother of necessity' deal and I'm pleased it passed muster of peers.
It was a great road trip and visit at Heath's. 635 (Ted) showed up with his self designed and custom built 5th wheel flat bed hauler. 7' load ramps, semi-truck stands, LED's enough to light the planet, and strong enough to support an 11K service truck.
Sweet.
When I left Bill's, my boost sensor started into death throws and was kicking a P0236 code everytime I touched the throttle. Bill went the extra mile to ensure the Tune was not the cause by reviewing each line of code and, of course, it wasn't but it was a wonder to see the customer dedication in effect. They didn't have a spare sensor so Todd pulled one off his truck, which is getting a new motor, so I've got the purchase of a new unit on my 'to do' list this week.
It was a great road trip and visit at Heath's. 635 (Ted) showed up with his self designed and custom built 5th wheel flat bed hauler. 7' load ramps, semi-truck stands, LED's enough to light the planet, and strong enough to support an 11K service truck.
Sweet.
When I left Bill's, my boost sensor started into death throws and was kicking a P0236 code everytime I touched the throttle. Bill went the extra mile to ensure the Tune was not the cause by reviewing each line of code and, of course, it wasn't but it was a wonder to see the customer dedication in effect. They didn't have a spare sensor so Todd pulled one off his truck, which is getting a new motor, so I've got the purchase of a new unit on my 'to do' list this week.
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Matt Bachand
Depends on the 6.5
Sweet trailer!
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Credit where credit is due...
Upon review of the thread, I note that I have failed to give credit where credit is due. When Ted, Paul and I were originally discussing the spacer idea we made a pit stop at Heath's. While there I bounced the idea and concerns off of Todd Hughes who told me that he'd seen drag racers make these things out of wood for their racers.... Anyway, that's what inspired me to at least create the mock ups and then give them an operational shot on the truck. Sucker was working too, as it turns out, just couldn't keep it torqued down but that's already been discussed.
Neighbor is getting ready to go final on the Aluminum. Still working out the mounting of the stock on the machine. Unfortunately there isn't enough material but for two units. Each unit needs about nine inches of spae to allow for the cuts and with only 23 inches of length...oh well, there is room for him to make a few test passes. Next time I purchase material, it will be in sufficient sizes to maximize output. Yet another lesson learned.
Upon review of the thread, I note that I have failed to give credit where credit is due. When Ted, Paul and I were originally discussing the spacer idea we made a pit stop at Heath's. While there I bounced the idea and concerns off of Todd Hughes who told me that he'd seen drag racers make these things out of wood for their racers.... Anyway, that's what inspired me to at least create the mock ups and then give them an operational shot on the truck. Sucker was working too, as it turns out, just couldn't keep it torqued down but that's already been discussed.
Neighbor is getting ready to go final on the Aluminum. Still working out the mounting of the stock on the machine. Unfortunately there isn't enough material but for two units. Each unit needs about nine inches of spae to allow for the cuts and with only 23 inches of length...oh well, there is room for him to make a few test passes. Next time I purchase material, it will be in sufficient sizes to maximize output. Yet another lesson learned.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
What a great follow thru from start to finish, well documented and another creative modification for the "dinosaur 6.5".
Very inspiring, Thanks for sharing!
Very inspiring, Thanks for sharing!
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
You are most welcome. We were finally ready to cut one out from aluminum instead of the wood test cuts he's been doing to confirm specifications and all (pressboard, 1/2" thick only, calm down Matt). He had to order a special part for some reason or another so it came in and the machine was ready to do the Dew and then the part broke before making any real progress. Not sure what part it is, could be the cutting head/bit...I just don't know as I wasn't there and have been stuck in a lot of airports watching "cancelled" light flash. The new part was to be in Monday but deliveries are slow because of the holidays and the weather. So, I'm waiting like an expectant parent for a delivery.
In the mean time, to compare fuel mileage between turbo's since I wasn't overwhelmed with the results from the ATT I swapped back the GM-5. I suspected through conversations that the underwhelming results were caused by timing the turbo swap with the change to winter blended fuel. Sure enough, first tank with the GM-5 had me right where I was last year at the mid 15s. I'll run the GM-5 for a while longer to see the results of 10 or more tanks but right now, after three fill ups I'm at 15.7 were I was still in the mid 16's with the ATT. I don't smoke as much though and the EGT's are actually about the same at speed. The tune Bill did for me really woke up the ATT from what the GLE tune was doing for it though. More low snap and lower take off EGTs than what I was seeing. Same tune is working equally well for the GM-5 too. I had to recalibrate my grin meter though. Only negative issue I had was an increase in noise from the motor. Solved that by correctly attaching the down pipe to the Turbo. Duh moments, gotta love them.
