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hx 35 turbo

6.5coalroller

6.5coalroller

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Farmland, IN
Hi i'm new to DTR, I am 6.5coalroller on diesel bombers I usuallly spend a lot of time on there. I will be a senior in high school this year. I have a pretty big interest in the automotive area and I plan on going to school to become a diesel mechanic after highschool. Rite now i've got a 95 4x4 2500 6.5 TD and i'm plannin on hoppin it up at the end of this month. I'm gonna go to ARP headstuds 40 horse injectors 4 inch exhaust and i wanna add a hx 35 turbo if possible to begin with. Then i'm gonna add in a GL4 chip from heath diesel and maybe water injection.
 
Welcome to DTR!!! You are now in the best place on the internet to talk about your 6.5. We have the best group of 6.5 guys right here hands down. Enjoy the site.
 
Howdy CR glad to see you made the trip over.

As I told you on other site, with your budget I'd stay with a GM turbo (save up for a ATT) sell your HX-35 to somebody can use it (not the best turbo for the 6.5) with a mechanical boost control, open exhaust & DP, FTB, remote your FSD and you'll wake up your 6.5 to match most stock Diesels surpass some, you can catch attention of some of those ricer vehicles. Your 6.5 without a LOT of $$$ will not keep pace with a modded other Diesel truck so forget those aspirations, wholly different different fuel injection methodology and IP output limits what the 6.5 is capable of inexpensively, to make bigger Hp than "bolt on performance, & reprogram" will allow for you'll need to get more fuel & cooling to the engine, need to know what your end game is to best advise you on your goal.

Also in user CP , you can update your signature line with pertinent truck info welcome again to what we feel around here is THE BEST 6.5 info site on the web, most of us are veterans of others and know that to be a reasonably accurate claim.
 
Why is the HX35 not a good match? Is the turbine housing too large-12 cm's? What about the HY35 or HE341 with 9 cm housings?
 
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Post #1 and you are hopping it up. Well done!

Any photos are always welcomed, and really add to the knowledge base.

I wanna see a head gasket project!
 
i'll make sure and keep you guys posted on my progress once i start.

i just bought a turbo last night i just gotta have a lil more money for injectors once i start tearin it apart. and i'm thinkin bout makin my own water mist injection and jus puttin it on a swith for when i'm playin around
 
turbovanman said:
Why is the HX35 not a good match? Is the turbine housing too large-12 cm's? What about the HY35 or HE341 with 9 cm housings?
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SmithvilleD said:
I'd like to 2nd the question on how the HX-35W isn't a good fit for the 6.5? Any supporting data?
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Mis-statement not saying a HX-35 could not be used: it's been done, but not as a plug and play, boost levels HX-35 generates generally requires lowering of CR for "safe" use on 6.5s, which brings different issues to bear; plus at higher pressures(& stresses) increased IAT comes so you'll need some sort of intercooling; heck any turbo to a point can be made to work, but will the efficiency match the engines operating profile.

Carrying on from the discussion at the other site with Coal Roller, he's indicated he needs a good bang for the buck solution, so best bang for buck solutiuon "bolt on" for most part is the ATT, which works okay with stock program, and very well with Heath program (some tweaks needed to optimize that to match operating profile of the ATT still to be worked out). IIRC Oregon Horse Tug is running a beta test of a tweaked version.

If one has a HX-35 in hand & they wanna make changes to make a HX-35 or other turbo work one could do that also, but do it incorrectly and all you will get is a bad bang for that buck ie blown up engine.

ATT I'm recommending for his particular situation from info given; were I in his place, IMO would be the better choice, opinions vary, that is mine 25K on my 1st ATT & 3K on my 2nd vehicle with ATT. Side benefit to the ATT it pays back over time with better mpg tons of data not just mine to support that.
 
I'm not at all trying to knock the ATT. Just noting that I haven't seen any data on the Holset regarding some points.

While these Holsets can make higher boost levels than healthy for stock 6.5's, boost levels are easily adjusted in this application of a wastegated turbo.

Do you have any HX-35 data backing that the Holset isn't a good match for the engine's operating profile? Comparisons to other turbos are inevitable. It's also unlikely any one turbo will outperform all others, in every scenario.

