A quick spool valve alternative?

[n8in8or]

While researching Quick Spool Valves, I found a neat alternative that some people have done. It's not really a bolt-on, but it should be cheaper than the ready-made QSV that is available in the aftermarket. I've already been considering making a different exhaust header arrangement for my setup so this may be a cool addition to that. Regardless of whether I do or not, I thought it was a cool thing to share with you guys as a thought provoker.

So when the wastegate is closed, it would force all of the exhaust gas through just 1 scroll of the twin-scroll turbine housing which would cause the turbo to spool up much quicker. Then when the boost is high enough, the wastegate would open which would allow the exhaust gases to flow through both scrolls of the turbine which would allow the exhaust gases to flow through more easily. You could even control this to open on the highway for less restriction and use an oversized turbine housing. This is just another way to accomplish what @6.5L did with his QSV A-Team installation. It may be cheaper, but maybe not easier....I just thought it would be good to share. Plus, who doesn't like more turbo porn!!??

 

[Burning oil]

So are the 4 cylinder dead heading against the WG until it opens?
Ive been looking into this a little too. I want to do a custom center mount for Humvee/Hummers with ATT.
I built a very low profile QSV that I never tried yet, might give it a try on this project.

 

[Will L.]

I absolutely love when someone comes up with a creative idea. Thats one I would have never came up with.

Leroy, no.
All 8 join together, then get funneled into 1 side to ramp up flow speed.

 

[Burning oil]

Never mind about my dead head question, I see whats happening. In my set up the manifold feed into the pipe section not the flange.

 

[n8in8or]

So are the 4 cylinder dead heading against the WG until it opens?
Ive been looking into this a little too. I want to do a custom center mount for Humvee/Hummers with ATT.
I built a very low profile QSV that I never tried yet, might give it a try on this project.

No you wouldn't want to seperate the flow from half the engine. You would want all 8 cylinders to feed a common plenum but at low boost all the flow would go through half the turbo to get it spooling faster and then once spooled all the flow would go through the whole turbine to take advantage of the flow capabilities.

 

[n8in8or]

I absolutely love when someone comes up with a creative idea. Thats one I would have never came up with.

Leroy, no.
All 8 join together, then get funneled into 1 side to ramp up flow speed.

I agree. And it's good to see those ideas because even if it isn't something you can use it can open up your mind to an idea that will work for you.

 

[n8in8or]

Oh. It looks like the second image I pasted didn't work. Here it is again.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Does the valve operation work liner with boost or is it either open or closed ??

 

[n8in8or]

Does the valve operation work liner with boost or is it either open or closed ??

I would guess it's either open or closed. Perhaps with the correct boost controller it could modulate the amount of boost signal that is applied to the actuator? I'm guessing you're comparing the operation to a Variable Turbo with a Steed controller?

 

[6.5L]

It's definately creative but one of the issue I'm seeing is the overall package size. It would be very difficult to setup in our trucks and get to work properly. The next issue I see with it is flow. Will making that 90 tight bend hinder the flow potential to the point of negligible gains? Hard to say really. Maybe a really advanced idea but swapping a BD QSV in and then swapping the boost referenced wastegate on it to an electronic MAHLE wastegate that can be referenced off the throttle position or something of the such. So it can be open at low cruising throttle and start closing with more throttle until a desired rpm or boost is reached. IDK how one would go about it, but maybe an option to someone with a big pocket book and a larger brain for such a thing.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I would guess it's either open or closed. Perhaps with the correct boost controller it could modulate the amount of boost signal that is applied to the actuator? I'm guessing you're comparing the operation to a Variable Turbo with a Steed controller?

Not comparing, that wouldn't be quite the same ... just thinking is all...

I hope my setup will be the ticket when it's done & going..

I do see a variable turbine as the future...

I think fitting either valve would be more cumbersome than even the largest turbo.. depending on placement of items...

 

[6.5L]

The BD unit I had was actually pretty compact of a package in stock location. I'd have to do some inner fender trimming if I were to mount one in the current location with my manifold setup.

 

[n8in8or]

Not comparing, that wouldn't be quite the same ... just thinking is all...

I hope my setup will be the ticket when it's done & going..

I do see a variable turbine as the future...

