Gathering info and parts for a DB2 conversion

[dbrannon79]

Hello all, I figured I would start a new thread for me to gather as much needed information as I can along with looking for what parts I would need in order to convert my DS4 over to a DB2. this way when I hopefully get the donor 6.2 I have running and ready along with when the time comes that my current 6.5 with almost 300k finally gives up I can get this done all at the same time.

with the recent scare my truck gave me with the rocker arm shaft bolt backing out of the head, making me think the engine had given up, it has gotten me thinking about the future of my truck. thoughts have gone through my head about the DS4 IP not knowing how much longer it will last along with if anything else going wrong with the engine.

for those who might no know, my current setup is a 1995 3500 long bed crew cab two wheel drive truck with the 4l80e trans. all old school OBD1 system.

I have a 6.2l sitting on the engine stand which has a DB2 IP that I know nothing about, the engine is complete with the intake, turbo (no vacuum actuator style), thermostat crossover, throttle cable bracket, exhaust manifolds, water pump, and alternator all still attached to the engine. I could theoretically do very little to have this engine run on the stand. this engine does not have any CPS on the timing cover, only a couple of coolant sensors on it as it came from a truck with a manual trans.

as for the truck side of things, I know I need a way to control the transmission along with finding a cable style throttle pedal and cable for it. I have no idea if I can use any of the existing sensors on my truck or wiring to connect a factory TCM or if I will need to go with the EZ-TCU route. ether way I know it's gonna be a large expense of which I can't afford all at once. So I guess I need to start looking for parts along with asking some questions hoping some of you guys who have done these conversions will chime in, maybe some will even have some pieces here and there I may need.


to start off with, Sensors needed, I recall Will saying something about using the CPS for the TCM. I think the one on my 6.5 is a two wire, but I'm not sure. I assume I will need to swap over timing covers and install the CPS wheel on the crank. I will have to look, but I don't think there is a TPS on the IP, not sure if there is a place to mount one ether. I assume there is a bracket of sorts I might need for that?

Here is a parts list I think I will need

1. TCM with ether connector pigtails or a harness made for a two wheel drive truck.
2. Throttle pedal ( will one from a gas truck work? if so what year range should I look for? )
3. Throttle cable ( I have heard finding one for a diesel will be like finding a needle in a hay stack, I might have to get creative with my DIY skills )
4. TPS sensor and bracket ( I will look to see for certain the IP I have doesn't have one )

Please chime in with any info to help along with if I will need other parts for the conversion.

 

[dbrannon79]

As for the 6.2 engine on the stand, I plan to start getting it where I can possibly do a test fire on it making sure it will run and see what work is needed on it. I need to pull it off the stand and get a flywheel installed along with a starter mounted so I can at least crank it over. I have the manual style flywheel that was on it when I got it but will eventually need a flex plate if I use this engine.

I plan to do a compression test on it first before tearing into anything. I have already pulled the pan looking at the lower end condition. I did find some cracking in the main webs but my thinking is "good luck" finding a block that isn't cracked. as for how long will it last, who knows.

will the mains survive if I attempt to remove the crank, spending some to have the crank balanced? that I don't know ether or if the engine is worth doing this to with cracked mains. I was told it ran and I only paid $50 for it. if anything, my luck would be be pulling out my engine and finding out that it's not cracked at the mains but has the damage on the starter mount! LOL.

My plan on the 6.2 is that if the compression checks out and I am able to do a test run, I think I will go through all the seals and gaskets, timing chain, water pump, maybe even a new oil pump. Have it ready along with finding someone to go though the IP. Not sure what the going rate is for that.

 

[jrsavoie]

I have either a throttle or shifter cable off a boat here.

If you could adapt it, if you can cut it shorter. You're welcome to have it. I just threw it in the garbage barrel yesterday. It's been sitting for maybe fifteen years, still seemed to slide easy.

 

[dbrannon79]

I just watched an interesting series of videos on youtube on re-working a DB2 pump. I'm not even gonna try that but is seemed very interesting to watch.

Here is part 1 of 5 the series should continue one after the other. not sure if the info is all correct though, I don't know anything about them lol just thought I'd share the link.

 

[dbrannon79]

I did look at the IP on the 6.2 and there is two screw holes on the side of the IP and seeing how the TPS mounts in the video series linked, all I would need is the sensor it's self on the pump.

 

[Will L.]

