6.5 Burb suburban diesel or Duraburb?

[great white]

I've read that you need a custom oil pan for the P 400 to fit over the front axle of a 4wd.

Correct.

 

[Detroit Dan]

Just have to chime in here. Well, rant about my personal opinion and experience would better describe it. My sister had a v10 04 Excursion 4x4 that I drove numerous times. First impression? Gorgeous vehicle. Eddie Bauer trim, leather 9 passenger interior was one of the nicest interiors I've seen. Second impression: climbing in and out is awkward, just like the Expeditions. Can't step over the running board, and if you use it you have to switch legs. I've always owned lifted trucks, so I should be the last one to complain about climbing in a truck, but like I said it is just awkward. Next impression: the V10 is a nutless, gutless, gas-wasting piece of s**t. Sounds lousy, feels lousy, will move what you hook to it for the most part. Towed almost the same camper my 6.5 struggles with (on hills only) with no problem. Since we're talking about 7.3s, all I can say is Ford bought a good motor there, figures once they got it working good they dumped it for the problematic 6.0.
I love solid axle, old technology trucks that ride like a truck. But this truck rode awful. Maybe it's because I'm so prejudiced against Fords, or maybe because with a $48,000 luxury truck you expect more. Absolutely horrible ride. I drove it across the Kancamagus Highway one time, was stiff and sore and aggravated by the time we got across. Leans and rocks side to side, as bad or worse than my work Expedition. I don't know why the Fords rock side to side so. My ancient Suburban with bad shocks and a broken swaybar endlink doesnt even do that. I cannot say enough negative about the ride of that truck. And it was new at the time. To confirm what someone else said, the resale of a gasser is really bad. She got I think $8500 for it with under 100k on it when she traded it.
Reliability? I guess it's nice to not worry about the 7.3 failing, but it's true the automatics are weak; I've towed a ton of them with blown up trannies. And frontends? Maybe the SFA is comparatively strong, but every one I ever saw ate through balljoints and tie rods way too fast. I've never done the balljoints on my 97, did tierods finally last year at over 175k. CV axles year before that when they got noisy. Not bad for a heavy duty plow truck. Only problem I really had was the 950lb plow ate wheelbearings every couple years. If you saw the things my truck has done, you would never say that IFS is weaker than SFA. I have beaten and destroyed Dana 44s, Dana 44HDs, and am now rebuilding a Dana 60 that has so far failed to impress me much. Just personal experience here, but my 97 3500 IFS has proved to be the strongest 4wd frontend I've ever owned. Maybe the 3500 IFS is better than the smaller IFS everyone seems to break?
I really have seen a lot of Super Duty Fords, and F150s too, needing balljoints and/or tierods at ridiculously low mileage. So how tough is the SFA really, if half the moving parts and wear items have to be changed every 2 years?
I don't really have much to say about the Duramax swap in a Suburban. Never seen one. I'd probably like it. I think a 6.5 with all the standard upgrades would be better: ie, more reliable and a lot cheaper. If a modded 6.5 is not enough motor for what you need to pull, you're probably not going to be using a Suburban anyway. That's why hotshots are all crewcab duallies anyway. And you can get them with a Duramax.

One last gripe and I'm done: why on earth does everyone love the Cummins swap? I see it a lot on the 73-87 boards. I fully understand you can get a lot of power out of them if you've got the money. But stock they are nothing to brag about, and either stock or modded they sound like crap. I would not take a nice comfortable smooth riding Chevy and make it sound like a piece of construction equipment. I absolutely hate the sound of a piped inline 6. Sounds pitiful. Certainly couldn't stand to listen to one groaning away all night plowing snow.

 

[Acesneights1]

One last gripe and I'm done: why on earth does everyone love the Cummins swap? I see it a lot on the 73-87 boards. I fully understand you can get a lot of power out of them if you've got the money. But stock they are nothing to brag about, and either stock or modded they sound like crap. I would not take a nice comfortable smooth riding Chevy and make it sound like a piece of construction equipment. I absolutely hate the sound of a piped inline 6. Sounds pitiful. Certainly couldn't stand to listen to one groaning away all night plowing snow.

