Axle Wrap Stopping Ladder Bars

[Paveltolz]

One of the many features on SS Force’s Truck that stood out was his ladder bars. While they looked great, they were designed to stop the ‘Axle Wrap’ he was experiencing with his 4:10 rear-end and 37” tires. Did I mention they looked great?



Truth be told, I didn’t think my truck really needed them with the 3:73 rear and stock tires but a short demonstration indicated that there was an issue, all be it not as great as SSForce’s, that these would help solve. Well Ok then, I'll bite (besides, they look great)!

His bars were fabricated at home in a joint effort with his father. We were discussing their benefits and my motor build he said they could make up a set for my truck too if I was interested. Can a get an Amen from the crowd? Heck Yeah... I jumped all over that offer!:thumbsup:

 

[Paveltolz]

Well, it has been almost a year but good things come to those who wait and I started to get teaser pictures from SSForce. Fact is, his father works long hours as does he and my schedule has me away from home a lot too so we all stayed patient and let things come together as time permitted without rushing to complete a project half-assed.
The first parts they made were the mounts that are welded to the rear end. Cut from ¼” plate, they are a sculpted work of art. I didn’t get a picture of them solo but here’s a close up.


Likewise with the forward mounts. Simpler design given the mounting location on the frame but still very hefty and functional.

 

[Paveltolz]

Progress

In June came pictures of the bars mostly assembled. These got me anxious but again, schedules were harder to align than all 8 planets but things were shaping up and all of us were relieved at the progress and sensing that the end of the project was coming into view.


In consulting about the final product, we discussed options instead of cross section tubing (hence, ladder bars), I suggested a solid piece with either 6.5 or a bow-tie cut out would be interesting. Wish Granted.
The result speaks for itself.

 

[btfarm]

That's a mighty handsome piece right there! What color do they get? Black?

Sent from my SCH-I535

 

[Paveltolz]

I was in the middle of an exercise I coordinate when SSForce contacted me to say the planets had almost aligned if I could get it together and link up with him, his dad and a friend with the right welder to get the finished product installed. Upon seeing them in person for the first time, I was amazed at how light the bars are but, at the same time, how very sturdy. Nice work too.
Bars with light coat of protectant paint.


Mike tacking things in place.


Bars in place, ready for removal for final welding (otherwise the bushing will melt).

 

[Paveltolz]

Performance Improvement

So why is this bling thing in the performance section...As I said, I doubted there was a functional need for these on my truck but the results were more than readily apparent.

I thought I would realize the benefits in time but the truck accelerated so much better that for once, my expectation management was not needed...I was not dissapointed and, rather, very much impressed. Finally, something that worked better than 'as advertised.'

The truck doesn't 'settle in' or squat down in the back anymore on acceleration. Even under light throttle application from a full stop, the truck feels like it is just going rather than the, "let me think about it first" throttle feed back I've always had. For more aggressive starts or while rolling along, the loss of hesitation is very pronounced. Wow. No wonder the truck has always felt like it didn't want to get out of its own way...it wasn't!

Steering. The truck has always had the feeling that it was changing course rather than maneuvering or being driven through traffic. With the ladder bars in place, the truck drives through corners and lane changes in a much more responsive and precise manner as well. That was an unexpected result and almost un nerving as now I had to stop anticipating curves, turns, lane change techniques etc.

Fantastic. I wish I'd known about these things years ago.

So, not a marketed item so find yourselves some steel, welder, time, friends or a combination of the above and do yourselves a favor and Upgrade your ride.

Cheers.:hello:

 

[SS FORCE]

So why is this bling thing in the performance section...As I said, I doubted there was a functional need for these on my truck but the results were more than readily apparent.

I thought I would realize the benefits in time but the truck accelerated so much better that for once, my expectation management was not needed...I was not dissapointed and, rather, very much impressed. Finally, something that worked better than 'as advertised.'

The truck doesn't 'settle in' or squat down in the back anymore on acceleration. Even under light throttle application from a full stop, the truck feels like it is just going rather than the, "let me think about it first" throttle feed back I've always had. For more aggressive starts or while rolling along, the loss of hesitation is very pronounced. Wow. No wonder the truck has always felt like it didn't want to get out of its own way...it wasn't!

Steering. The truck has always had the feeling that it was changing course rather than maneuvering or being driven through traffic. With the ladder bars in place, the truck drives through corners and lane changes in a much more responsive and precise manner as well. That was an unexpected result and almost un nerving as now I had to stop anticipating curves, turns, lane change techniques etc.