The gasser won’t bolt in and work perfectly. It would take modification.
There are a lot of aftermarket pedal and cable assemblies for hotrod builds.
Post pics of the db2 including model number.
Yes use the ds4 timing gear set up for cps signal if ever needed. Cost nothing extra to have if ya never use it. The hmmwv cps is a two wire cps that fits into the stock location if a 2 wire is needed instead of the 3 wire unit.

I would not mess with removing the crankshaft unless you are going to do “lock and stitch”.

You can remove piston/rods if desired. New Bearings on them, cam bearings, etc if you want.
But honestly a broken block is a ticking time bomb. I would say make it run as cheap as possible and look for an optimizer take out.

Run the current 6.5 as long as possible then drop the 6.2 in until it grenades. Hopefully the two lasts until you find a rebuildable optimizer.

 

[dbrannon79]

I will try to get some pics of the DB2 and post them up.

That's my current plan, keep running the 6.5 till disaster strikes and hope by then will have the 6.2 ready. I want to take it slow getting the 6.2 up to where I can use it if ever needed. thinking about the conversion, I think I would probably have the DS4 fail before the engine does. iirc there is a date code on a sticker of the DS4 that was back in 2008 , I'd have to go back and look, but considering the age and mileage, I'm sure it was installed sometime when GM made some updates and it might already have up around 150k miles on it by now just guessing.

With not having anymore "new" hard parts for the DS4 IP's, I'm not sure if it's better to locate all the things I need for the conversion and do it when the current IP dies or just invest into a rebuilt DS4. here in my state there are no restrictions for vehicles over 25 years old not to mention in a couple of years they are planning to pull the plug on mandatory state inspections. that was already signed by our governor

the 6.5 seems to be running good now after using thread locker on the rocker shaft bolts and doing the bolt and nut modification for the buttons. only time will tell. The way I drive it and the amount of miles I drive, I think it will last a good long while too!

 

[jrsavoie]

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[dbrannon79]

Looks like I can get the throttle cable new from RA, they show them under a 6.2 diesel under interior. found the one for a truck and van. not sure what the length I will need but they look to be available

1993 CHEVROLET C3500 PICKUP 6.2L V8 DIESEL Accelerator Cable | RockAuto

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1993 CHEVROLET G30 6.2L V8 DIESEL Accelerator Cable | RockAuto

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[dbrannon79]

The biggest hurdle I think I will face would be controlling the transmission. I did a little looking online to see what's out there available for the 4l80e and ran across this on Summit. would anyone know anything about it?

FiTech Fuel Injection 20010 FiTech Go Shift Transmission Controllers | Summit Racing

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[dbrannon79]

Just posting some into I found so I can go back to and find them.

found one from US Shift. this one seems to be a little better for available options. seems they have two units. one that is a basic "get the job done" and another that can be custom tuned I went through their builder option for each type and the came out within about $100 difference in price between the two options.

US Shift Stand-Alone Transmission Controllers

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[Rockabillyrat]

I would recommend finding a 6.5 db2 pump vs using the 6.2 pump. The 6.2 pump will only get you to around 70cc of peak fueling maxed out because it uses the smaller .290" plungers. You can get 90cc peak out of a stock 6.5 pump if you calibrate it right. Or if you want a to have some fun I've gotten up to 140cc out if a .310 pump with some modifications.

The 4911 is pricy because its a popular pump only made for a few years. The 5079 is the same pump as the 4911 just uses 24v. A few other .310 pumps to use are the 5088 5119 and 5485. But they will all need to be recalibrated to make the same power as the 4911 or 5079.

 

[dbrannon79]

I would recommend finding a 6.5 db2 pump vs using the 6.2 pump. The 6.2 pump will only get you to around 70cc of peak fueling maxed out because it uses the smaller .290" plungers. You can get 90cc peak out of a stock 6.5 pump if you calibrate it right. Or if you want a to have some fun I've gotten up to 140cc out if a .310 pump with some modifications.

The 4911 is pricy because its a popular pump only made for a few years. The 5079 is the same pump as the 4911 just uses 24v. A few other .310 pumps to use are the 5088 5119 and 5485. But they will all need to be recalibrated to make the same power as the 4911 or 5079.

I will look at the one on the engine and see what it is. Will asked to post some pics of it and the tag on it. I will see if I can do that this evening after work.

just to get an idea, what's the going rate to send one in and go through it? I'm sure this one will need to be gone through or be sent in as a core for a good unit when I get to that point.

 

[dbrannon79]

Found another trans controller on Summit, but when looking at the manufacture site, they are showing this one as discontinued.

