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Going mechanical with a Moose Omega Marine IP

Diesel Page did a write up on that years ago . Probably need a membership to see it . Need to make a mount that goes around the upper outlet and bolts to the 4 bolts that hold the neck on and then mount the bracket , for the cable , on that .
 
The single is better for the main purpose of the block off for the t-stat, but also for allowing the coolant to work. The big problem with the dual housing was when both stats opened, the stats could full flow, but the bypass still had vacuum on it from the pump trying to pull back through it. It is also about a 5/8" ID through the bypass on the dual housing IIRC. So the theory was this actually slowed coolant flow through the engine even though you had a larger pump, because it could just bypass the radiator through the bypass. Also with the bypass open, water speed slows down because the coolant is going all over the place, and just taking the path of least resistance. So many add in a 3/8" orifieced restrictor to the bypass to help limit how much can bypass back through the pump(GM did this on the DURAMAX, so I'm guessing this was copied over to the 6.5L). This still leaves you though with the higher flow through the stats lessening the scrubbing action of the coolant against teh cylinder walls. Coolant just flowing by cannot absorb heat efficiently, so it needs to go by with a scrubbing action for it to absorb the heat. Otherwise the coolant right next to the cylinder will get hot and boil off, while the rest just flows by. So by going back to a single stat, you thus increase the pressure inside the block increasing the scrubbing action which increases the cooolants ability to absorb the heat. And the single stat completely blocks off the bypass, forcing all heated coolant through the radiator, hence greater efficiency all around.
 
I have run the singles hard towing in extreme heat with some crazy mods. I run out of other things in the cooling system before flow from thermostats. Always staying below 210 including while busting the EGT myth.

Oil cooling is the cooling system that I run out of and suggest you do UOA at 2500 miles looking for going out of grade from getting too hot. If so you have to run synthetic.
 
Burning oil said:
Duals don't have the bypass block built in is the main reason the singles are supposed to be better.

I run the DB2 on mine with duals. I'll try to find a youtube video of my set up. I just got a new computer and don't have photos on it yet.
But basically I turned the neck upside down and made up a new radiator hose from the stock one and another (joined them together) I had to reroute the turbo air to upper intake, but you won't need to do that with your set up.
Click to expand...

I'm amazed you found that hose. It looks like that does the job exactly. Very clever of you! Sure, send me the part number if you get a chance, I'll keep that in mind.

EWC said:
Diesel Page did a write up on that years ago . Probably need a membership to see it . Need to make a mount that goes around the upper outlet and bolts to the 4 bolts that hold the neck on and then mount the bracket , for the cable , on that .
Click to expand...

I've done searches in the past and found some info on how other people did the swap. It's been a while since I looked at them, but as I recall most of those just focused on the cable and not the fast idle solenoid. I'm not worried about making a cable bracket, but being able to fit the solenoid is concerning me. Based on what the other guys below have said, maybe I don't have an issue after all.

THEFERMANATOR said:
The single is better for the main purpose of the block off for the t-stat, but also for allowing the coolant to work. The big problem with the dual housing was when both stats opened, the stats could full flow, but the bypass still had vacuum on it from the pump trying to pull back through it. It is also about a 5/8" ID through the bypass on the dual housing IIRC. So the theory was this actually slowed coolant flow through the engine even though you had a larger pump, because it could just bypass the radiator through the bypass. Also with the bypass open, water speed slows down because the coolant is going all over the place, and just taking the path of least resistance. So many add in a 3/8" orifieced restrictor to the bypass to help limit how much can bypass back through the pump(GM did this on the DURAMAX, so I'm guessing this was copied over to the 6.5L). This still leaves you though with the higher flow through the stats lessening the scrubbing action of the coolant against teh cylinder walls. Coolant just flowing by cannot absorb heat efficiently, so it needs to go by with a scrubbing action for it to absorb the heat. Otherwise the coolant right next to the cylinder will get hot and boil off, while the rest just flows by. So by going back to a single stat, you thus increase the pressure inside the block increasing the scrubbing action which increases the cooolants ability to absorb the heat. And the single stat completely blocks off the bypass, forcing all heated coolant through the radiator, hence greater efficiency all around.
Click to expand...