Fantastic. I wish I'd known about these things years ago.

So, not a marketed item so find yourselves some steel, welder, time, friends or a combination of the above and do yourselves a favor and Upgrade your ride.

Cheers.:hello:

Glad to see your liking them so much. And again Im sorry that this was such a long project. But they look great and I cant wait to run our trucks side by side again to see the differences. Maybe even tag along on a small joy ride :hihi: As for the "not marketed" part. In conversations with my father, if there is enough of an interest we would be willing to fabricate the bars and provide all the hardware in a kit. (beings that our schedule has slowed and the planets seems to be holding still, production would be must faster:bananaAs of right now I have been unable to source a weld on kit like the one Paveltolz and I are currently sporting. Most are a bolt on style that to me has too many parts, is semi flimsy, and most of all doesn't secure the rear end like its weld on counterpart. Not to mention the custom flare of Paul's. It is an honor to have some of my handy work hanging out under your rig

 

[ak diesel driver]

Looking good paul

 

[Will L.]

Looks good. Yeah they make a nice improvement when done right, and by the sounds of it those are.

 

[Paveltolz]

I guess meant to say that the bars made the truck feel tighter, lively and responsive. I could literally make this truck feel like it was swimming down the road by gently sawing the steering wheel back and forth.
Not happening with these things on the truck.

Thanks for the compliments on the looks too. I wanted them to “Pop” and while waiting to figure out what final finish and color (not purple) decided to do the ‘plastic dip’ or coating treatment. Well, it didn't go too well as the Plastic Coat seemed to react with the paint already on the bars and things went south in a hurry.


So, I removed the ‘old’ and the new with Paint Stripper and a Wire wheel and recoated them with Krylon primer, flat black and then gloss black. You can see where the gloss black ran out mid-way on one of them. I dropped off the truck my favorite transmission & driveline shop as the front differential is acting up again and I headed out of town for the rest of the week.


I still wanted the plastic coating so when I got back from this last trip, I made up a new rig to hang them on that would allow maneuvering to get at the odd angles. They came out pretty good save for a couple of spots where there is still something causing some orange peel.


I lightly sanded the surface, applied white flat paint (same pigment as the plastic coat) and it pretty well masked the issue.

Then, to help show off the Bow-Ties, I edged them with red vinyl pin-stripe tape.




Now, all I need is to get my truck back! Apparently, the front differential has grenaded. Probably a result of the CV half shaft crap I went through this past spring.

 

[3500GMC]

Use a dog bone link (two heims end to end) at the front to eliminate any chance of binding as the suspension cycles.

Looks good!

 

[devildogadam]

Paul, I have a question from your first post. What was the short demonstration, how do you do it and how many people does it take? I would like to see how bad my truck could use a pair of these Purdy things. I am assuming that all of our trucks would benefit greatly from them. And ssforce, how far off are you from completing a kit and do you have a price range in mind?

 

[SS FORCE]

Paul, I have a question from your first post. What was the short demonstration, how do you do it and how many people does it take? I would like to see how bad my truck could use a pair of these Purdy things. I am assuming that all of our trucks would benefit greatly from them. And ssforce, how far off are you from completing a kit and do you have a price range in mind?

The demonstration I showed Paul takes two. I put the truck in gear and power brake it to simulate the truck powering forward. This will show you how far your rear differential pivots when power is applied. Then I put the tuck in reverse and power braked again to show the pumpkin moving in the opposite direction. Pauls truck did not show as much movement with his semi-stock tires and gears. My truck with the 4.56's and 37'' tires was bad My truck also used to shudder when powering into it from a stop as the pumpkin moved around behind me, and it was even worse in reverse if I was backing up a trailer. The rear end would pop and chirp the tires when backing up because the pumpkin was moving so bad. Now all of that is gone.

As far as the kit goes. We use all grade 8 bolts and 1/4'' steel for the mountings plates, I used 1 1/8'' tube steel for Paul's bars and i believe 1/8'' plate for the bowtie. My bars are all 1'' and im looking to make another pair similar to Paul's. All said and done The kit will be $300 + shipping. Your choice of the 3 bar setup like what is on my truck or the plate like Paul's.

Time frame. Once I get the PM ill start. Expect a turn around time of two weeks, That gives me time to order bushings, cut, weld, and assemble for shipment.

 

[Paveltolz]

Trucks back and so are the bars

Thanks for explaining that one Steve, I didn't trust my verbiage.