I think fitting either valve would be more cumbersome than even the largest turbo.. depending on placement of items...

I'm quite interested to see how your setup works once you have it up and running. I like the simplicity of this as far as a package goes, but it is a little pricey. It just seems like there's so much that could be programmed into Steed's controller that it could really be a great system. Besides cost, the other concern I see is if/when an actuator goes bad - I don't know how often that is, but I know it's not unheard of. Please share when you have more progress to report!

 

[n8in8or]

The BD unit I had was actually pretty compact of a package in stock location. I'd have to do some inner fender trimming if I were to mount one in the current location with my manifold setup.

Didn't you have to relocate your coolant overflow and the AC accumulator to make the QSV fit? I think that's what Leroy was trying to avoid when he was developing his, but I don't recall for sure. I had thought at one time when I first conceived the header idea in my brain that I would try to incorporate some kind of flapper in the collector to act as a QSV, but the development of an actuator of appropriate size and strength and sealing the shafts and dealing with heat was just too much to develop at the time. I like the idea of a relatively bolt-on solution, but the BD unit just seems way too expensive for what it is. There are a lot more external wastegates on the market and there are even used ones floating around, so it seems that it could be a more economical solution. You do bring up a good point about the 90 degree flow. I'm going to do some searching and see if there's such a thing as a straight-through wastegate. If not, it seems that if it was oversized enough the 90 degree routing of the gases would be less of an issue. That was one thing I never really cared for with the QSV - how it is a perpendicular obstruction to the air when closed. Even when open there's still the butterfly and the shaft in the airstream....though I would guess that's probably not as large of an obstruction as the tight 90 of the wastegate. I also like how wastegates have been around for a long time and are proven, I don't know that any of the QSVs have failed, it's just a comment.

I like that we're getting to a point that there are some options to have multiple sized turbines though, this is cool territory to explore! I guess each option will be up to each individuals project parameters in the end.

 

[6.5L]

The QSV will only work with a twin scroll housing, so having a QSV butterfly when it's open is no different than the twin scroll housing. And the shaft doesn't really sit in the stream of flow for that reason. Also, the butterfly doesn't sit perpendicular to flow. The way it sits closed, is around a 45* angle towards the open volute, to promote airflow towards the open volute when closed. It really is a good design. As far as wastegates, something close to a open butterfly would work, similar to an exhaust brake in the downpipe type design. Another thing I may suggest is actually swapping turbine housings. For $265 I got a wastegated 14cm housing for my HX40 and all I can say is wow. It may actually give you a boost in performance compared to the 18

 

[n8in8or]

The QSV will only work with a twin scroll housing, so having a QSV butterfly when it's open is no different than the twin scroll housing. And the shaft doesn't really sit in the stream of flow for that reason. Also, the butterfly doesn't sit perpendicular to flow. The way it sits closed, is around a 45* angle towards the open volute, to promote airflow towards the open volute when closed. It really is a good design. As far as wastegates, something close to a open butterfly would work, similar to an exhaust brake in the downpipe type design. Another thing I may suggest is actually swapping turbine housings. For $265 I got a wastegated 14cm housing for my HX40 and all I can say is wow. It may actually give you a boost in performance compared to the 18

Interesting, the ones I saw looked like the shaft sat in the middle. Maybe there are a couple different brands now and there are differences in brands? What you describe does sound like a very nice design.

Yeah I've been wondering about my housing actually. It's a CKO and the only reason I think it's an 18cm housing is because it has an "18" cast inside the volute, but who knows, that doesn't really mean a thing. That could mean it was cast from mold #18. Or it could have been a random number chosen by the tool maker that had no idea what that number even was. I could try a real Holset housing with a known dimension and have more than I've ever had, that is true.

 

[6.5L]

Like I said, I know of a 14cm housing machined for a a 76x64 turbine. It's the one I used. However, it was bolt in straight for me because it comes with a 3" V-band outlet. So for me it bolted exactly in where my old one did to my 3" downpipe. And I can say, it's nowhere near a restriction.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Interesting, the ones I saw looked like the shaft sat in the middle. Maybe there are a couple different brands now and there are differences in brands? What you describe does sound like a very nice design.

