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Intake Mod, other project or two and finally, the ATT.

Paveltolz

Доверяй, но проверяй
Messages
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Location
Saratoga Springs, UT
Projects Projects.
Taking a week off from work to get some space on the shelves.

Today I installed the Walbro pump and Wix filter I’ve had sitting on the shelf forever. I wanted to mount it all up so it wouldn’t hang below the frame. I made up a mounting bracket similar to Leroy’s (PMDCable.com) who sold me the pump and filter. I had to do it twice (of course) and it took most of the day.
fuel line fittings 003.jpg

I did mine opposite of his set up but fuel flows in the same order of Filter, LP, FFM….

Anyway, I filled the filter and the pump prior to sliding it up into place as I wasn’t if it needed priming or not. Started right up and kept running so that project is done. :thumbsup:
I also found the source of a mysterious knocking sound that I haven’t been able to figure out…downpipe and cross over are in contact. I’ll fix that little issue tomorrow.:cool:

Tomorrow: FTB, Fuel Filter Manager relocation and then…the Peninsular intake mod / ATT install.

During the road trip with Ted (635) and Paul (Sunshine) we ordered pieces parts to duplicate Ted’s intake. He runs a Peninsular upper through a couple of 90 degree bends to the Turbo. Yes, I know it actually flows the other way. At the Peninsular, the first 90 is part of a Cummins set up which opens up from 2.5” to match the 3” opening of the Peninsular. From the turbo he’s running a silicone hose with a molded 90 in it. That elbow is showing signs of softening up sooo
We decided that a 2.5” mandrel bent pipe would be better so let it be ordered, let it be delivered and I’m the guinea pig for this mod. Just know and understand that the set up will work with a GM-X or the ATT so long as there is enough play in the joints held together with 2.5 and 3 inch silicone couplers.

My one big concern was how to mount the ECM’s IAT and Boost sensors.:???: Ted’s lower intake was drilled and tapped during the build but I didn’t want the holes in case I decided to revert back to stock. That is where the idea for a “throttle body” spacer of sorts came up. A one inch spacer, milled to accept the sensors for the ECM and still have room so one could also tap gauge sensors as well as WMI stage 1 and 2, Propane Injection and whatever else.
The spacer’s 1” thickness is negligible as the Peninsular’s base is only 3/8” thick and the stock upper is over 1” which means you don’t even need longer bolts.

I’ve mocked up a wooden unit 1.5” thick (the IAT sensor is pretty thick and I kept splitting the 1” mockups. The final will be made from aluminum plate
A few pictures of how the wood mockup was made.
Intake 01.jpgGlue and press plywood together
Intake 03.jpg Trace using Peninsular upper and gasket as guides
Intake 04.jpg Use old upper as drill guide in lieu of a drill press
Intake 05.jpg
Intake 08.jpg Drill holes for Boost and IAT sensors
Intake 09.jpg I used a female NPT pipe fitting for IAT sensor. RTV was used to seal the fitting in place.
Intake 10.jpg Boost sensor in place (diagonal hole drilled from inside the spacer to the vertical to allow pressure to reach the sensor.
Intake 11.jpg In place and all holes line up and electrical connections will mate up as required.
Intake 12.jpg Peninsular upper with cummins elbow. Note the thickness at the bolt holes compared to the stock thickness in the "drill press" photo).

My neighbor has a machine to cut/mill the part and I’ve purchased enough aluminum plate to make a couple of mistakes. Unfortunately, he’s on vacation and I’m getting impatient as can be. So in the mean time, I picked up a scrap piece of aluminum plate large enough to work with and am having a roughed out unit cut. My jig saw just won’t do it (funny the success I’m having with this spacer in learning all the ways things just won’t work).:rolleyes5: The machinist is swamped so I may not get the piece back until next week. RATS. So, I’ve decided to use the wooden unit and have coated it with sanding sealer and engine paint so it won’t absorb outside moisture and inside oil mist from CDR as fast and am going to go for it. It will only have to last a few days and I want to play. :hihi:

Not sure how to get rid of the photos below, I thought I'd deleted them and they don't show up on edit. :eek:
 

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Looks pretty good. Maybe I should buy one of them from you to use with mine I have not installed yet.

