Ether; use it or not, some say yea, some say nay.

[Acesneights1]

It's handy to have around for doing tires too...

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Brooklyn, you could do without the condescending attitude.

Non Typical...My remarks were never meant to be condescending....If you found them to be offensive, a sincere apology.

What pisses me off is when someone decides that they know everything

I have not decided that "I know everything"....Ironicly, i'm pretty well sure, i've decided the opposite.....everything that I contribute to this forum is just rehashed info i've picked up from the guys who really do "Know" something, and their experience has helped me in my own 6.5 trials and tribulations...I'm just passing it along.

It was meant as an observation, there have been many times when someone challenges facts with there own opinions and/or experiences...(and with every right.....just don't be surprised when people stand there ground)..but just because you have used ether without resulting damage, (and do we really know there isn't any?) This doesn't mean that ether is safe to use, quite the contrary it's been known to do some internal damage, and there are countless posts that support this with (Damaged glow plugs and Bent Pushrods) logic and theory.

or have the right to make fun of someone else because they know better.

Like I said before, if you took offence to my "Grasshopper" remark, I apologize....I was just trying to joke with you, I guess we don't have the same sense of humor.

 

[Non Typical]

It's handy to have around for doing tires too...

Probably is pretty good for maintaining tailgate fluid, eh?

Brooklyn, sorry, didn't mean to snap. Everytime a "young grasshopper" has been referenced that I have seen before, it has been by someone who "knew it all". Apparently I haven't seen all the usages for that term.

Point is though, it did this before ether was ever used. New plugs, injectors, IP. Timing procedure was done. I don't know where else to look. I am taking my crew north for a few days tomorrow, (gotta go where the work is), so I won't be able to get back at the truck until Friday. T-case is ready to go in and the old one ready to come out and go to the wreckers.

Like I said, I will swap in the new batteries so I know that I can check that off the list.

 

[Acesneights1]

I wasn't kidding. That is about all I do use it for. Beading stubborn tires. Which shows the force of exploding ether. It can blow a 44 in Ground Hawg onto a 14 inch wide rim and the tire jumps 2 ft off the ground. Imagine what that is doing to your engine.

 

[buddy]

Yeah, its good for getting tires on

 

[bison]

I wasn't kidding. That is about all I do use it for. Beading stubborn tires. Which shows the force of exploding ether. It can blow a 44 in Ground Hawg onto a 14 inch wide rim and the tire jumps 2 ft off the ground. Imagine what that is doing to your engine.

Talking about dangerous use of ether,this is worse than starting an engine on it.It could be deadly.

Sorry Ace, i could'nt resist it.:smile5:

 

[Acesneights1]

Yeah but a tire don't cost 8000$ if you damage it. It's not the method of choice but sometimes when the Cheetah don't work it's the only way.
BTW Disclaimer: Using ether to bead tires is extremely dangerous and seriuo injury or death may occur. This should only be attempted by experienced people. Don't try this at home !!

 

[Turbine Doc]

Guys need to lighten up a little, no need to get all jacked up, we can agree to disagree.

I moved the Ether opinions from here http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=11339

Ether not in itself a bad thing, some engines such as on in my 66 vintage JD 2020 tractor even have a boss for the can to thread onto.

Ether should not be used on the 6.5 with glows capable of making things go boom, but if glows aren't active and you need an ether "assist" disable all glows so no red hot individual booms are possible.

The high CR of the 6.2/6.5 should allow just compression starting with exception of coldest of cold engines. This also requires healthy cranking speed (starter/batts/cables), BTW for later model trucks with DTRLs putting on parking brake keeps head lights from drawing batt juice between cranks.

Ether has long been purported to make an engine "addicted" may be a myth where possibly the operator feels it's easier to used the ether than fix rest of system, ether use requires caution, too much can have negative results "washing" of cyl wall with repeated use and lead to wear and lowered CR then making it's use a necessity.

But ether has been around a long time, just as bad in gassers that start with it and get too much in a cylinder and it goes boom with spark, yet you see it on shelf for use in gassers also.

WD-40 better for Diesels, GM puts a no start fluid sticker on vehicles, to try to prevent folks from doing that which they know nothing about, prime example is big Diesel Fuel Only sticker on fuel fill, yet you still have folks putting gas in the tank.

Imagine if you will "allowing" ether use by those individuals, best to say for masses "ether not allowed".

If I was in a bind, and ether was my only option I'd use it in a bind,

Far better though to keep the glow and cranking system functional, and run light synthetic/block heat if it's gonna be maximum cold starting, like single & less than single digit temps, if that is an oft condition, manual extended glow with AC-60s or Duraterms also handy.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

I agree that any use of ether in a glow engine is flirting with disaster.

Now My 500 HP cat in the Western Star came with an ether squirt bottle and a little button on the dash to make it work.

That big engine only gets a tiny puff directly into the intake manifold.
Also this is a NON glow engine too..

I witnessed a fool once starting an old Olds 5.7 diesel using either.
He popped the hood and sprayed that beast down reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal good.
His Missus whiped the starter over and the thing took into orbit. OMG the poor little thing was screaming.

If its a time of dire need, one can spray a tad bit of Ma startly on a rag and hold the rag close to the air filter inlet. (Hold the rag tight)

A rag soaked in gasoline and waved in front of the air inlet will do the same thing. Even hair spray will do in a pinch.

There are ways to get these beasts lit when the chips are down but O'l Ma startly is not a real good deal on a glow engine.

Sort of like mounting truck tires with a snort of the stuff and then tossing a match around the corner at it.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM tire seated on the rim at near full pressure. OMG

 

[Acesneights1]

TD,
It is a known fact that even one use of ether usually wipes the glow plugs.
Perhaps a technical description of why the ether wipes the glows. I know it happens but was at a loss to explain excatly why .

