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ATT DE exhaust for sale- gave up, reversed all my GM-3 bits back on

Sentinelist

Sentinelist

Active Member
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Location
North Texas
As an engineer with a slight OCD streak, I absolutely hate those rare days that come along when you realize you don't have the time, tools or desire to complete a planned project and you have to give up. Or that it was far more work than had been anticipated. Today is one of those days for me, when the "bolt-in" ease of the A-Team Turbo I was expecting quickly turned into a "this just isn't worth the effort" nightmare and waste of a Sunday. Things were still promising after I got the easy exhaust manifold-to-turbo bolt out. But it quickly turned sour when the next one came off in two pieces, leaving the stud behind. Genius design, GM, WTF. Not that the back two closest to the valve cover and nearly impossible to reach were going to come any more successfully. The only way around that after doing some searching was to remove the exhaust manifold off the block and drop the entire system out, then take a torch to the bolts. A quick look at that assembly on the truck and litany of extra pipes and wires surrounding what little of the manifold I could see, and I threw in the towel. Then, after realizing I should also expect to cut my upper intake manifold down to fit the turbo inlet boot(s?!) properly, the whole thing went back into the box.

Sorry, but this just isn't worth the cost, time and effort *for a sparingly used vehicle* (tertiary in my fleet, might see 1k mi. a year), and is not an easy bolt-in upgrade. It probably is if it's your daily or second vehicle and you put several thousand on it a year or have HD needs. My rig is basically a just an emergency needs 4x4 RV for camping by my family a few times a year. I'm sure the end result is enjoyable, but it's not going to be night-and-day worth it *for me*. The ATT the Diamond Eye exhaust are now for sale for anyone here that wants it, $750 shipped for the turbo and $260 shipped for the exhaust, or $950 shipped for both. They'll go up on eBay the first week of June if nobody here wants them- turbo was never mounted obviously and is like-new, fittings still in the box, as is the exhaust (never opened). Leroy's support was fantastic when I ordered it all in January and I highly recommend LeroyDiesel.com, but I've humbly met my match (re: it's not him or any of you, it's me). This is all quite annoying after I've successfully completed seemingly more challenging projects upgrading all the ancillaries of an old Porsche and largely keeping my other 3 daily runners with 100k+ miles out of the shop for all but the heaviest of work. Happens to everyone at some point I guess, and I'll later humbly remember this day before considering the next upgrade item so I won't waste another. Mea culpa.

Silver lining: My stock GM-3 has no play, still moves the truck and camper nicely doing what I want it to do, and I replaced the serp belt while I was at it. Hooray. I'm going to go spend the rest of my day on my patio with beer. Sorry for the frustration.
 
Sometimes you just need to farm some things out or get some friends over to help deal with frozen bolts and nuts. Leroy himself my be close enough to take on the challenge. A little hot to go camping in AZ, but, we could knock it out in a weekend.

You do not need to drop the manifold to get the other nuts off the turbo. Lots of penetrating oil that sits for weeks, and some interesting wrenches with cheater bars and universal joint sockets will reach them. Nut splitters, flame wrenches, and other interesting things can get the job done. Seriously, I would cut the turbo clean off above the manifold to get it out of the way and be able to reach the nuts or drill the studs out. GM3's are nearly scrap value anyway.

I don't think I could get drunk enough to leave a GM3 on ever. I would pull the entire engine if I had to to get it off. :rambo:
 
I've asked before but dont remember, where do you live?
I bet you could find a good used exhaust manifold for cheap if you post a want ad. I think I have one out in the shop?? If you can get the other 3 nuts off then drilling the one stud is not going to be hard to do.
One trick for me on one or more of the bolts it to reach up from under the truck with a long extention to reach the nuts.
 
Thanks, guys- I appreciate the understanding. If I for some reason decide to keep it all, I'm going to farm it out to somebody, at some point later when I'm ready to pay for that kind of labor. I'd rather just have the majority of that cash back in my account at this point. I just took the rig for a spin and everything's back to normal and humming nicely. It's still plenty quick for what it is, so something like this kit is really a want more than it is a need- we'll see if I can find a buyer for it. I also wonder what the life expectancy of a GM-3 is. If you may recall, I thought I burned up my turbo over Christmas, but it ended up just being low oil and an oil pressure sensor that had fallen apart. It was a late diagnosis, hence all this stuff on my workbench now. For most parts on this old rig, the mantra is 'run it until it breaks' or becomes unsafe, due to its purpose and place in my fleet. While certainly not neglected, there's just not room for many big splurges for it that aren't strictly needed.