Got the truck back today with the front diff. replaced and didn't hesitate to re-install the bars.

Not too shabby looking if I do say so myself.



"Up Skirt"


A word about the plastic coat. It's sprayed on a bit dry so it has a rough texture which is not conducive to cleaning...really holds the dirt and the stuff off my hands. I'll go out to the salt flats this weekend and then pull them for powder coating later.

I'll also need to find a way to mark them "Right" and Left" as they are mirrored but are custom fit to the truck so they aren't interchangeable. It was dueces sorting them out at first but they are in ok.

 

[btfarm]

Stamp the left and right sides when you strip them somewhere out of sight.
They look great!

Sent from my SCH-I535

 

[scottm]

I have built a lot of axles for racing and desert rigs, and I recommend you look at two things: First put a straight-edge on the back of the axle tubes. Weld shrinkage on the front of the tube will 'kink' the tube forward, resulting in a high spot on the back of the tube, right behind the welded area. Also 3500gmc has a good point - leaf springs flatten out when compressed, which moves the axle backward. At full bump the rear spring eyelet moves back 2-3 inches on the shackles, so the axle moves back by half that much. A rigid front ladder bar mount will fight the backward movement. To test for binding, compress the springs using lengths of chain around the frame and 2 floor jacks. Also cycle the springs with the ladder bar front mount bolts out to see how much the axle wants to move.

 

[Mike K3500]

I had L&L ladders on an old square body Chevy of mine... Rode crazy stiff. In the winter time it acted like it had a locked rear end. They really bound the suspension up.
I think they need a front shackle to let the ladder bars float a little yet stop axle from wrapping.

 

[schiker]

Use a dog bone link (two heims end to end) at the front to eliminate any chance of binding as the suspension cycles.

Looks good!

This would make a neat shackle. I didn't see it at first but if you turn it at an angle I guess 90 degrees to the frame or enough angle and or length so it doesn't try to straighten completely out before the leaf spring does it would pivot. Clock them 90 degrees would allow some movement when the axle is at a large angle one tire up and one down (wouldn't it) .

I like a firm rear end :rolleyes5: and dislike the hopping /chatter I get in reverse sometimes. The Roadmaster spring reduced mine some but ladder bars would be nice.

I had a half leaf spring added to the stack on a half ton once and it helped a little too but again not as much as ladder bars.

 

[SS FORCE]

I have built a lot of axles for racing and desert rigs, and I recommend you look at two things: First put a straight-edge on the back of the axle tubes. Weld shrinkage on the front of the tube will 'kink' the tube forward, resulting in a high spot on the back of the tube, right behind the welded area. Also 3500gmc has a good point - leaf springs flatten out when compressed, which moves the axle backward. At full bump the rear spring eyelet moves back 2-3 inches on the shackles, so the axle moves back by half that much. A rigid front ladder bar mount will fight the backward movement. To test for binding, compress the springs using lengths of chain around the frame and 2 floor jacks. Also cycle the springs with the ladder bar front mount bolts out to see how much the axle wants to move.

I will have to try to compress my springs and see what happens. I have been running mine for 3 years now and have not had an issue. I have looked at other kits being made for out trucks and my setup is quite similar. All the kits I see for our trucks are bolt on and do not use heim/dogbone links. The one I was looking to purchase before building mine were RCD brand and only had a single rear bushing unlike my dual setup. It didnt look like it would offer much in the way of stopping axle rap. Not to mention the $700 price tag. I know the heim/ dog bone would be of great use in offroad applications where articulation comes in to play. I have had my truck on and off road, both unloaded and with 2500lbs in the bed (springs compressed) doing steep climbs and lots of rocky roads, no issues so far. Both the bars and suspension seems to be functioning without strain or any added ride stiffness apart from what the ladderbars are designed to do. Articulation was a big concern of mine beings that I was not using a heim joints, I do know that apart from stopping the axle rap the whole rear end seems to behave and manage itself better.

 

[3500GMC]

A lot of your off roaders with big articulation just run one ladder (centered and helping protect the prop shaft) with a pivot or shackle up front. (pic)

Back in the oldie days of drag racing guys that retained the leaf springs needed a ladder bar setup to control the wrap. Leaf spring 'slider' kits were devolped and gave ultimate control of geometry to the ladder. The spring was there to provide only spring rate. Leaves were added and subtracted for preload without worry of throwing the car into the wall as was a problem without positive positioning with the ladders.

.