 

[Acesneights1]

I witnessed a fool once starting an old Olds 5.7 diesel using either.
He popped the hood and sprayed that beast down reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal good.
His Missus whiped the starter over and the thing took into orbit. OMG the poor little thing was screaming.

That's funny. years ago my father had a 79 Caddy with a 5.7 grenade. It was at Cadillac for engine work at 20k. The idiots filled it with gasoline. It blew the head right off the motor and damaged the hood. New motor and hood later it finally blew again at 50k.

 

[Turbine Doc]

TD,
It is a known fact that even one use of ether usually wipes the glow plugs.
Perhaps a technical description of why the ether wipes the glows. I know it happens but was at a loss to explain excatly why .

Kenny I'm personally not sure of that info, if a "known fact" possibly a dealer notice or troubleshooting bullet from tech manual to confirm that is out there, I've not seen it myself, not saying it doesn't exist, but I've been "burned" far too often on the web quoting "web-facts". I'll check both my 94 & 98 manuals this weekend when at home to see if GM in factory manuals make mention of it.

As for why it might fail, possibly the element internals are fragile and rapid explosive force ether & hot glow too much stress on "innards" of the glow ???

 

[Pepperidge]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not...

But I've seen a diesel engine started on WD 40...the guy that did it...said the added lubricity and slightly less flammable nature of it was just fine as needed "in a pinch"

I don't endorse this in any way...but I have seen it used and it was the opinion of the mechanic only that it was relatively safe...and much safer than ether...

now that you guys brought up ether...I'd like to see what your opinions are toward that diesel mechanics opinion on the use of WD 40

 

[Acesneights1]

I personally tried the wd-40 on my 6.2. Didn't work. I used it with the ether. That is why I can speak from experience. Like I said I don't just post hear-say. I have been there-done that. I wiped out 6 glows and blew my starter drive. I have seen every time ether used on a glow plug engine the very minimum glows damaged. I have worked on and owned many 6.2s and 6.9s

 

[JiFaire]

I just don't like the stuff; not sure about engines getting addicted to it, or about ether wiping out glows (the guy I heard that one from is wrong about lots of other things, so Kenny, if you heard it from same guy, beware).

However, it most definitely predetonates in glow-plug engines, and having a hotter-than-normal boom before TDC is a great way to break stuff. The other issue is that when SOME glows are working, you pre-detonate on SOME cylinders... which is VERY unhealthy for the crank and rods.

If your glow plugs are working properly, you don't need it. If you DO need it, your glows are screwed, IMHO. In any case, you are far better to fix the plugs than to risk popping an engine.

(From Mfgr Website) http://www.warrenoil.com/product_autoguard.html

AUTOGUARD PREMIUM STARTING FLUID

Engine starting fluids are aerosol products which sprayed into the carburetor or attached to an injection system, will assist starting engines which may be balky due to cold, dampness or under maintenance. Typically starting fluids consist of ethyl ether, blended with other petroleum hydrocarbon. How well a product dispenses the ether in cold weather is an important characteristic. AUTOGUARD

Starting Fluids are effective down to -65˚F, they have low freeze points, high vapor pressure at low temperatures, low flash point, high BTU content and an upper cylinder lubricant for protection. AUTOGUARD Starting Fluid may be used with gasoline engines and some diesel engines. It is not recommended using any starting fluid in diesel engines that have glow plugs. Most passenger car and light truck diesel engines have glow plugs in order to preheat the combustion chamber. The use of starting fluid in engines with glow plugs can cause serious engine damage and possible personal injury. Larger trucks and tractors may not have glow plugs. For example, some tractors do not have glow plugs and inject starting fluid directly into the manifold. Starting fluid works very well in this type of application.

Always consult the owner's manual to determine the manufacturer's recommendation and whether or not a specific vehicle is equipped with glow plugs. Follow the directions on the can when using any of AUTOGUARD Starting Fluids.

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

Yeah but a tire don't cost 8000$ if you damage it. It's not the method of choice but sometimes when the Cheetah don't work it's the only way.
BTW Disclaimer: Using ether to bead tires is extremely dangerous and seriuo injury or death may occur. This should only be attempted by experienced people. Don't try this at home !!

Even experienced people can die from this practice. My cousin did...

Bill

 

[Acesneights1]

As far as LArge car engines , Yes I have used ether on my old detriots(6v92T,6v53) and have had to use it a few times last winter when the timer f'ed up on my block heater on my 3208T but the 3208T is much more forgiving and is known to be a low compression engine. That's why they smoke like sick whores on piss pot when cold. I remember using pellets(To my knowledge those are no longer availble)

 

[Acesneights1]

Even experienced people can die from this practice. My cousin did...

Bill

I'm sorry to hear that. Like I said no doubt a bad way to do it. Usually means the rim is damaged if the cheetah won't work. I'm real careful. I usually put on my welding gear and use a long stick to light it.

 

[Woody35]

welli guess im never going to touch this stuff unless im working on a diesel with no glowplugs. i figure if you follow a rule like that you will never damage your engine plus its better to be on the safe side

 

[ak diesel driver]

With wd-40 it takes alot more than starting fluid. I had a 6.2 that I put a rebiult pump (from a certain someone in AZ) and couldn't get it to run we used both wd40 and starting fluid on it and finally got it to start. I probably toof half the life off the starter trying to bleed it. Turned out my rebuilt pump was bad. We had a manual glow controller on it so we didn't have to worry about the glows and staring fluid. That's really the only issue is the glows being hot if they don't work it don't matter.