Simple, It's an easy swap, requires no electronics and 12v's can be had cheap an easily and you can easily get nice HP from them with little work and aside from the KDP issue which can be fixed with a 30$ kit it's a pretty indestructable engine.

 

[tanman_2006]

I have been keeping my eye open to buy buy my dad another 99-03 7.3 He bought the first one from our dealer in 98 (early 99 model) and drove the crap out of it and it had nearly 300K on it when the tranny finally went in 03 when he traded for a 6.0 and it was down hill from there. He is still a ford man but now settles with a 5.4L but says he wishes he had a 7.3 everytime he hooks up to our swather or haytrailer (he even said he might take a 6.5, Ol' Blue was his back in the day).

What most people dont realize is the high press oil system needs the oil changed just like the regular oil system. This is one reason the Injectors go bad on 7.3's, worn out oil. Changing the inj's on a 7.3 is do able but there are alot more parts to remove to get to them. The trannys always felt soft to me but they can normally pull for quite awhile but just like the allison trans when you start putting out extra power they collapse.

 

[Caskey]

Here is the one i want and i dont like fords but i do like the 7.3s http://tulsa.craigslist.org/ctd/2221096556.html

 

[Crankme69]

I like the looks of em...:thumbsup:

But the more I read about the ride quality & handling...the more I think a nice 94 Burb like Leroy just found would be a better choice. Not to mention what the MPG differences are between em...??? I think some of these big rigs will be depreciating quickly if the diesel fuel ends up back at $5 a gal again, and right now it sure looks like that is where we are heading again

 

[Big T]

Correct.

And is there a source for them?

 

[Big T]

The drawbacks to the 4X4 EXCURSIONS is that FORD got the bright idea to install softer springs in the front end and lower it down from the SUPER DUTIES. Since they lowered it down they had to install lesser arch rear springs which meant they had to be very stiff to hold the extra rear weight of the X and strill be able to hold up tongue weight. A F-350 SRW truck has 385 LB rear springs where as an EXCURSION has 410 LB springs. Quite a few of the guys over at TDS have swapped out the EXCURSION springs for F-250 front and rear springs along with RANCH or BILSTEIN shocks, larger sway bars, and a set of 03+ bump stops in the front end(in 03 FORD went to a TIMBREN style bump stop in teh front end since the X sat so low it rode on the bump stops). If it has the 7.3L it will have the 4R100 trans in it which is pretty stout, but the torque converters in them are weak and the FORD valve body gives way to soft of a shift. And of course the 7.3L PS has injector problems if the oil isn't changed often, the wonderful high pressure oil crossover line that leaks or pops, and the stock high pressure oil pump can't keep up with much of a tune most of the time.

I almost bought an EXCURSION until I rode in one, after that my BURB got a DURAMAX.

I have a good friend who's a 7.3 PS fan. In addition to all the negatives posted here, he says there is either a camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor that is prone to going out. When it goes, the engine will not run. It's a $50 part and he always keeps one in his glove box. Sort of the 7.3 PS equivalent of the PMD for the 6.5 TD.

 

[buddy]

I have a good friend who's a 7.3 PS fan. In addition to all the negatives posted here, he says there is either a camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor that is prone to going out. When it goes, the engine will not run. It's a $50 part and he always keeps one in his glove box. Sort of the 7.3 PS equivalent of the PMD for the 6.5 TD.

I have ridden in a coworkers older Powerstorke and he has had the same sensor issue 3 times since he got the truck. His truck was pretty slow in comparison to my 6.5, and it had a real rough ride, especially on the interstates that have concrete separators every 20 feet or so. Might be a CA earthquake thing, and we have so much road and so many drivers out here the roads arent in great shape, so his truck sucked to ride in. And he only got like 15mpg, so not sure why he liked that truck.

Diesel Fuel is $3.80 a gallon here, 15 cents more than Premium gas.

 

[ak diesel driver]

And is there a source for them?

Have to make your own.

 

[Big T]

Have to make your own.

THAT is not in my repertoire!

 

[BoostN]

I don't really have much to say about the Duramax swap in a Suburban. Never seen one. I'd probably like it. I think a 6.5 with all the standard upgrades would be better: ie, more reliable and a lot cheaper. If a modded 6.5 is not enough motor for what you need to pull, you're probably not going to be using a Suburban anyway. That's why hotshots are all crewcab duallies anyway. And you can get them with a Duramax.