Painless Performance 66501 Painless Performance PERFECT TORC Transmission Controllers | Summit Racing

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[Rockabillyrat]

I will look at the one on the engine and see what it is. Will asked to post some pics of it and the tag on it. I will see if I can do that this evening after work.

just to get an idea, what's the going rate to send one in and go through it? I'm sure this one will need to be gone through or be sent in as a core for a good unit when I get to that point.

It depends on how far you want to go with it. The guys charging $450 are basically just taking them apart, cleaning, and resealing them. If you want to upgrade to a sleeved advance piston, and hardened transfer pump parts,. Then your closer to $750-800. And if you want more fueling out put on top of the other upgrades, then your looking at around $1000-1100. Those prices are if if the H&R are in good shape. If it needs replaced it $950 for a new one or $400 to have it machined with a new undersized sleeve.

They still sell new DB2 pumps for around $1400 I believe. Which isn't a bad option too. They have all the latest upgrades and you don't have to worry about the H&R being worn out.

I can simulate a hot start on my bench. So once the pump is calibrated that's the last spec I check. That will give me a good idea on what shape the H&R is in.

 

[dbrannon79]

so basically about the same cost give or take going this route vs a DS4, but with all the goodness of no electronics, longer lasting, and can run other diesels than just the clear stuff.

I think all the positives of a DB2 outweigh trying to stay with the DS4. Once I get that far gathering parts and getting more funding, I will be looking for you

while digging around on the innerwebs for TCM options. I found I can get a reman factory TCM #16147609 for around $100 but it will be missing the EEPROM chip. I also found that the EEPROM used in this TCM has the code BACX and I actually have that file in my collection of saved files. I would just need to get a blank chip and flash it with that file. I have played with this some on my current PCM and have all the tools to do this.

I would just need to get the harness pigtails for the TCM and find a schematic with the pinout for it. I'm sure I could de-pin the connectors on my PCM and move them over to the pigtail connectors for the TCM, only using the wires needed for it. tuck the remaining back in the dash and I possibly would have a working factory way to control the transmission.

Just thinking outloud, I wonder if I could get my hands on a OEM under hood sticker that shows "this vehicle conforms to 1994 emission standards" to replace the 1995 one LOL making it all look like it came this way from the assembly line. HAHA. I think that would be the icing on the cake.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Ds4 started in 94

 

[dbrannon79]

wishful thinking... honestly in the far fetched future, I seriously doubt inspection stations will have the data on what had what for those year models. especially since OBD1 systems didn't have the vin married to the PCM's that started with the OBD2 units.

funny thing is there doing away with the annual safedy inspections in our state but the few counties that currently do the emmissions teating will still be doing them. I have never had to to through one and hope I never will. Texas is one of the state that allows these conversions and engine swaps without any of those problems. Though since everyone in California seems to be moving to Texas that could change.

 

[dbrannon79]

Here are some pics of the DB2 that's on the 6.2 I have. I put a mirror on the plate since I couldn't get to it to read it and then blew up the pics of the data plate. it reads Stanadyne 4544, I can't make out the model number or what the stamping is for what I thin is the serial number.

what version of IP would this be and is it a good one?

 

[dbrannon79]

Well today I got a chance to roll the engine stand out and fiddle fart around on the 6.2 a little. something told me to pull the drain plug out so I did. Welp somehow water made it's way into the engine. it wasn't much but I drained that out, pulled the pan off and checked everything. all looked as it was before when I had the pan off so I coated everything down with some WD-40 without rolling the engine over. cleaned out the pan and put it back on. Pulled out the glow plugs and squirted some WD in there too. took a long ratchet and rotated the crank. it turned without issues and I could hear the compression wizzing out the glow holes just by turning it with a ratchet. put the glow plugs back in.

Then decided to break out the map gas torch and a ratchet. I was able to break all of the exhaust pipe bolts out without breaking them. when the engine was pulled, they had just cut the pipes off so the pipe stubs and flanges were still attached to the manifolds.

looked everything over to see what I needed to do in order to set it up so I could do a compression test and possibly start it on the stand.

I soon realized I am gonna have to get my A frame back out, find the chain and come-a-long that I used to get it on the stand, then install the flywheel plus figure out how to space it out enough to clear the stand brackets so it can be cranked with a starter. so I stopped there. Too hot to dig in the garage for the come-a-long.

I do have a question though. in order to save myself a little money. I have the old engine oil I drained from my truck. Can I just pour that in this block instead of wasting $60 on fresh oil so I can spin it over and maybe do a test fire? I have a few filters so I will install a new one anyway. I thought about this since I figure I will end up draining the oil out again anyway when I get to installing new gaskets and seals. I have no idea if there are any other issues with this engine.