More on the spacer when the cutting machine is up and running. In the mean time, Merry Christmas all.
Sunshine
Northern Lights
Thank you and a Very Merry Christmas to you to & All., just received my New tune from Heath Diesel as well veryyy smooth,,, in this salt flats LQQK a Like winter....
Matt Bachand
Depends on the 6.5
So you are happier with the GM-5 then the ATT?
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
I like both, sucks as that may be for an answer, and my personal jury is still out. There are strengths and weaknesses to both and those have been discussed ad-nausium(sp) on other threads. The biggest issue for me was mileage and smoke. As some have mentioned, the 2+ MPG improvement didn't seem to materialize either, but then there's the added anomoly(sp) of changing intakes, adding the spacer, the switch to winter blend of fuels along with changing tunes in the middle of the 10 tank run with the ATT. And, with the swap back to the GM-5, my mileage is lower than with the ATT now and much lower than before the swap.
So, I'll run a couple of more tanks and establish a new baseline for comparison and try again. So far as smoke goes, I noticed the other day while driving through Christmas Rush Hour traffic and jumping at opportunities to change lanes to get wherever I was going I was laying down some smoke with the GM-5. Pat mentioned my ATT didn't smoke that much but Boise is almost 1500 feet lower than where I commute so altitude does make a difference, as also has been mentioned.
I'm no tree climbing environmentalist but I think I need to accept or exercises a lot of responsibility WRT being a better husband of the gifts of this world. MPG is more important to me than a little smoke and not just from a $$$ perspective either. Besides, there are plenty of Cummins, Power Strokes as well as D-max owners running amoke here that seem to think it is cool to crop dust for ever from a dead stop or blow a traffic obscuring blast at the slightest touch of the pedal that my truck looks absolutely Green by comparison.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
Would a GM8 sway you any.....supposed to be the best of the GMX series turbos?.....Just curious if you consider the 5 and the 8 as the same in your application?
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Back to the Spacer
Neighbor got the codes done to the point that it was time to 'go big or go home.
Here's a couple of shots of the event.
Blank. Aluminum 6061, 12x12x1 inches.
Seting up the aluminum blank on a steel base plate and secure everthing to the machine.
Cutting out the center.
What the cut patterns looked like.
Finished piece.
Still needs the boost sensor bolt and IAT sensors drilled and tapped and then the gauge sender's 1/8th NPT drill and tap. WMI, Propane, NOX etc. can be added as desired. Plenty of room for all.
No for the 1000 words:
The program first drilled the six mounting holes and we ran bolts into a steel base plate cut down 2/16ths and threaded to allow the securing of the piece during the milling and to ensure the piece didn't vibrate. This is especially important since the center was milled out first. The outer cut would have left the finished piece free floating during the final pass as the outer "waste stock" was what was clamped down. So, the bolts confirmed our set up of the bolt paths as well as ensuring a fine finished product. The inner and outer cuts took 17 passes each. 16 ea at 1/16th of inch in depth to cut through the blank and one full final pass removing an additional 1/64th off the face to put on a fine finished look
A buddy asked for a unit 2" in thickness, but it is Gary's observation (mill owner) that 2" is too thick for the machine. We experienced some vibrations that marred the product in areas nobody would normally see (or notice) and in discussion, the machine and the cutting tool isn't there.
Some have asked if we plan on making up and selling these things. Short answer, keeping my day job.
There is no way for us to do this and break even or to produce a product at reasonable cost. It is, at best, a $50 product and we'd have to charge double that given the cost of aluminum. It took the machine over an hour to cut this one out and it took two people since the machine has its own challenges that have to be overcome during the runs. Set up, run time, and clean up...it just isn't there. :nonod:
Costs to date:
I have about $150 in aluminum alone plus taps, drills and another $120 to have the first one rough cut by a machinist (see earlier posts). I donated an old Lap Top computer to help further the cause. Gary, my friend who owns the mill with his son, has dumped over $200 into materials, steel, wood, and cutting tools plus weeks of time having to code every aspect of this thing and make numerous test shots of wood to make it work. I have enough stock for one more unit and that one is going to Paul in Norway as promised. If anyone else would like one we will do it, but the dealio is that you'll have to provide the aluminum and Gary will cut it out for $50 (he keeps scrap). Drilling and tapping of anything beyond the boost sensor would be up to you. (I don't have the 5/8 NPT tap for the IAT...yet nor a drill press to ensure accurate drill and taps).