I think that's a matter of opinion, it's not uncommon to see 300K + Duramaxs out on the road with no major problems.

 

[GM Guy]

my experience with excursions lies in our school fleet back when I was in High school, and I hated them. the 2wd GMT400 burbs were going strong with 200K or better miles (350 vortec) and they rode smooth, and handled with confidence. the excursions weaved, swayed, and damn near made one car sick. 5.4L was a neutered chihuahua in a dogfighting ring. fuel economy was horrible, and getting in and out was strange. it just didnt fit. manuverability wasnt there, it almost always required a three point turn to park.

the 7.3L is a good engine, but the rest of the truck isnt. tough? yes. refined product quality you expect in a family truckster? heck no.

 

[Acesneights1]

I have a good friend who's a 7.3 PS fan. In addition to all the negatives posted here, he says there is either a camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor that is prone to going out. When it goes, the engine will not run. It's a $50 part and he always keeps one in his glove box. Sort of the 7.3 PS equivalent of the PMD for the 6.5 TD.

That is a recall item and ford will fix it for free. I had to change mine before the recall. It took 10 mins.

 

[Acesneights1]

I think that's a matter of opinion, it's not uncommon to see 300K + Duramaxs out on the road with no major problems.

I don't think he meant the engine itself ,but the reliablilty of the conversion. That is alot of electronics and wiring. Not for the faint of heart for sure.

 

[Big T]

That is a recall item and ford will fix it for free. I had to change mine before the recall. It took 10 mins.

How many times can you go to the well on the recall?

 

[Acesneights1]

Like I said before and I was the first to say it, They ride like an F-350. But they tow like one too. It's all a matter of what you want the truck for. A 7.3 will out tow a 6.5 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I have owned and towed with both. There is no comparision. when I moved from LI to CT I had my Skidsteer trailer on the back of my f-350 loaded with as much equipment as it would hold, the Transfer tank in the bed had 100 gals of diesel the rest of the bed was full the the roof with firewood and I had an 8ft Wester proplow hanging off the front and in 90 deg weather that truck did not even break a sweat and pulled the same as it did empty. The strokes stock are not know for SOP, but more for just brute strength. The only reason I didn't buy my fathers was I could not justify spending 16k(what my mother sold it for) for something that I basically use to tow my camper. I's not a commuter vehchile. If you want a grocery getter,family Truckster that rides nice and won't break the bank, buy a diesel burb. if you are going to tow heavy, push snow etc, buy an excursion with a stroke(7.3) It's a simple as that. My Dually rides 1000x times nicer than my Superduty did but my Superduty would out tow it effortlessly without any worry.

 

[HighSierra86]

We have always had this joke at home about the 7.3 being "the most powerful truck ever built" They seem to have a cult following (like jeeps) and the people who own them seem to think they are the greatest thing ever made. But kidding aside, they are a great engine, as mentioned above just keep up with oil changes and expect to shell out some cash if you need injectors. As for the Excursion...my opinion is stay away. We have family friends who have one with the 7.3 and they hate it. They are diehard ford guys but they cant stand the ride and handleing. In fact, after they rode in my 6.5 burb they were almost sold on the idea of buying one because it was so much more comftorable. But I think the bottom line is like kenny said, what are you using it for? The excursion is deff going to be better suited for heavy towing, while the suburban (6.5 or dmax) will have towing capabilities but with a much nicer ride. For me, I think I would rather just buy a complete and running factory powered dmax then to bother trying to retrofit one into an older chasis. I may one day do a swap just for the heck of it, but i really dont see it as being economical or justified at this point. Other than the fact that GM never made a dmax burban or tahoe of course.....

 

[ak diesel driver]

why not buy a crew cab dmax put a shell on it and do a little body work?

 

[Detroit Dan]

I think that's a matter of opinion, it's not uncommon to see 300K + Duramaxs out on the road with no major problems.

I meant reliable referring to the one-off nature of the swap, not the duramax itself. I can picture going down the road 8 hours from home with the family and a camper behind, and the truck shuts off with no warning. Now what? I wouldn't know where to start or what to check on a conversion. Nor would any shop I could find. That's stranded.