Cognito Motorsports Pitman and Idler Braces

[TurboTahoe]

Hi guys,

You may recall a thread discussing how to 'beef up' the front end of our trucks. I know that my Tahoe has very loose and imprecise steering, and on freeway at speed, it can be rather unnerving. Also, my tires are wearing unevenly. Perhaps you guys have similar problems.

One of the members suggested Cognito Motorsports' Pitman and Idler braces.

I've been searching and have found some really good information I thought I would share. First, here's a very detailed explanation of what these items are, and how they are installed:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Chevy/reviews/Cognito_steering/

In addition, the steering on our trucks tends to get more sloppy over time, sometimes not a lot of time. The Cognito kit supposedly helps to mitigate the wear, but one of the big culprits, especially when installing bigger wheels and tires, is the alarmingly loose steering, a result of an under-engineered idler support. Here's a solution to that:

http://hendersonslineup.com/uncategorized/supersteer-idler-arm-support-assembly-%E2%80%93-ss175/

I took my truck into my favorite line up shop, and my buddy Chuck showed me how worn my steering assembly and the ball joints are on my Tahoe. Well, it looks like its going to cost several hundred to fix it all (2 upper ball joints, pitman arm, and tie rod ends.). Throw in the two items above (Idler Pivot replacement and pitman/idler bracing) and we're now up to about $1500. Whew.

Doing the repairs and upgrades promises to:

1. Eliminate the steering play
2. Eliminate uneven tire wear
3. Eliminate future premature wear

but would be pretty hefty in price.

What do you guys think? Does this sound like a good solution? Should I consider something else? Do you have similar problems? How did you solve them? Anything that is less expensive but as effective?

Thanks,

Rob

 

[WarWagon]

Without a lift the front ends on our body style wore out before 100K. Just ask yourself if it is cheaper to replace these parts at the miles you are getting out of them vs. the upgraded parts cost and expected life.

 

[packratt]

If you decide to go with the Cognito braces, contact NorCal Nick. He's a vendor on the site that deals alot of these.

 

[schiker]

Does the Cognito stuff fit pre '99 trucks or the classic 90's era GMT-400 or whatever we are with the 6.5 trucks???

I thought our only options were quality parts, good grease, and regular sized tires. And use the bilestins or however you spell it shocks.

I know big lugged mud tires that start to wear uneven then appreciably accelerates wear worse than milder tires for our trucks. I had a set of offbrand BFGoodrich mudder style tire wear out my front end and they were just 285/75R16's. I replaced tierods, idler, and pitman and went to an all terrain tire with better wear performance for the tires and front end.

 

[chickenhunterbob]

Without no lift, huge tires...etc. the front end on my truck lasted 370,000 km.

Tuned it up last Easter weekend.

Lower ball joints are still good, replaced upper ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends and the connectors, (and outer CV boots) steers like a sports car again.

I went with NAPA (OEM) parts and suspect I will probably never replace any of them again.

My view is replace what's worn, some things seem to never wear out.

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

I don't think our front end needs beefed up, never heard of any big trouble with stock parts.

 

[ak diesel driver]

If your paying someone to do it have them do the lowers at the same time. It will save you some dough in the long run.

 

[TurboTahoe]

Without no lift, huge tires...etc. the front end on my truck lasted 370,000 km.

Tuned it up last Easter weekend.

Lower ball joints are still good, replaced upper ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends and the connectors, (and outer CV boots) steers like a sports car again.

I went with NAPA (OEM) parts and suspect I will probably never replace any of them again.

My view is replace what's worn, some things seem to never wear out.

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

I don't think our front end needs beefed up, never heard of any big trouble with stock parts.

On the 'burb, which is all-stock wheels and suspension, I tend to agree that OEM parts seem "OK", or acceptable (marginally). I did have to put new pitman arm in a couple of years ago around 80K miles. Personally, that seems like premature wear, given that the little minivan is at 200K miles, and still handles and steers extremely well, with no slop or toe-in problems.

I think that if you have a lift with large tires, the wear rate is much higher. Granted, the Tahoe is just really messed up, having had a complete rebuild of the steering back at 135K. Here it is only 185K, and it's toast AGAIN.

I believe that this IS a weak spot in the design, and I'm trying to fight it by putting in more well-designed parts and add-ons.

-Rob

 

[TurboTahoe]

Does the Cognito stuff fit pre '99 trucks or the classic 90's era GMT-400 or whatever we are with the 6.5 trucks???

I thought our only options were quality parts, good grease, and regular sized tires. And use the bilestins or however you spell it shocks.

I know big lugged mud tires that start to wear uneven then appreciably accelerates wear worse than milder tires for our trucks. I had a set of offbrand BFGoodrich mudder style tire wear out my front end and they were just 285/75R16's. I replaced tierods, idler, and pitman and went to an all terrain tire with better wear performance for the tires and front end.

My understanding is that YES, both SuperSteer and Cognito have parts for the pre '99 trucks, I talked to both of the firms on the phone, and they assured me that they have kits for our trucks. As you can see, I have both a Tahoe and 'burb, which are pretty much identical setups to the pickups.

-Rob

 

[TurboTahoe]

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

You know, I'm usually pretty handy with repairs, but I've tried doing ball joints and pitman arms myself. Without a lift and suspension repair parts, It's a bear. I'll look into again, but last time I said "Uncle" and went to visit my buddy Chuck. He had it done within an hour and a half.