Dennis, as promised, you still get the one currently on the truck for your own review and testing.
Keep in mind this thing was conceptionallized to provide a means of mounting PCM boost and IAT sensors for someone replacing their stock intake with either a penninsular or other creation. If used with the stock intake and GM turbo, you've lost the alignment and it is 1/2" to short to mate up with the ATT (and it is off axis just enough to not work w/o cutting the stock intake anyway).
Sorry for the long post. I'll mount drill and tap this thing Tuesday or Wednesday. Kids came across a BFR on the freeway with no time or ability to dodge it and so my Jetta has need of the Panzer plate getting pounded out and an oil pan replaced. Without that Panzer plate, they would have been stuck in the middle of BF Idaho instead of being able to complete the trip. Once the oil pan is off, I can check the source of that new funny noise....:mad2:
Neighbor got the codes done to the point that it was time to 'go big or go home.
Here's a couple of shots of the event.
Blank. Aluminum 6061, 12x12x1 inches.
Seting up the aluminum blank on a steel base plate and secure everthing to the machine.
Cutting out the center.
What the cut patterns looked like.
Finished piece.
Still needs the boost sensor bolt and IAT sensors drilled and tapped and then the gauge sender's 1/8th NPT drill and tap. WMI, Propane, NOX etc. can be added as desired. Plenty of room for all.
No for the 1000 words:
The program first drilled the six mounting holes and we ran bolts into a steel base plate cut down 2/16ths and threaded to allow the securing of the piece during the milling and to ensure the piece didn't vibrate. This is especially important since the center was milled out first. The outer cut would have left the finished piece free floating during the final pass as the outer "waste stock" was what was clamped down. So, the bolts confirmed our set up of the bolt paths as well as ensuring a fine finished product. The inner and outer cuts took 17 passes each. 16 ea at 1/16th of inch in depth to cut through the blank and one full final pass removing an additional 1/64th off the face to put on a fine finished look
A buddy asked for a unit 2" in thickness, but it is Gary's observation (mill owner) that 2" is too thick for the machine. We experienced some vibrations that marred the product in areas nobody would normally see (or notice) and in discussion, the machine and the cutting tool isn't there.
Some have asked if we plan on making up and selling these things. Short answer, keeping my day job.
There is no way for us to do this and break even or to produce a product at reasonable cost. It is, at best, a $50 product and we'd have to charge double that given the cost of aluminum. It took the machine over an hour to cut this one out and it took two people since the machine has its own challenges that have to be overcome during the runs. Set up, run time, and clean up...it just isn't there. :nonod:
Costs to date:
I have about $150 in aluminum alone plus taps, drills and another $120 to have the first one rough cut by a machinist (see earlier posts). I donated an old Lap Top computer to help further the cause. Gary, my friend who owns the mill with his son, has dumped over $200 into materials, steel, wood, and cutting tools plus weeks of time having to code every aspect of this thing and make numerous test shots of wood to make it work. I have enough stock for one more unit and that one is going to Paul in Norway as promised. If anyone else would like one we will do it, but the dealio is that you'll have to provide the aluminum and Gary will cut it out for $50 (he keeps scrap). Drilling and tapping of anything beyond the boost sensor would be up to you. (I don't have the 5/8 NPT tap for the IAT...yet nor a drill press to ensure accurate drill and taps).
Dennis, as promised, you still get the one currently on the truck for your own review and testing.
Keep in mind this thing was conceptionallized to provide a means of mounting PCM boost and IAT sensors for someone replacing their stock intake with either a penninsular or other creation. If used with the stock intake and GM turbo, you've lost the alignment and it is 1/2" to short to mate up with the ATT (and it is off axis just enough to not work w/o cutting the stock intake anyway).
