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6.5 dead in water, please help

T

TeXpress

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Location
north TX
The truck is a 1995 k2500, with a bit of a frankenmotor. 202k miles on... well, I'm not sure what. She got a wrecker's special motor at 199k, a 1993 that had supposedly been overhauled 5k miles before its death. The IP came from the 95 as did sending units...

So, I was on the throttle a bit (not hammer down, but we were scooting along) and lost all power. Huge cloud of white smoke from the tailpipe, responding to throttle position. No check engine light, no codes. Cranking it with hot glow plugs made it sputter along for a second or two. A few days later when I had time to mess with it, it was barely smoking when cranking, like it was starving for fuel.

Frow my understanding, it seems it either lost all compression in one instant (doesn't seem likely) or lost its advance (seems way more likely). Supposedly, it got a rebuilt ip at 198k or so. But it sat for maybe 3 years. Also, i'd had a intermittent dtc on stepper timing out of range, so I'm kinda thinking the steppers dead.

Any ideas or tests to run are much appreciated and thanks in advance!
 
Welcome to TTS!

The Injection Pump timing may have been out of range for the computer to control timing. Ever set the TDCO on it?

Check the engine oil and coolant levels. Sounds like a head gasket let go. These engines have TTY heads bolts that are a extreme risk to reuse and lots of us go with head studs and blue locktight or other ways of sealing the studs.

How many miles on the injectors?

The lift pump diagnosis here is useful and check for air/fuel leaks. Lift pump or OPS, Oil Pressure Switch, may have failed and you are sucking air instead of fuel. Or IP hose failed from age, loose clamp etc. Air in fuel and lift pump is the #1 thing to check on these. Even by the GM book.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...t-Pumps-amp-OPS-operation-and-troubleshooting

3 years of sitting would have me suggest you check the fuel filter for slime, black stuff etc. See my posts about bugs in diesel fuel. Bottom line is a plugged tank sock and the need for biocide, and FFM/tank clean out.
 
Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: ___1995___
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) _k2500________
- Automatic or Standard _automatic_________
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) _~202k________
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) __'93 turbo, oem mechanical wastegate_________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? __F code turbo____________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) _85ish *F_________
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) __#2 diesel_______
- What fuel additives are you using? __Lucas upper cylinder and injector cleaner_________
- Where are you located? __north tx___________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter _changed at 200k________
- Fuel filter _changed by engine's previous owner, 5k miles ago________
- CDR Valve? __never, afaik_______
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at __coolant flushed at engine install, 199k___________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __synthetic rotella t, 201k_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at __haha... no matched set. ones new, one ancient...___________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): __at engine install, 199k____________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? __no idea, they came with the motor and don't work that great._______ What type? ____no idea, sorry_________
- Injectors - last changed at __supposedly rebuilt bby engine's previous owner, 5k miles ago._____________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? __accelerating, maybe 65-70% throttle____________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ___a little sluggish on full power, but running well__________
- Has this problem ever happened before? _____negative__________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) _y___ And? __dtc12, no problems______


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? __no_______
1b] Does the engine crank over? __yes, slower than i would call "normal"______
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? __yes_______
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? _no_______
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ___no wts light______
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ___yes______ For how long? __6ish seconds_______
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? __barely any at all, but its white and smells like diesel #2______
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? _not sure_______

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ___yes, and i have an override switch._________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? __yes_______
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? __yes_________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? __no, none at all_______
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? __yes, always_________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) __on upper intake, ssdiesel_________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? __no extension_______
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. __ohm meter says good_______
3d] PMD Make: __oem, afaik_________
3e] PMD Age: __17yrs___________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ______
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? __no_____
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? _no______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? ___no_______
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? _frequently________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ___i wouldn't call it excessive, but she blows a little smoke :)_______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? ___no________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? __i think the original owner did, but i've not looked____________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? __4" ssdiesel kit, no trap, no muffler :O ______________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? ____oem mechanical__________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? __single__________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? __replaced at overhaul with oreillys..._______
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? __no__________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? __no______
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __no________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? __no_________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.
 