So you made a channel in the wood from the intake to the boost sensor?
 
:hihi: Matt likes wood! :biggrinjester:

Maybe we should just build our whole engines out of wood! It might crack less lol

From the number of cracks, etc., I have experienced trying to cut a functional mockup, I don’t suggest using wood to build the motor. :nonod:
Post man ran the route in the opposite direction today so the FTB didn’t arrive until late afternoon. :???:
I installed the ATT instead and used the spacer as promised. I’m reserving judgment on the ATT because there were issues with the spacer that, in all fairness, force my ‘first impressions’ to wait till tomorrow.:nonod:
The 1.5 inch thickness proved problematic as the bolts were just a tad too short to get a good bite and after a 60 mile road trip they had let go so I was losing boost to the point the truck was essentially equipped with an N/A motor.
So, using the table saw I trimmed a little off both the upper and lower surface and a small piece of my finger tip #$%^&:rof:. Tomorrow I’ll remove a bit more as it is still 1.25” and that’s too thick.
If the spacer fails again tomorrow, I have cut down my old upper intake to use with the ATT instead. “Have a backup plan cause the first plan won’t work.” Rogers’ Rangers.
Here are a couple of shots from the install today. What can I say, it looked good!:hihi:
DSC00794.jpg GM-5 vs ATT
DSC00802.jpg Intalled and ready for re assembly
DSC00803.jpg
DSC00804.jpg
DSC00805.jpg
DSC00806.jpg No boost = High EGT on slight climb at low speed.
No worries, I'll fix this, I've got lots of time and "a third grade education in this here head.":thumbsup:

FTB and another test run tomorrow.
 
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So you made a channel in the wood from the intake to the boost sensor?

What I did was drill horizontally from the inside out to meet the vertical. The sensor fits into a 3/8" hole which I drilled < 1/2" deep. Then I drilled a somewhat smaller dia. (can't remember the drill size but it was probably 3/16") hole another 1/4" deeper. The horizontal hole was the same as the smaller vertical and the two met at the juncture to form an "L" only the horizontal is angled up a little because of space confines that don't allow the drill to get a 90 degree angle. I'll use a flex shaft on the final products though. Since I'm slimming the assy down to about an inch, I have to be mindfull because the horizontal opening is now almost on the edge.

Thanks for the compliment. I've gotten a couple of offers already and I appreciate it. Who knows..."it - could - WORK!"
 
Longer bolts are unnecessary with the reduced thickness of the spacer which is now about 1". But yes, the stock bolts used on the two middle holes with the EGR and those F uppers that have the hump are the right size, even at 1.5". The ones used at the corners aren't sufficient.

Hard wood would be the better choice if this was the final product but I'm waiting on "my favorite machinist" to finish a few projects ahead of mine to cut out the aluminum one. He did the drilling for the FTB today for free as an appology for not getting to it yet. The wood does look better though and I have a plank of oak shelving material just waiting for a project. I'd have to glue it together like this plywood unit to get it it near the 1" thickness. An then there is the long term issue of the wood's absorbing moisture and or oil from the CDR. It would be only a matter of time before it started to swell and then it would be uneven which would create issues quite unique to the application.

I made a couple of test runs today with the thinner spacer in place along with the Feed the Beast project done. After a 20 mile run to see if the ATT would perform better with boost actually getting to the motor vice blowing out the gaps (it does but more on that later) I checked the bolts only to discover that they all seemed to have backed off about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. Then I realized, or surmized, that what may actually be happening is the wood is compressing. It's two pieces of 3/4 plywood glued together and then shaved back down to one inch so I think that's a logical explanation. I re-torqued them to 12 lbs and went for another 30 mile run. Upon return, they required another 1/2 to a full turn to get back to 12 lbs torque.