Sorry for the long post. I'll mount drill and tap this thing Tuesday or Wednesday. Kids came across a BFR on the freeway with no time or ability to dodge it and so my Jetta has need of the Panzer plate getting pounded out and an oil pan replaced. Without that Panzer plate, they would have been stuck in the middle of BF Idaho instead of being able to complete the trip. Once the oil pan is off, I can check the source of that new funny noise....:mad2:
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
No, I still consider myself new enough to this engine that I still consider myself pretty much a Noob. But, thankfully, not noob enough that I would consider the 5 and the 8 as the same. Because I'm generating a lot of verbage I try to specify this comparison is for the GM-5 only and I ask the community to forgive me if I've made too broad of an impresion. I don't remember the specific differences of the 5 vs the 8 so I invite anyone with that factoid to add it here as I think it will add more relevance to what I'm observing and reporting.
Truth be told, a while back, I was offered a sweet deal on Ted's (635) beautiful GM-8 that had been rebuilt, extrude honed and ceramic coated to mach that sweet motor Jamie Avant built for him. I was very much looking forward to the opportuninity to see what the improvements would have been over the GM-5 that came on my truck.
However, to my delight, that changed to getting his ATT instead.:thumbsup:
However, It had to be rebuilt first as it got "Carvered" during that "350 HP" build that went bad.
So, Dennis rebuilt it, I bought it and now I'm playing around to see which one seem to be the best for me. There is also the understanding that if Ted ever wants the ATT back, it is his for the asking, no problem (it has been polished up very pretty too). :bling:
So, I'm still testing/playing, and trying to not get emotionally attached to either of them as the GM-5 is old but familiar and honestly, quite capable for what I'm asking of the truck; the ATT is, in my opinion, still a loaner, and there is far too much emotion between me and this hunk of iron.
By the by, Hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
:Merry3
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buddy
Active Member
Wont be much difference between the GM8 and GM5, or GM4. The only real difference is the exhaust elbow. GM shortened the turbo housing by moving the wastegate into the elbow, compared to the others that have it as part of the turbo housing. That gave them enough space to make a smooth 90 degree elbow on the GM8 compared to the cobra head elbow on the others. attached to stock exhaust I couldnt imagine any difference. Might be a very slight benefit with 4" exhaust system and no cat.
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery...
With apologies to Patrick and Walking J, I had some material laying around (and because I’m cheap) rather than drape it over the ATT and wire it down, I came up an ATT blanket of my own.
First off, Patrick's is a much cleaner design, thicker, finished very nicely and undoubtedly better constructed.
Me, I used 24 gauge wire to ‘sew’ mine together, to include ‘hemming’ the edges and used a the left over material to incorporate a cover for the down pipe. The material and the gromet didn't work well together and tore out on the downpipe portion but, it is functional, if a little rough around the edges. Besides, the Frankenstein look matches the theme the riveted hood louvers give it.:hihi:
Oh well, it will work and it was something I could do for the truck inside where it is warm for a change. :thumbsup:
With apologies to Patrick and Walking J, I had some material laying around (and because I’m cheap) rather than drape it over the ATT and wire it down, I came up an ATT blanket of my own.
First off, Patrick's is a much cleaner design, thicker, finished very nicely and undoubtedly better constructed.
Me, I used 24 gauge wire to ‘sew’ mine together, to include ‘hemming’ the edges and used a the left over material to incorporate a cover for the down pipe. The material and the gromet didn't work well together and tore out on the downpipe portion but, it is functional, if a little rough around the edges. Besides, the Frankenstein look matches the theme the riveted hood louvers give it.:hihi:
Oh well, it will work and it was something I could do for the truck inside where it is warm for a change. :thumbsup:
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Full Circle for the time being
With the warmer temps these past couple of days, and in anticipation of re-installing the ATT I decided to poke around the truck for a bit.
I like the Peninsular intake set up enough to have it powder coated so I swapped the OEM upper intake set up back to the truck while the Peninsular parts are in the beauty shop for a few days. While I’m waiting, I might as well finish the HID upgrade as the replacement for the DOA bulb has finally arrived.
As for the spacer, I have to say the machined unit looks better than the one I’ve been running these past few months.
I have the right taps now to complete the machined spacer myself and lack only a 37/64” drill bit so I can tap the IAT sensor. Although it is pretty close, a ½” hole isn’t large enough to accept the 3/8” tap. A local Fastenal has the correct bit but they were closed so I’ll have pick it up in the morning and then it will be done. The milling machine owner, Gary, will work on his milling machine to correct some performance issues and adjust the code just a bit so the next one will fit his perfectionist streak. On a side note and in response to a question PM’d to me, Gary explained the code he wrote is a simple one that would work on any machine. It consists of “G” and “M” type commands.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the instrumentation to complete any in-depth analysis or gather any real technical data. But, having swapped back the OEM intake, my seat of the pants observation is that from a performance stand point there isn’t a measurable difference in how the truck behaves. I guess that’s a “good news, bad news” discovery. Suffice it to say, the ‘improvement’ between the two intake set ups is only one of aesthetics and that is a subjective observation at best. The spacer, as originally conceived, appears to have the advantage of functionality for mounting OEM sensors and additional gauges sensors and whatnot.