WarWagon said:
I have run the singles hard towing in extreme heat with some crazy mods. I run out of other things in the cooling system before flow from thermostats. Always staying below 210 including while busting the EGT myth.

Oil cooling is the cooling system that I run out of and suggest you do UOA at 2500 miles looking for going out of grade from getting too hot. If so you have to run synthetic.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I hadn't considered that flow is just part of the equation and the coolant staying in contact long enough to actually remove the heat is the other part. I already have a 3/8" restricter in the water pump as advised by others as a crutch for the dual thermostat setup. Hmmmmm, perhaps I should take the path of least resistance and use the 96 housing....save myself a lot of work and maybe even improve the cooling system. So if I go with the single, should I remove the 3/8" restrictor or is it fine to leave it in place?

One other question, you guys are talking about the single as if the thermostat blocks off the bypass port when it's open - is that true? If so, do you guys know if the 1996 single configuration also does that? I'll open it up and confirm, but that won't be until later tonight at the earliest. Just curious, thanks.
 
EWC said:
Diesel Page did a write up on that years ago . Probably need a membership to see it . Need to make a mount that goes around the upper outlet and bolts to the 4 bolts that hold the neck on and then mount the bracket , for the cable , on that .
Click to expand...
Ok, I just found one where he did add the fast idle solenoid. He used a solenoid that didn't have the pass-through rod design which gave more clearance on the backside. That would be helpful for sure.

At this point though, I'm thinking I may just go with the 96 housing and then just focus on the cable mounting.
 
96 singles had the blocker type stat.

I forget why but I could not run the 96 single on mine. I think it was because the neck is further right and the dual is off set to the left witch gave the clearance.
I'd love to go to the 96 single so if you find a way i'd like to know.
 
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Burning oil said:
96 singles had the blocker type stat.

I forget why but I could not run the 96 single on mine. I think it was because the neck is further right and the dual is off set to the left witch gave the clearance.
I'd love to go to the 96 single so if you find a way i'd lie to know.
Click to expand...
As far as I could tell just on initial inspection the neck seemed to be in the same location. I will verify for sure though.

Actually, I just looked up the upper radiator hose for both a 96 and a 97 and it's the same part number. Now since the hose is flexible that doesn't mean there isn't some slight variation, but it's at least close. I'll look into this further.
 
n8in8or said:
As far as I could tell just on initial inspection the neck seemed to be in the same location. I will verify for sure though.

Actually, I just looked up the upper radiator hose for both a 96 and a 97 and it's the same part number. Now since the hose is flexible that doesn't mean there isn't some slight variation, but it's at least close. I'll look into this further.
Click to expand...
You could use small CAC/IC "U' aluminum pipe to make that turn if your going with reversing the 2 stat outer stat housing.
 
There has been lots of talk about a single stat being better than the dual stat however the reason GM went with the dual is the pump flow was increased, reduce the area of flow from the dual to single stat may require a lower flow pump. Possible pump cavitation to go along with the steam cavitation the 6.5td in already know for when using EGW mix.
 
FellowTraveler said:
There has been lots of talk about a single stat being better than the dual stat however the reason GM went with the dual is the pump flow was increased, reduce the area of flow from the dual to single stat may require a lower flow pump. Possible pump cavitation to go along with the steam cavitation the 6.5td in already know for when using EGW mix.
Click to expand...
It was a theory that has been disproven. The 6.9/7.3's used a healthy water pump, and just a single stat with no blocker. The 7.3 powerstroke stayed with a single stat, but added in a blocker. Even the CUMMINS uses asingle stat. Once the pressure goes up, flow goes down, and that increased pressure inside the block lessens air pockets, cavitation, and increases thermal transfer. The only downside is the excess pressure can cause the stat to take a little longer to open from the extra pressure acting against the vernatherm.
 
