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Banks sidewinder exhaust manifold group buy.

NVW said:
I've had almost zero success with Permatex liquid teflon on hyd. fittings. I would use teflon tape before I would use liquid teflon on studs. Tape has always worked on hyd. fittings M2C.
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Its all I use, and I just redid my fuel system with hydraulic and AN fittings and zero issues, on top of that, used it on SBC's countless others, never ever had an issue until now! :(
 
If you intend to run the motor with the oil cooler ports plugged,you must also remove a cup plug ,located under the oil filter. It looked like you had the cooler ports plugged,might just be angle fittings ?
 
turbovanman said:
Its all I use, and I just redid my fuel system with hydraulic and AN fittings and zero issues, on top of that, used it on SBC's countless others, never ever had an issue until now! :(
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AN fittings seal in the taper, not the threads. Just about every fitting on a vehicle either seals in a taper of an o-ring. Now fittings that use pipe threads are a diff story....:)

turbovanman said:
2000 psi?
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Hydraulic system I'm guessing (dump, loader, plow, etc) rather than a straight automotive application.
 
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Looks good looking forward to how it works.

I am just questioning little things about it and why there seems to be leaking studs in general. What is best practices for similar applications etc. I am not saying right or wrong just discussing it.

With products like Loctite head bolt and water jacket sealant its for bolts put on wet tighten and it cures to a solid seal. I wonder about installing studs curing then tightening the nut. IF the stud rotates the solid cured sealant might fracture just enough especially if there is not enough length or amount of sealant. Maybe Blue Loctite locks the stud and seals it?

I mean pipe dope as generic brush on sealant you can pick your flavor.

Why do TTY bolts not typically leak? I propose its because the sealant stays put and gets to the best area for sealing. Plus the bolt probably stretches the thread and really tightens the threads in the block with the sealant. Plus sealant might crack up and re-cure somehow. But even the same stuff might not seal studs??? Might not be enough high pressure scrubbing rotation with studs for the TTY stuff?????
 
In the interest of discussion (and a bit OT):

All bolts "stretch" when you torque them. TTY or not. The diff with tty bolts is in order to achieve maximum clamping, the torque value is such that you take the bolt to yeild strength. Meaning it is permanently deformed. This is where any fastener will achieve maximum clamp. Its not about sealing, other than proper clamping of the gasket.

All bolts in a water jacket will leak without sealant. The only time I have seen it not leak is the bolt finally rusts the threads shut, but then you have other issues....

All threads have a clearance. They have to or you wouldn't be able to thread it together. There's also always a margin of error in the threads themselves. They're never all even and parralell, even a couple thou error across a run is enough to allow a leak. Same as the male thread never touches bottom in the female thread. If it did, you wouldn't be able to assemble them. So you always end up with a "channel" that runs up the threads.

Toss in the errors possible in a mass produced product like an engine block and sealant becomes a nessesity. So if the ARP studs are manufactured to a higher error tolerance, it makes the error in the gm block even worse.

Threads look "perfect" to the naked eye, but start talking machinist tolerances and they are pretty sloppy things....
 
Here a decent little picture that kind of makes the "leak" easier to see:

thread.gif


You can see how even if every male thread were to "butt up" against the female when torqued, there is still a gap between the two that will run the whole length of the fastener at the high and low points of both male and female threads. It might only be a thou or two, but thats more than enough for 7-15 psi fluid to leak profusely. This difference in profile is needed in order to make it possible to to assemble and disassemble the parts. If you didnt have it, the bolt would not thread into the hole. Its this space that a thread sealer closes up.

I hope that makes sense. Pictures always seem to help....

:)
 
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great white said:
AN fittings seal in the taper, not the threads. Just about every fitting on a vehicle either seals in a taper of an o-ring. Now fittings that use pipe threads are a diff story....:)


Hydraulic system I'm guessing (dump, loader, plow, etc) rather than a straight automotive application.
Click to expand...

Agreed with the AN fittings but you still need to screw it into the unit, IE fuel pump, water pump etc, which use pipe threads, :p

I think Hydraulic's use ORB, which have an o-ring but now, we are totally getting off topic, o_O
 
6.2 turbo said:
If you intend to run the motor with the oil cooler ports plugged,you must also remove a cup plug ,located under the oil filter. It looked like you had the cooler ports plugged,might just be angle fittings ?
Click to expand...
OH OK. No Im going to run an oil cooler, they just ship the block with plugs in it to keep the oil in and dirt out.
 
turbovanman said:
Agreed with the AN fittings but you still need to screw it into the unit, IE fuel pump, water pump etc, which use pipe threads, :p

I think Hydraulic's use ORB, which have an o-ring but now, we are totally getting off topic, o_O
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Technically, you don't need a sealer on pipe threads either...pipe thread expands into the bore as its tightened.

.:p
 
great white said:
Here a decent little picture that kind of makes the "leak" easier to see:

thread.gif


You can see how even if every male thread were to "butt up" against the female when torqued, there is still a gap between the two that will run the whole length of the fastener at the high and low points of both male and female threads. It might only be a thou or two, but thats more than enough for 7-15 psi fluid to leak profusely. This difference in profile is needed in order to make it possible to to assemble and disassemble the parts. If you didnt have it, the bolt would not thread into the hole. Its this space that a thread sealer closes up.

I hope that makes sense. Pictures always seem to help....

:)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with you and will add.... And I think there can be more to it like the amount of stretch vs length to diameter ratio and depth.

From the bottom threads. The first thread on bolt thread 1:

Threads 1-3 do nothing for sealing. From the bottom threads 4-5-6 might be relatively dry of sealant in the root since its machine threads and scrubbed off some sealant. Cured sealant on threads 7-8 might fracture if stud rotates just a little (but there is less fracturing of sealant further in the hole down at threads 4-5-6 maybe). Hence the thought of adding a drop to the female threads down in the hole to try and ensure threads 4-5-6 are good and coated.
 
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Not really, the thread sealant is for the clearance in the peaks and valleys of the thread interface, not the faying surfaces of the threads. There will always be clearance between the root and crest of a thread. That's where the fluid leak comes from. Thread sealant fills this gap.where it is on the fastener is pretty much irrelevant.

Torque and sealing are two different subjects. Torquing a bolt doesn't cause it to seal. It may, but that's not the way it is designed.
 
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I agree threads don't torque and seal. I am thinking of the cured and potted stud in the block. And question if tightening the nut torques on the cured sealant and can fracture the cured sealant if its thin at the top threads. ????
 
turbovanman said:
Agreed with the AN fittings but you still need to screw it into the unit, IE fuel pump, water pump etc, which use pipe threads, :p

I think Hydraulic's use ORB, which have an o-ring but now, we are totally getting off topic, o_O
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My equipment hydraulics range from NPT, ORB and JIC, it was on hydraulics that I never had much luck with liquid teflon.
 
Got some paint on it. This was all brushed on with a sponge brush. I used only about 4oz out of the paint. It mixes 4 to 1. I will never use the rest of the paint before the hardener go's bad so I'd sell it if someone else would like a red engine. This is the high temp ceramic paint. Was $59 I think + shipping. I'll let it go for $30 shipped. Its good for many other thing besides an engine too. The next guy can use a few oz out of it then sell it on to another member???

DSCF1954.JPG DSCF1955.JPG DSCF1956.JPG
 
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