hey, thanks for all the replies, awesome forums! I've never found anything like this for 6.2/6.5's before.
alright warwagon, i've never done the tdco, i don't have a scanner for obd1... head/head gasket was my first thought, but i couldn't justify it because it seems so unlikely to lose both sides at the same time. oil is good, coolant is a hair low, (tiny leak on t-stat housing).
I've thought the injectors were dying once before when i was seeing faint white smoke at idle, but i advanced the pump a little bit and it went away. I believe the truck has its original IP as it seems happy with the scribe marks lined up and they look suspiciously similar. No air in fuel, for sure, and i'm running a new BWD ops, and i have an override switch just in case.
The only problems i've had with the truck are some electrical issues, probably due to bad ground somewheres... oil pressure gauge wiggles around like mad whenever the lift pump is running, and also responds to inputs from brakes, headlights, turn signals..... :mad: It also cranks over slower than i declare it should, but i've never had problems starting it like that. except for blowing white smoke on startup... a lot of that was before i moved the ip back where it goes.
 
sounds like you need a PMD but I'd go over all the grounds first especially the 3 at the back of the engine on the trans dipstick
 
The batteries jump at me. "no matched set. ones new, one ancient.."???

After sitting for a while, that may be the culprit.

You need 2 strong batteries preferably at the same age, otherwise, the old one will bring down the new one.

Take them out and bring it to AZ or OR or PB, to do a load test.
This may not be all the problem but certainly easier to eliminate.
 
Ok, I'm fairly confidant the grounds and batteries can be ruled out at this point, so its probably time for a pmd. I had it in my head to get one from bwd through oreilly's, anyone have experiences with those or a recommendation for somethin else?
Also, I have to admit the idea of a failed pmd kinda caught me off guard... is the ssdiesel cooler not good enough?
 
pmds can be pretty fickle some seem to last forever others not so much. brand doesn't seem to matter much either. best odds are the remote mounted in the bumper with lots of airflow
 
Check PMDcable for your PMD needs.

Of course there is always the situation where You can't or do not want to wait for shipping.

SSDiesel's heat sinks are some of the best out there. They are just made to be mounted in a not so appropriate spot. They can easily be mounted in the bumper or anywhere else out of the engine bay.

I've used that style of heat sink in that location with good longevity for years. til I tried the Flight Systems PMD's. I actually had good longevity with the original Standyne PMD's there.

I had extremely poor life out of any of the Flight Systems PMD's no matter where they were mounted. The new Flight Systems PMD's are supposed to be much better. Time will tell
 
Ok, I had an idea I wanted to bounce off you guys... anybody ever mounted a pmd inside the air filter box? Ny obvious problems with that?
 
TeXpress said:
Ok, I had an idea I wanted to bounce off you guys... anybody ever mounted a pmd inside the air filter box? Ny obvious problems with that?
Click to expand...

In TX, that is not a good location. Yes, it has air flow but what about when the engine is shut down.
Heat does not distinguish between an air box or anywhere else in the hood.
It will not say, "Oh, it is the airbox, may be we should not go in there".

Put it outside where the ambient temperature is stable.
It can be hot but it is stable.
DONOT WORRY ABOUT WATER!!! unless you use your truck as amphibious navy seal type personnel carrier.
 
Put the new pmd on yesterday, on the intake manifold until the extension harness comes in. Unfortunately, nothing changed, truck is still cranking with no fuel flow. (Actually it does pump some if I hammer down while its cranking but there is no pressure at all and barely any fuel)
Any way to make her run on a db2? Got a few of those around... i was debating between a rebuild ds4 or running a condition unknown db2 and an aftermarket tranny controller... any opinions there? I like the idea of running a more reliable pump but if my db2's need rebuilt I'm not saving myself anything.
 
Is there any fuel in your FFM?

I had a failure earlier this spring that had all the classic PMD failure symptoms. Replaced teh PMD, same thing. Got smart and checked the FFM. Bone dry. My lift pump had failed closed, not allowing any fuel through.

I installed a Walbro FRB-10 lift pump with a Wix FFM that I got from Leroy and PMD cable. Started right up after getting fuel to the IP and has been running like a champ since.
 
you might wanna check/change the ops(oil pressure sensor) if they go bad they will shut off the fuel to as a safe feature, i notice you have the lift pump override but i still herd of the ops giving problems and pretty cheap
 
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