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HEATH or KOJO?

THEFERMANATOR

THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
Staff member
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Location
ZEPHYRHILLS FL
I'm helping a buddy of mine out with his 2000 K3500 he just got. He runs a shop and picked this truck up off a customer for $700 because an oil line let loose and took the engine out. He put in a new 6.5 longblock and got it all together, and teh turbo let loose on the first trip on the highway(guess the lack of oil got it). I've talked him into an ATT for it, but he's on the fence about who to go to for a tune. He called HEATH and likes him, but I was wanting to know how KOJO's tune worked compared to HEATHS? His big thing he wants is to have the torque converter stay locked as he hates GM's shifting logic that unlocks everytime you flinch just about, so he wants it to stay in lock-up primarily and I couldn't find any info on KOJO's trans tuning in a search. Any help is appreciated.
 
I've read that Heaths is the way to go with the ATT, KOJO may have some new things in the works though. I don't think you could go wrong either way.
 
And he spoke to Heath about the ATT and didn't get laughed off the phone? I don't think Heath is 100% behind the ATT from my conversations with them.
 
I did not get laughed at in regards to Heath and the ATT. I did get though that he does not really like it and of course believes that the stock GM turbo and Turbomaster is the way to go. I also got a lengthy conversation/explanation from him as to why. I'll say this for Heath laugh or not you do definitely get his time in taking the trouble to back up that laughter and as a businessman of course like it or not he is still smartly putting in the time to tailor a tune for the ATT. I got the impression that a number of ATT owners have been through his shop getting their tunes sorted out so it is well tweaked so to speak, which appears to be backed up by comments I see here on the forum.

Cheers
Nobby
 
Can't speak to kojo, but I'm satisfied with my Heath program. It would be very well suited to a day to day work truck.

It's been mentioned in the board that kojo has said Heath would be a better choice for tuning with a 4l80e.

My converter and shifting is revised in my Heath program. He seems to have a decent grasp and working knowledge on the subject.

I don't want to say too much, but Bill's shop has more than just a little bit of experience with 6.5 powered trucks in a working truck roll. Be worth it to tap into his experience there also.

Tim has also had bill spin up a couple custom programs for the ATT, so he's got a bit of experience there also.

Don't know what to say about bills opinion of the ATT, we never discussed it.

For day to day use and occasional towing, my gm8 gets the job done just the way I want. A heavier work truck might be a different story. My understanding is the gm8 is more "responsive" at lower rpms than the ATT Mitsubishi unit. But the ATT is supposed to be better at higher rpms and once moving while towing heavier.

All depends on how you are going to use the truck.

This might sound like a broken record, but if your friend intends to use it for a dedicated work truck get him to throw a new pmd on there. Every second a work truck isn't running is money lost.

I would go just a bit further and suggest a pmd from bill, for the seven year warranty if nothing else. Leroy is another option for the 7 year pmd although his cooling method is a bit different than bills iirc ( ie: heat sink style).

Heath isn't exactly "inexpensive" though my experience with his work/ products has been good...
 
To add to that...It nice to know you have someone you can call when you can't figure something out and will stay with you until it's figured out. Sometimes it's worth spending money to support someone like that. Imagine a 6.5 world with no Bill Heath....:sad:
 
It's been mentioned in the board that kojo has said Heath would be a better choice for tuning with a 4l80e.
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That's correct, now I remember.

As to Bill laughing at the ATT he would have his own agenda with his TM for the GMx turbos.

Many of us have the ATT and wouldn't go back.
 
Yes I like Heath and have and will purchase future products from him. They always take lots of time to talk with you and help you.

However, Heath suggested I replace the ATT with a GM8 with the smoke issue I have. Heath says the turbo is too big for the engine and they have had smoke issues that they can't solve with other 6.5's. I am still working on this issue, some other ATT users do not have this issue. I have recived plenty of help from Dennis and Buddy and need spare time to carry out their advice. With upcoming emmisions I may have to get a little crazy but I have a plan.

So I am very skeptical of a tune from a place that for whatever reason recomends against the product their tune is written for. Support being 'use a GM8' is really not going to help when you run into an issue. Maybe the choice is too small for the engine or too big for the engine? Automotive is always a trade off.

In any case I vote "No confidance" in the Heath tune for the ATT. I hope someone with a Heath tune and ATT can chime in and say he grits his teeth and does a good job with his tune and an ATT.
 
NVW said:
That's correct, now I remember.

As to Bill laughing at the ATT he would have his own agenda with his TM for the GMx turbos.

Many of us have the ATT and wouldn't go back.
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I wouldn't say that exactly. Yes he is a businessman but he had recommended to me if I wanted to try something above a GM8 try a Holset. I have yet to get misinformation from him. Gotten plenty off boards over the years though. I personally think my GM8 works fine the way it is with the working vac system. If it broke a TM would would be a much easier and cheaper alternative but i kind of agree wwith Kennedy after owning numerous 6.xx in different configs. Overall DD the vac system works fine...when it works. I can say that I have found Bill to be of strong integrity and has gone above and beyond what I would expect from a Vendor. I hope to meet him someday to shake his hand personally.
 