I did discover the source of the small drops of coolant on the floor…the replacement bung for the heater hose quick disconnect I swapped in a while back seems to need a little more Teflon tape. At least it isn’t a water pump issue as another member may be having. SSDD:hihi:
With the warmer temps these past couple of days, and in anticipation of re-installing the ATT I decided to poke around the truck for a bit.
I like the Peninsular intake set up enough to have it powder coated so I swapped the OEM upper intake set up back to the truck while the Peninsular parts are in the beauty shop for a few days. While I’m waiting, I might as well finish the HID upgrade as the replacement for the DOA bulb has finally arrived.
As for the spacer, I have to say the machined unit looks better than the one I’ve been running these past few months.
I have the right taps now to complete the machined spacer myself and lack only a 37/64” drill bit so I can tap the IAT sensor. Although it is pretty close, a ½” hole isn’t large enough to accept the 3/8” tap. A local Fastenal has the correct bit but they were closed so I’ll have pick it up in the morning and then it will be done. The milling machine owner, Gary, will work on his milling machine to correct some performance issues and adjust the code just a bit so the next one will fit his perfectionist streak. On a side note and in response to a question PM’d to me, Gary explained the code he wrote is a simple one that would work on any machine. It consists of “G” and “M” type commands.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the instrumentation to complete any in-depth analysis or gather any real technical data. But, having swapped back the OEM intake, my seat of the pants observation is that from a performance stand point there isn’t a measurable difference in how the truck behaves. I guess that’s a “good news, bad news” discovery. Suffice it to say, the ‘improvement’ between the two intake set ups is only one of aesthetics and that is a subjective observation at best. The spacer, as originally conceived, appears to have the advantage of functionality for mounting OEM sensors and additional gauges sensors and whatnot.
I did discover the source of the small drops of coolant on the floor…the replacement bung for the heater hose quick disconnect I swapped in a while back seems to need a little more Teflon tape. At least it isn’t a water pump issue as another member may be having. SSDD:hihi:
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Off Topic
Appoligies as I go off topic but I just got one of lifes' "chair shots" or head kicks.
"The Call" came from my mom's nursing home at 2:30pm that she'd taken a sudden down turn (Hospice had been taking care of her since Monday so the countdown was on but @#$%^&* this was fast). We went to see her and they weren't exagerating:nonod: Two hours later, right as the sun went down after giving us a fantastic sunset on the Wasach front to the east and the clouds to the west, she crossed over. Absolutely perfect timing. Whatever your faith, it certainly strengthend mine.
Sorry, but as an only child, I tend to adopt readily so you are all part of what I consider an extended family and I needed to dump a little. Thanks for the support and thanks to Hospice as they have been of great service to me twice now.
Back on topic. Finally found the right drill bit and when the important events of this day get settle later this week, I'll finish up those testy little projects that don't seem so important now.
"Don't take life so seriously. Nobody gets out alive." Sterling W. Sill:hihi:
Paul
Appoligies as I go off topic but I just got one of lifes' "chair shots" or head kicks.
"The Call" came from my mom's nursing home at 2:30pm that she'd taken a sudden down turn (Hospice had been taking care of her since Monday so the countdown was on but @#$%^&* this was fast). We went to see her and they weren't exagerating:nonod: Two hours later, right as the sun went down after giving us a fantastic sunset on the Wasach front to the east and the clouds to the west, she crossed over. Absolutely perfect timing. Whatever your faith, it certainly strengthend mine.
Sorry, but as an only child, I tend to adopt readily so you are all part of what I consider an extended family and I needed to dump a little. Thanks for the support and thanks to Hospice as they have been of great service to me twice now.
Back on topic. Finally found the right drill bit and when the important events of this day get settle later this week, I'll finish up those testy little projects that don't seem so important now.
"Don't take life so seriously. Nobody gets out alive." Sterling W. Sill:hihi:
Paul
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
In my book going quickly is a good things. I'm sure it still hurts tho