-Rob

 

[Paveltolz]

I have a Rancho Rough Country 3" lift and 285 BF Goodrich tires. Prior to having the lift done, i reversed the Torsion Key turn up the PO did, replaced upper, lower ball joints, and everything between and including the outer tie rod ends with NAPA parts. 2 years later, the steering is starting to feel a little loose and last November I snapped a tie rod end prior to entering a curve with a nice 70 degree drop off. Fortunately there was a pull out area straight ahead before entering the curve because straight was the only direction it would go!

The outer tie rod end had shattered at the pivot ball. On closer inspection of the whole assembly, it appears that the outer tie rod ends are at the limit of upward travel with the truck under full weight. This means there is nothing for the tie rods to do but go metal on metal as the truck unweights during normal or extreme suspension travel (I hope this is making sense).

Solutions appear to be one of two things. Different lift kit (BDS), or drop back to stock to restore the suspension angles to a safer position. Oh yeah, two year old boots on new axles are torn...again, extreem angles induced by the wrong lift kit. I actually blame the installer more than I fault the kit, but that is a longer story.

 

[SmithvilleD]

There were a few threads that went around about a year ago relating to joint failures (as in joint breakage) on one or two trucks using braces like these. Believe they were the GM truck's the next generation newer than ours, but similar design.

I don't bring this forward thinking that the braces were necessarily at fault. But I would do some searching to see if any cause/effect was figured out. Depending on how grown together your T-bars & lower control arms are, I guess you could yank the bars & then cycle the suspension thru it's maximum travels & steering angles, to see if any joints get put near/beyond their range of motion like the tie-rod angle situation described above.

The braces look like a good idea. Tough to know if they improve durability enough to justify the cost. You might see if you can find anyone that's run the braces 50k + miles to see what their experience has been.

 

[6.2 turbo]

I've been down that road ,that is why my 97 has a solid axle,the 8 lug ifs seems to hold up better than the 6 lug.

 

[TurboTahoe]

I've been down that road ,that is why my 97 has a solid axle,the 8 lug ifs seems to hold up better than the 6 lug.

I don't understand this. I'm asking a question about the steering assembly, and comments come up about moving to a solid axle. Doesn't the solid axle have the same steering assembly? How does moving to a solid axle keep the tie rods and pitman/idler arms from wearing out?

-Rob

 

[TurboTahoe]

How does moving to a solid axle keep the tie rods and pitman/idler arms from wearing out?

-Rob

 

[Pepperidge]

I would go ahead and replace the pitman arm while you are at it...and make sure there is no steering box slack...there are beliefs that this can cause the pitman arm to break when using these braces...

 

[6.2 turbo]

I have a dodge steering box and pitman arm, it has a hole instead of a stud, you can't use a idler arm or the tiny factory tie rod ends it all has to be custom made. A solid axle conversion is not for everyone.

 

[TurboTahoe]

Hi guys, I just talked to Mac at http://www.exaxt.ca/steering_assembly.asp

Nice guy, certainly knows his stuff. He said that his kit doesn't fit our trucks (I suggested he look into adapting his stuff to the 6.5 trucks, he listened carefully, and said that he understands that there are a lot of 6.5s on the road, and that people just keep fixing them and running them and that he would consider it) and that in his opinion, the SuperSteer and Cognito bracing is the way to go. He said that the 2001+ trucks suffer from really bad steering system design. He also was in favor of using the "Heavy Duty" parts from NAPA and others, he said they hold up a lot longer.

-Rob

 

[packratt]

The NAPA Heavy Duty steering components are made in the USA by Spicer IIRC. The lower grade/cheaper Napa components are made in China.

Make sure the guy behind the counter comprehends that you want the high dollar parts when you ask for them. It may require smacking him up side the head with a pitman arm to get it through his skull.

 

[TurboTahoe]

Make sure the guy behind the counter comprehends that you want the high dollar parts when you ask for them. It may require smacking him up side the head with a pitman arm to get it through his skull.

Now that's funny. :laughing:

-Rob

 

[schiker]

Here are some thoughts of mine....

After taking a little closer look at stuff. I like the supersteer idler mechanism but not so sure about the Cognito stuff. Supersteer looks to make a beefier idler body mechanism than stock GM. Combine this with Cognito idler linkage and that should be a much beefier idler mechanism and arm/draglink connection.

It looks to me the Cognito in general will split the load of the joint at the draglink between the stock greasable joint and the cognito rodends (non greasable?). This will lessen the load on the draglink joint(s) only but only as long as the rodend is good and tight (its going to wear out too). And at the same time concentrates a little more force back into the idler body and the steering box output shaft (because the linkages are now more rigid supposedly). I don't think the actual pitman arm or idler arm linkages are flexing or have strength issue but the joint quality is suspect. A high grade aftermarket unit might be pretty much equivalent to GM + Cognito????


The steering box may be strong enough??? but the idler body is just as bad a weak point issue for the GM parts quality for the whole idler mechanism as the draglink joint.


You have to look at Cognito webpage home for a picture of the 93-98 idler pivot mechanism (that mimics the steering box). The newer model trucks actually looks better than the older trucks.

On edit a high grade idler pivot may be as good as supersteer? The supersteer looks more finished than a typical steering part but not sure just how much stronger it is than quality aftermarket part.