Any other thoughts that may be the cause as this is just weird?

The ATT is everything others have said. Low end snap is traded for higher speed efficiency and power. Quiet in the cab now as the whistle has subsided measurably. The truck would probably benefit from an ATT specific tune but I'm not disapointed with the performance provided by the GLE.

I didn't relocate the FFM out of the valley of death when I did the FTB mod. Not enough fuel line and I didn't like the idea of having to cut and splice the wiring to the location I wanted and with everything apart I couldn't visualize how to run things without creating some sort of octopus. It is fine where it is for now and if I really want to, I'll move it later.

Question 2. The heater has two wires; black and orange. The orange wire was bare of insulation for an inch at the base of the FFM though still connected. When testing he two wires at the plug/connector twith the multi meter, the circuit was showing open. Is this correct? Many simple heating circuits will show closed/shorted so I have to ask. Thanks.
Paul
 
The wood most defanatily is expanding and contracting at a rate far different from the other metals.

Damn, something in me absolutely loves the fact that a piece of wood is sitting in the valley of the engine, clamped down by aluminum on both sides... The fact that air is blowing past it, and oil and everything else just makes it that much better.... Lovin it....
 
take a piece of harwood and soak it in oil for a couple of days then it won't swell and when it finishes compressing it's all done.
 
Combines have many bearing blocks made out of oil soaked hardwood. My combine is 28 years old with the original blocks. It should work.
 
When you soak hardwood in Oil it makes a nice bearing. The oil soaked hard wood will not expand and contract as much as the dry plywood will keep doing. Actually boiled linseed oil will do the same thing and seal the wood as well, need to get the wood cells to expand and settle. Don't ask!
 
When you soak hardwood in Oil it makes a nice bearing. The oil soaked hard wood will not expand and contract as much as the dry plywood will keep doing. Actually boiled linseed oil will do the same thing and seal the wood as well, need to get the wood cells to expand and settle. Don't ask!

"Don't ask" huh. I think I know:mad2:

I retorqued to 13 lbs before calling it quits last night and marked the bolts. W/O driving and just sitting all night it compressed some more. Went to retorque and sure enough.... I guess I shouldered the first bolt I tightened and spun out the threads in the lower. #$%^&*^%$#@$%^&^%$. I have the 8mm helicoil kit soooo I backed them all off and will repair later this afternoon. When the aluminum piece is finished Monday, I'll be back in buisness.:eek:

IF I was to stay with wood, and I might just try it with that piece of oak, I will follow this advice.

The main thing though, I'm still having fun.
 
Yeah necessity is the mother of invention, perseverance the art of knowing when to quit, hard headed the art of not knowing when to quit. Guess where I fall!
 
If you can put the wood and oil in a vacuum, the wood will really absorb the oil when the vacuum is released.
 
Use aluminum and be done with it. If you need one made let me know.

Use wood for testing and mockup purposes only.

The only wood that would hold up is phenolic, but I wouldn't trust it above 10lbs. of boost for very long, due to heat and oil saturation. Aluminum can be made cheaper, and will last forever.

I'm also modifiying 6.2 manifolds that bolt up to a 6.5 for other intake mods such as turbos, WMI, and various intake plumbing diameters. From 5" down to 3".
 
Yeah necessity is the mother of invention, perseverance the art of knowing when to quit, hard headed the art of not knowing when to quit. Guess where I fall!

RE: "Guess where I fall!" About where the rest of us do on the path to wisdom. When I look back upon the trails of life's journey to wisdom I see a path strewn mainly with pain.

Any advice on the fuel heater circuit? Should the circuit read open or shorted when checking continuity at the unplugged connector (black and orange wires leading to the bottom of the FFM)?
 
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