Nick, part # on the hose is 70664 it has to be cut, but has the perfect bend in it. Then join it to the stock hose.
Got it at AutoZone
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
It was a theory that has been disproven. The 6.9/7.3's used a healthy water pump, and just a single stat with no blocker. The 7.3 powerstroke stayed with a single stat, but added in a blocker. Even the CUMMINS uses asingle stat. Once the pressure goes up, flow goes down, and that increased pressure inside the block lessens air pockets, cavitation, and increases thermal transfer. The only downside is the excess pressure can cause the stat to take a little longer to open from the extra pressure acting against the vernatherm.
Click to expand...
Interesting!
 
Recently on here someone reposted an article on Heaths single stat with the screw on balanced flow HO pump. Someone here should know where to look.
 
I know this single/dual topic crop more than once here and on other sites.

There is more to the cooling of any GMT400 than just the cooling system. My take on steaming is it is still an issue when using EGW mixtures more so on side turbo applications especially modified versions and GM had included steam lines into the newer cooling systems which are still in use in the LS series engines, I'm not sure if steam lines are incorporated into the Duramax.

The steaming is an issue 'so much so' that no amount of flow or water pump pressure can eliminate it when using EGW mixtures especially around the pre-chambers of the IDI or in high compression and/or boost applications.

One member here "sctrailrider" has a heat barrier that can be applied to the pre-chambers and cups that can reduce "not stop" the steaming when using EGW mixtures and enhance the efficiency of the IDI which is perhaps the best idea I've seen in my life.

Want to really stop steaming then use EVANS or any other brand waterless coolant 'period.'
 
Yeah the coolant boiling is simply not well understood especially the amount of bubbles that flow out of an engine at normal temps. This is why Water Wetter gets results! Steam has to get below 212 degrees to re-condense into the coolant. Yes, this is a different number than the higher coolant mix's boiling point! (Adjust temp number of distilled water for a 15 or 16 pound cap to condense it.) GM FUBARED the LS2 they dropped into the Trailblazer SS. It was known to overheat if you changed the coolant and didn't get all the air out by removing one of the steam/air vent hoses off the head and purge it. Worse, rather than direct the head vents to the radiator they force the steam to go down (lower) and tie into a heater hose. With the return coolant and radiator coolant mixing for reduction of cold shock and even engine temperature all happening with the thermostat and related connections below the level of the water pump this system does regularly fail. It fails because of the ASSumption that it's working with liquid only and ignores the steam bubble aspect of coolant that gets fed back to the suction side of the pump to even the temperatures out. The Corvette version had steam vents in all 4 corners of the heads - The Trailblazer SS version only had them in the front.
 
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Not too much too report progress-wise. I did put the 96 single thermostat housing back on because I decided that was the direction I would move forward with. I started looking at cable routing and came up with a design for a cable adapter so the gasser Tahoe cable will attach to the pump. I will share that after I make it - maybe next week.

In more important news, I finally got some Leroy Diesel stickers!!!! He found it in his cold, sticker-Nazi heart to send some to me even though my shipment was being drop shipped. What a guy!! :D

Oh and I also got some other goodies. I have the big pieces I need to do the conversion. Now I just need to fab throttle cable parts and work on fuel line details.

Oh I also contacted Joel at Conestoga and he said that AN fitting is the one they used for testing and also proved sufficient for the 205cc pump they made. So I am going to see what the female fitting I get looks like and as long as they have the same ID I'll leave the fitting on the pump alone.

Stickers!!!!
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This is one of the filters Conestoga sent me and a filter base to go with it. This will be my secondary filtering system.


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Max Tow 30psi fuel pressure gauge and Wix filter with water drain to go on my existing Leroy Diesel filter base. This will be my pre-lift pump filter.


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US Shift 4 transmission controller.


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