Over the years, I've participated in a number of other turbo applications performance forums (most significantly w/ the 1st generation DSM - AWD Talons/Eclipses). Modders of the 1G 4G63 turbo engines tried many different turbos as the knowledge base grew/evolved. At any point during the evolution of almost 2 decades, there was a turbo the masses thought to be the ultimate for this application. And over time, healthy modded 4g63 (122 ci) at 250hp became more common, then 300 hp, then 350, then 400, and it continues.

My last effort in this regard put my 3250 lbs AWD '91 Talon thru the 1/4 mile traps at ~128 mph. This was with a Mitsu hybrid turbo combination that was popular at the time. While an 11 second 1/4 mile street tired car will always be fast, there are many practical, street driven DSM's out there now, that are faster - and they utilize newer, even better matched turbos.

My point here is not to knock the ATT. Many happy customers makes a strong statement that it is a good option. The point is if experimentation stops, so does development & evolution of 6.5 tech. It's likely there are 6.5 turbo combinations yet to be tried, that will outperform both the Holset & the ATT.

I'm not trying to promote an argument, just useful discussion towards a better understanding of the Holset options for the 6.5. If we're going to exclude any turbo option, we should do so with the benefit of data &/or experience.

While the Holset has a T3 flange that mates cleanly to the T3 6.5T exh manifold, it will require a custom fabb'd downpipe - similar to what comes with the ATT kit. The oil feed requires an adaptor fitting to mate cleanly to the stock turbo's feed line.

Have yet to find any IAT data from a 6.5/Holset combo. I'll get that data when my setup is complete. Regardless, it's likely to benefit from some type of cooling method (I/C, water/alc injection, etc.) just as some folks are doing with other 6.5 turbo options.
 
it seems to me the holset turbo is more of a race turbo were the ATT is a towing turbo. turbine doc and slim have been telling us that the ATT has been a towing turbo from day one.

look at the thread im pretty sure it says it in their somewhere. on the other hand if you supply enough fuel the holset turbos would probably be a better option for racing and big horsepower numbers.

The problem and what will always be the problem is how to supply enough fuel. because the DB2 and DS4 have already been tested to there extremes we need another pump to get more fuel. if something like that becomes easier to do im pretty sure we will see more holset turbos
 
Woody35 said:
it seems to me the holset turbo is more of a race turbo were the ATT is a towing turbo. turbine doc and slim have been telling us that the ATT has been a towing turbo from day one.

look at the thread im pretty sure it says it in their somewhere. on the other hand if you supply enough fuel the holset turbos would probably be a better option for racing and big horsepower numbers.

The problem and what will always be the problem is how to supply enough fuel. because the DB2 and DS4 have already been tested to there extremes we need another pump to get more fuel. if something like that becomes easier to do im pretty sure we will see more holset turbos
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I don't follow that logic. Stock Cummins aren't race engines so why would they be a race turbo for our engines?
 
RJ's Suburban that performed well in the Page's towing/hill climb challenge ran a modified Holset.

The point I'm trying to make is any general statement that suggests one specific turbo is the best for 6.5's, isn't likely to stand true if development continues.

Compressor maps (& turbine maps if you can find any) are a good place to start. Do know you'll also sometimes see a turbo not perform well regardless of the comp map being a good fit. And vice-versa.

Trying things to actually see how they work is fundamental in finding newer, possibly better solutions. Certainly the ATT came into being this way.

Gail Banks sold a Mitsu TEO6H for the 7.3 IDI's. Prolly a number of T3/T4 Garrett hybrids would prove to work well in certain applications also.

For my application, I don't really want to try run more fuel than the DS-4 can provide (w/ non-stock PCM programming/chip). I like my 6.5 for the relatively inexpensive, competent truck that it is; but I'm not willing to risk too much $ finding the long-term durability limits of my OEM 6.5 block/crank/foundation. Just want to optimize what I have for reasonable costs.
 
SmithvilleD said:
RJ's Suburban that performed well in the Page's towing/hill climb challenge ran a modified Holset.

The point I'm trying to make is any general statement that suggests one specific turbo is the best for 6.5's, isn't likely to stand true if development continues.

Compressor maps (& turbine maps if you can find any) are a good place to start. Do know you'll also sometimes see a turbo not perform well regardless of the comp map being a good fit. And vice-versa.

Trying things to actually see how they work is fundamental in finding newer, possibly better solutions. Certainly the ATT came into being this way.