Yeah I've been wondering about my housing actually. It's a CKO and the only reason I think it's an 18cm housing is because it has an "18" cast inside the volute, but who knows, that doesn't really mean a thing. That could mean it was cast from mold #18. Or it could have been a random number chosen by the tool maker that had no idea what that number even was. I could try a real Holset housing with a known dimension and have more than I've ever had, that is true.

That is a big turbine housing CKO as evidenced by the indents for the mounting fasteners, it would be interesting to compare a real Holset dimensions to the CKO. China is manufacturing or all turbocharger industries and in spite of stories of premature failures there is lack of evidence to back up those stories.

 

[WarWagon]

Didn't you have to relocate your coolant overflow and the AC accumulator to make the QSV fit?

It's more complicated with AC and the 1994+ Dexmud cooling system. I suggest you are remembering the 2nd known install on mine. I don't think @6.5L even has AC on his Wyoming rig let alone dual air.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/another-bd-quick-spool-valve-install-with-a-c.39716/

The BD unit I had was actually pretty compact of a package in stock location. I'd have to do some inner fender trimming if I were to mount one in the current location with my manifold setup.

In the context of a 1993 without air you have room. I digress: The gold can is pretty damn big likely designed for boost/backpressure levels that blow the heads clean off modern high power DI diesels. It's like shoving in a 4" section of 5" exhaust pipe in the area. 1993 cooling system aka change the radiator, ditch the coolant bottle, related hoses, CDR reroute, and custom AC lines. Yes, for our application it could be smaller. Regardless it's a quality piece of work that you can see, feel, and hear. One of the few things I did not return for warranty...

@n8in8or
What side of the turbine you throttling? The big diameter or small diameter? The BD QSV throttles the big diameter of the turbine as @6.5L and I installed it. So I suggest your 2nd picture is different by spooling off the large diameter. I would suggest sampling the engine oil at 500, 1000, and 1500 miles to make sure the exhaust restriction of a spool valve isn't ruining the engine oil. Non-coated 6.2 pistons I was using may have been a major factor in killing engine oil with the QSV. The 90 degree bend may keep a higher average restriction, but, in context of the two 90 degree ports GM left us on the passenger side the bar isn't that high to start with.

 

[n8in8or]

It's more complicated with AC and the 1994+ Dexmud cooling system. I suggest you are remembering the 2nd known install on mine. I don't think @6.5L even has AC on his Wyoming rig let alone dual air.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/another-bd-quick-spool-valve-install-with-a-c.39716/



In the context of a 1993 without air you have room. I digress: The gold can is pretty damn big likely designed for boost/backpressure levels that blow the heads clean off modern high power DI diesels. It's like shoving in a 4" section of 5" exhaust pipe in the area. 1993 cooling system aka change the radiator, ditch the coolant bottle, related hoses, CDR reroute, and custom AC lines. Yes, for our application it could be smaller. Regardless it's a quality piece of work that you can see, feel, and hear. One of the few things I did not return for warranty...

@n8in8or
What side of the turbine you throttling? The big diameter or small diameter? The BD QSV throttles the big diameter of the turbine as @6.5L and I installed it. So I suggest your 2nd picture is different by spooling off the large diameter. I would suggest sampling the engine oil at 500, 1000, and 1500 miles to make sure the exhaust restriction of a spool valve isn't ruining the engine oil. Non-coated 6.2 pistons I was using may have been a major factor in killing engine oil with the QSV. The 90 degree bend may keep a higher average restriction, but, in context of the two 90 degree ports GM left us on the passenger side the bar isn't that high to start with.

Ah yes, perhaps it is your install that did the coolant and AC relocation. Thank you for reminding me of that!

Oh that picture wasn't anything I put together, they're just pictures I found on the interwebs to illustrate the idea. I agree, throttling the big diameter is the one that makes sense to me and that's how I would configure it.

Good thoughts on the oil sampling to verify too much restriction or not. I honestly don't know if I'll go this direction yet or not, but it is certainly an intriguing concept. I keep playing with doing some kind of a more centrally located turbo setup in my mind and with all that new tubing that would have to be created it sure seems easy to incorporate this idea in there. Even if I don't, maybe someone else will do something with it (and report back the results!).