Leroy- I'm in the Dallas area. Thanks for the manifold offer, but I just don't have the desire or time right now to tear into this again any more than I did today. It pushes the limits on what I typically hand over to a shop to keep myself sane, happy and available for my family. I can run new fuel lines, but I'm not big on drilling out seized bolts and using a grinder. I did try that extension to reach the nuts though after dismounting the wheel- that's when the second nut came off without its lug.
 
Texas Hospitality (IRC couple of the you can't eat it all steaks) is all I'd ask after we remove with extreme prejudice a GM3...

Where all do you take the thing camping? That camper and a long trip is where you would love the parts on your bench.

The GM3 turbo usually overworks and kills the engine before it fails. The engine failure can take the turbo with it. With the 2500 mile severe service oil change interval or regular changes the turbos last a long time. The GM3 turbo I had lived through 3 engines before I removed it 17 years and 177K later. Last engine the bearings were shot, but, the turbo still had good bearings.

With the low miles you put on it the ATT will take a long time to pay for itself in fuel.
 
I have the passenger side turbo manifold, PM me and we'll make a deal.

If this is a tertiary driver, then that's all the more reason to not give up. I've been through hairy issues on frozen bolts for the front bearings and I just gave it a break, asked for input here and went back at it. Same deal with replacing front suspension bushings. Just gave it a rest and went back at it with suggestions from this here forum. I've got the jobs done, learned a lot in the process and the truck was better for it. Just don't take advice from the crazy guy who drills too deep right through a cylinder wall.
 
Big T said:
I have the passenger side turbo manifold, PM me and we'll make a deal.

If this is a tertiary driver, then that's all the more reason to not give up. I've been through hairy issues on frozen bolts for the front bearings and I just gave it a break, asked for input here and went back at it. Same deal with replacing front suspension bushings. Just gave it a rest and went back at it with suggestions from this here forum. I've got the jobs done, learned a lot in the process and the truck was better for it. Just don't take advice from the crazy guy who drills too deep right through a cylinder wall.
Click to expand...
I think we would all like to hear this story.:)
 
NVW said:
[/B]I think we would all like to hear this story.:)
Click to expand...

It was posted here with video. Crazy Russian guy. Was drilling out one of the water pump bolts that had sheared off and drilled right through the cylinder wall. Can we say P400 time?
 
WarWagon said:
Texas Hospitality (IRC couple of the you can't eat it all steaks) is all I'd ask after we remove with extreme prejudice a GM3...

Where all do you take the thing camping? That camper and a long trip is where you would love the parts on your bench.

The GM3 turbo usually overworks and kills the engine before it fails. The engine failure can take the turbo with it. With the 2500 mile severe service oil change interval or regular changes the turbos last a long time. The GM3 turbo I had lived through 3 engines before I removed it 17 years and 177K later. Last engine the bearings were shot, but, the turbo still had good bearings.

With the low miles you put on it the ATT will take a long time to pay for itself in fuel.
Click to expand...

Good to know. So are you saying you wouldn't blame me for keeping the GM-3? Or you still would do anything to see me get rid of it? :) I'm not sure how much I really have to gain with the ATT besides just the piece of mind of modern engineering, a new important component, and possibly maybe noticeably greater efficiency. None of that I really *need* as the GM-3 is fulfilling all of those items *for me* at the moment. But if it blew, there's no other route I'd take (which I thought initially, and is why I bought all this). If you were closer, I'd gladly spend a day with you seeing if you could get through two 72 oz. steaks if you did the job for me, ha! One of those famous spots is in Amarillo.

