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electrical distribution sub panel or twin panels ????

S

schiker

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I understand when you add a sub panel or another load center you don't connect grounds and neutral in the sub panel.

But are there any exceptions like when you do a panel right beside the other panel?

My 200 amp main panel is near full in my mother-n-law apt/garage. I will need to eventually do a sub panel but may end up mounting it side by side to the main panel box.

My house has (2) 200 amp load centers side by side and I have never looked to see if one is a sub panel or if its considered some type of bussbar extension and both bond the neutral and ground and ground together and share the main ground? It does not have a big breaker feeding the 2nd box I think they are wired in parallel from the meter. That might be the key I just thought about it typing this. If they are very close proximity wired in parallel they are considered the main panel but if one feeds the other its a typical sub panel???

Is there any type of exception like that? Or do you always consider only one the main panel and ANY other is considered a sub panel.
 
In my house I have (2) separate full load centers with 200 amp breakers at the top. Neither have a big enough breaker to feed the other. I am guessing both are tied in parallel from the meter and may be considered one main load center ??? Maybe they are bonded together somehow behind the sheetrock.

My garage/apt I will probably do a classic 125 amp sub panel feeding from the original panel. Just seems like a pain to not keep neutral and ground tied together in second panel in such close proximity to main panel. Seems it would be a stronger ground than I could add independently. Especially if I attached the boxes with metal conduit or other bonding metal. I wouldn't mind adding another ground rod and would all be grounded not dependent on a long wire and not an isolated subpanel where you could loose neutral and flow current through ground. Seems like code verses extra grounding.

Then again its just not consistent with code and I guess the point of code. Was wondering if there was an exception for side by side panels.
 
I don't know. All I can see is the service feed lines.

Or have I mistakenly over thought it and original intent is still you don't ever want to loose the sub panel neutral return feed and flow current on a ground path. It's not more important to insure ground just have ground its intent is to keep neutral truly neutral at center tap feed at the service connection only?
 
How'd I miss this earlier?

In Sub panels the neutral bars must be kept isolated from the ground. They get carried back to the main panel only.

2 panels off 1 meter and no single main breaker or disconnect means is WRONG! Code says a single movement with 1 hand to kill all power, it can be before or after the meter.

Power companies only let it after the meter or you could kill power, bypass meter, turn power back on and steal all the power - so it's left up to local codes to say no disconnect mans before the meter. Ya never know...maybe yours was ok and it's before the meter. More than likely it was installed with 2 disconnect means instead of the 1 as required and not inspected or payed of inspector.

I promise your local fire chief would hit the roof if he saw that. House on fire- they throw the main to kill power and not electrocute fireman spraying water all over the half of the building still turned on...

Please for your safety and others put a label on both mains saying "1 OF 2 MAIN DISCONNECT" and an arrow to the other main next to it if you don't correct it. You guys know I'm not a Safety Sally here but -being a card carrying sparktrician with a brother as a retired fireman...Wow!

Any descent home inspector should catch and require repair before sell of the house.
 
Power comes from transformer to meter then to a main 200 amp breaker at the top of the bussbar. But the wires coming into the panel are always hot when the meter is installed.

No disconnect or breaker between the meter and my load center. I guess the main breaker 200 amps is the one hand motion disconnect.

I will separate the neutral and ground bars in my sub panel it just seemed like there may be an exception if you were side by side and you bonded the 2 somehow or something. But I guess if terminations are not in the main box its far enough away to be the issue why its intended to separate in the subpanel.
 
My house's load centers are labeled 1st floor on one then 2nd floor and basement on other but not 1 of 2 and 2 of 2. I'll correct that easy enough.
 
Photos would help. I am curious to see what it looks like. Any subpanel would need a 4 wire feed. Black and red for the 2 feeds, a neutral and a ground.
Maybe your 2nd panel is bootlegged?
 
What is "bootlegged"?

Sorry I am not really working on my house panels right now so its going to be a while. Next time I am in my house panels I'll look at neutral/ground bonding in the 2 separate boxes and try to get a pic and update the thread.
 
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