Gail Banks sold a Mitsu TEO6H for the 7.3 IDI's. Prolly a number of T3/T4 Garrett hybrids would prove to work well in certain applications also.
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I have a chart on Holset sizes in my thread about Holsets, it has some comparisons against T3/T4 turbo's.
 
Guys I was citing a specific example for one individual's need and also said in my 1st reply I mispoke, I'm not saying for everybody's need ATT is the best, put whatever dang turbo on there you want, best turbo discussions are same thing as best reflash discussions pointless; use whatever floats your boat.

Read the original replacement turbo thread, & from day one I have said this turbo matched with the 6.5 is a very suitable turbo and IMO the best one for overall normal driving, and heavy towing, some turbos will out accelerate it to a point, above 1500rpm the ATT is very stout. But it does so without boosting any more than the 6.5 was designed to operate at and a healthy 6.5 will be vastly improved overall with it over the GM-8.

With my GM-8 on my truck I required 11-12 psi on a given day to run +100mph, with my ATT I can run same with 8-10 psi on given day, my GM-8 required me to run an IC to tow big, my ATT at this point has not required it, I have removed my IC, and will be running WMI to control IAT, with a fully enclosed 6X12 trailer loaded to 2000# (lot of "sail area" on the trailer) I have not suffered without the IC nor defueled from high IAT. I'll have the WMI for when I tow really big later on 18K#, just in case I need to lower IAT, but from what I've seen thus far I doubnt I'll really need it or if I do I'll use it much.

My Suburban has neither IC or WMI, has defueld only once running 111 mph for test on 95F day, I could not do that with my GM-8.

Both the burb and the truck mpg has gone up, power has been retained, and by seat of pant dyno has more power overall. Others report similar finding with their ATTs.

I don't hit redline on the burb with 3:42s on a cool day because it runs out of fuel not boost, FTB has not been installed and OEM lift pump on it still, it just will not go any faster 3100 max rpm IIRC.

On the truck I don't have a safe place to try to redline it in OD 114mph is as fast as I've pushed it 3100 rpm too much traffic, and after last years axle shaft falling apart, I'm afraid of a tire blowing or something else going bad and me killing myself or someone else on the interstate.

Compressor wheel maps don't mean squat here I don't have a map of the ATT, nearest one to the ATT is a map for a Mitsubishi TDO-7 22A, which the ATT was morphed from, ATT does not have same compressor wheel as the TD0-7, and I'm not sure the turbo wheels are exact matches either.

I think it would hold it's own on same hill climb as RJ's and does not require that CR be lowered, (which at this point is conjecture) as it's not likely that one will run that hill anytime soon.

The simplicity factor is best over anything other than a GM turbo, mpg is better, power over stock is better, cost to install is lowest, unless one a other turbo in hand, I don't know fab cost of others, but that is with a used turbo and fabbing work, vs a $745 ready to install kit which IIRC is what Walking J is selling them for.

Hopefully one will be dynoed soon, couple of folks saying they will be dynoing theirs in the near future.

FWIW much as some folk have repudiated & surmised that I have a financial interest in the ATT, I've got nothing to do with the ATT other than helping Slim with the R&D and working out bugs in the kit so "my 6.5 brothers" get a good product for their 6.5s.

So I have no zippedy do dah care if you buy a ATT, or Holset, or RJ or Bubba's house of turbos on yours, ATT works, & works well bout all I'm gonna say bout it. To define the best would require study same truck diffetent turbos on dyno, or towing vs timed to climb or track time slip, and that mite lead some credence to the discussion, at this point it's supposition.
 
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in other words the A Team Turbo is a good overall turbo for towing and communtingwhich is what a majority of 6.5ers do with there trucks. its cheap and and performs way better than any Gm X series turbo could. but if you use your 6.5 for a different purpose a different turbo could be a better choce. it all ddepends on how you drive and what its used for
 
Acesneights1 said:
Tim,
where can I order my Bubbas House of Turbo ??
Is that a Steak sauce product ??
):h
Click to expand...

I'm in Waycross Ga this week at the locomotive shop I'll see if I can grab a picture of the "new" turbo Bubba just removed from one of the 6000 or 4400 Hp Diesels that has been puking oil.

Says made in Germany on it but after 8 hrs of running, some are already leaking oil, so I think we got some house of Bubba turbos somewhere :D.
 
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