Here's another piece of humble pie- we haven't taken it anywhere yet for camping. The truck came around last November, camper in December (I drove to Denver and back to acquire it, where I thought I blew my turbo- nerve wracking and slow drive home with a failing OPS, killed my plan of taking it up Pikes Peak!), and have been sorting and prepping it since. There's not much left to do except try and find time in our busy schedules, but I've first wanted to get this project done and a 200w solar Optima battery bank w/ 1500w inverter upgrade to the camper's electrical system complete that I also have waiting to go in. My wife is also wanting to remodel the inside of the thing... Hoping to just do some regional stuff with the family- Ozarks, local state parks for a weekend, maybe all the way down to Big Bend for some trails. I don't have any plans to tow anything, just the load of the camper stuffed with stuff.

Big T said:
I have the passenger side turbo manifold, PM me and we'll make a deal.

If this is a tertiary driver, then that's all the more reason to not give up. I've been through hairy issues on frozen bolts for the front bearings and I just gave it a break, asked for input here and went back at it. Same deal with replacing front suspension bushings. Just gave it a rest and went back at it with suggestions from this here forum. I've got the jobs done, learned a lot in the process and the truck was better for it. Just don't take advice from the crazy guy who drills too deep right through a cylinder wall.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, and I appreciate (and typically agree with) the encouragement. But it's probably just out of bounds with what I'm willing to take on due to my time/tools/skills/desire. With the Texas heat rapidly coming upon some of us, I doubt I'd get the willpower to tackle this again myself again even if I wanted to until the fall (re: October). I've got a guy who knows the GMT400 platform inside and out local to me here in DFW that I'm going to run this project by. I still hate the idea of likely having to cut down my upper intake manifold.

In weighing stuff like this on the truck, I frequently come back to "What if the engine gives out next year? I'm running on the best preventative maintenance I know of, luck and a prayer. It's got 280k on it, how important or smart is this? Will it be a waste?"
 
Interesting, I remember seeing a picture of that around the beginning of the year and went 'wtf' but forgot to ask. That would certainly help matters up top. Down below though...

And after reading that thread all the way through, I'm certain I'm not going to be able to get the ATT on myself. What would you charge if I drove down some Saturday with beer? :D
 
Sentinelist said:
Interesting, I remember seeing a picture of that around the beginning of the year and went 'wtf' but forgot to ask. That would certainly help matters up top. Down below though...

And after reading that thread all the way through, I'm certain I'm not going to be able to get the ATT on myself. What would you charge if I drove down some Saturday with beer? :D
Click to expand...

You will pass yourself on Pikes Peak with the ATT. The less back pressure from this turbo will help engine life. And if it does let go used 6.2's are $1500. Sadly used that option a couple times.
 
Sentinelist said:
Interesting, I remember seeing a picture of that around the beginning of the year and went 'wtf' but forgot to ask. That would certainly help matters up top. Down below though...

And after reading that thread all the way through, I'm certain I'm not going to be able to get the ATT on myself. What would you charge if I drove down some Saturday with beer? :D
Click to expand...

My problem right now is I have to many projects that I working on and will be busy on the weekends for the next several months at a minimum.
Im doing a TDI in a Sonoma and an Optimizer with alot of custom stuff on it now. After that though we could do something.
 
Interesting. And I forgot to mention I'm a good useful idiot that would help turn wrenches- just need guidance. I notice these productive work parties for big projects consist of more than 1 person! Having an experienced set of eyes and hands on this rig, who could also point out some 6.5 tips, and whom I would assist where needed, would be worth my trip down for a weekend. It may be late this year for me as well.

Let me think on it some more this week. If my long-term goal is to even rebuild this engine (or drop in another of the same) down the road, this might be worth my while. I've become attached to this specific platform for my rig for multiple reasons- I wouldn't ditch it and "oh well" replace it with a Ram even if something blew up, so I'm planning for it to be around one way or the other.
 
Burning oil said:
My problem right now is I have to many projects that I working on and will be busy on the weekends for the next several months at a minimum.
Im doing a TDI in a Sonoma and an Optimizer with alot of custom stuff on it now. After that though we could do something.
Click to expand...

Camping trip to AZ! - can't let Leroy have my steak! :hello:

You know tour Grand Canyon when it isn't freezing?
 
One of the irons in my fire is to build a camper for my truck. I'd like to go to AZ for a few days, so I'll take that steak when I get there :)
 
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