It was Patick at Walking J that I believe recommended the Heath unit for the auto tranny, not Kojo himself. Patrick sells both and the Heath costs more.

Kojo is able to keep the TCC locked with zero to mininal TPS, or deceleration, so if thats the main factor he can do it if specifically requested.

I recently located the bits in the OBD1 program that define how the TCC locks/unlocks, so I am testing the same things on my truck without needing the TCC switch which is another option for OBD1 guys, just not for OBD2 guys because of the DTCs it will cause.

I have some reservations about tuning for anyone, since I have a way I like things and think works best, and everyone else has their ideas of what works best as well. What was said before about having Heath in the US and a phone number is a factor, and if its not explicitly stated I would venture to guess if youre not happy with what you get that they would at least work with you once to retune it at no additional charge. And if there is an issue, then you can come back to the board and seek advice. Like with timing and fueling and shifts and what not.
 
WarWagon said:
So I am very skeptical of a tune from a place that for whatever reason recomends against the product their tune is written for. Support being 'use a GM8' is really not going to help when you run into an issue. Maybe the choice is too small for the engine or too big for the engine? Automotive is always a trade off.

In any case I vote "No confidance" in the Heath tune for the ATT. I hope someone with a Heath tune and ATT can chime in and say he grits his teeth and does a good job with his tune and an ATT.
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I dunno about that, if after working with/experiencing an ATT he personally as a 6.5 specialist is not into it then what is he supposed to say? Personally in a situation engine wise with a client whom I believe has made a bad choice then I to would no doubt first off suggest just that. Should they choose to stick with it and still solicit my help then I would more than likely do whatever I could to help. Which brings us to the next part of simple market forces, whilst he personally may not like it if there are enough out there crying out for a specialist tune then who can blame him for working on that need and maintaining his position with his competitors. There is what appears to be integrity/honesty in how he deals with it.

Cheers
Nobby
 
He has already got a remote FSD for it, but still needs to get teh harness to get it out of the engine bay. He's back on the fence now for a turbo as I guess somebody reccomended a modified GM-8 to him that another company is selling for $500. I'm heading over to his place in a little while to talk with him. As for the ATT and HEATH, I don't know if he mentioned to him that he was considering the ATT. I did find it odd though that he said HEATH wanted him to go out and do EGT readings towing before he would build him a tune for it though.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
I did find it odd though that he said HEATH wanted him to go out and do EGT readings towing before he would build him a tune for it though.
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That's a smart thing to do if for no other reason than a reference point. Many people are only gauge/numbers aware after mods and therefore have no idea if they are indeed seeing a post mod change or not. I am sure he uses it for part of figuring out his tuning but I am also sure that he also has had many post mod calls of my EGT's are high with no real pre mod reference to temper those readings against.

Cheers
Nobby
 
Well he ended up with a GM-8 replacement turbo for it from clearwater cylinder heads. It isn't an ATT, but for what he got it for dealer cost he couldn't turn it down. It has a completely different intake housing and impeller design in it than the GM-8 had. It spools up FAST to say the least, but I didn't have time to go for a ride with him to see how it ran down the road.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Well he ended up with a GM-8 replacement turbo for it from clearwater cylinder heads. It isn't an ATT, but for what he got it for dealer cost he couldn't turn it down. It has a completely different intake housing and impeller design in it than the GM-8 had. It spools up FAST to say the least, but I didn't have time to go for a ride with him to see how it ran down the road.
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Now my interest is piqued!

Pics, part numbers and specs if you are able please....
 
The normal GM8 spools up really fast too. The real issue is the exhaust side, take the heat shield off once and look at just how tiny it is. Its crazy small.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Well he ended up with a GM-8 replacement turbo for it from clearwater cylinder heads. It isn't an ATT, but for what he got it for dealer cost he couldn't turn it down. It has a completely different intake housing and impeller design in it than the GM-8 had. It spools up FAST to say the least, but I didn't have time to go for a ride with him to see how it ran down the road.
Click to expand...
Link please. I have not heard of this and would like to read up on it.
 
nobby said:
That's a smart thing to do if for no other reason than a reference point. Many people are only gauge/numbers aware after mods and therefore have no idea if they are indeed seeing a post mod change or not. I am sure he uses it for part of figuring out his tuning but I am also sure that he also has had many post mod calls of my EGT's are high with no real pre mod reference to temper those readings against.

Cheers
Nobby
Click to expand...
You are 100% on the ball. That is why I installed gauges(Pyro, boost FP) in my Burb even though it's 100% stock. All the 6.5TDs I have used to tow I immediatly put tunes on, TM's on Cooling upgrades etc and then had issues with egts and had no baseline for comparison. Now with my Burb I have a good solid feel and #s so if and when I add any tune, Turbo mods etc I can compare.
 
Do you think that the GM dealer would recommend a Ford product?
 
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