6.2... no compression #7

[ak diesel driver]

I thought the glow time seemed a bit short

 

[huntingman2706217]

Those are some impressive videos. Seriously worthy of the technical reference how too section.

There isn't anything wrong with that engine.

Blowby changes from cold to hot engines - check it both ways. All I can think of that would be different unless the CDR stuck closed or a hose to it was pinched. (Gold tuna can, CDR, Crankcase Depression Regulator, goes by hose to the oil fill.)

I would double check the crankshaft vibration damper from the background noise.

I assume a hot engine for the retard lever test? Possible you have a worn or sticking advance piston in the pump esp. after the timing retard test smokes so much afterwards. Injectors combine to amplify problems in the pump where worn injectors are worse. Light load going down a hill can bring on white smoke. Generally the amount of white smoke you have, I assume it smells like diesel, is an issue if the last video was on a hot engine. Otherwise you put the fire out (precups too cold to light the fuel) on a cold engine.

I do not know what engines had the EPR, exhaust pressure regulator on the driver's side. It makes a difference by warming up the intake with EGR cross flow - at least it did in our 1988 1/2t.

With working glow plugs I would suspect pissing/sticking injectors then look at the IP. Especially with the long crank time. Do you have 100 engine RPM minimum when cranking cold and 150 hot?

I was just trying to be as informative as possible for you guys helping... lol...

i checked the blow by when cold and hot... not on purpose but i was doing something else and ended up doing that and both times turned around the same results... nothing to note about anyways...

in the video it really doesnt have the best sound to show that it did in fact idle way down to the point of studdering like it was going to cut off... it was before i went down and around the block but it was sitting running at idle for about 10minutes... so it wasnt cold...

Last video was meant to be video 2... but uploaded wrong order... that was before i went around the block... i guess i need to run it around the block and double check the retard lever test...

im not sure if i have anything off the exhaust or not... ill double check that if im suppose to that its not removed...

I dont have a RPM gauge on the truck for whatever reason... needs to be something i adapt... so i have no idea what the engine speed is but i do have both new batteries and both have more CCA then the factory calls for... ive tested the Alternator while running at just under 14v... like 13.5 if i remember right... at idle...

The damper i do need to check as i know they fail... the one on my 6.5 on the stand is toast and he told me hes replaced it already on that motor... im sure mine is getting there at least... the Liquid dampers would resolve that issue but at a pretty penny...

Ill planning to order injectors and glow plugs now... wish i didnt have to buy the stupid removal tool... ive read the way people do it with breaking it off and all that but being the back cylinder on a AC truck thats frickin impossible... Wish i could find someone local i could use theirs and just give it back... after i put these bosch glow plugs in i should never have this problem again anyways...

Injectors i found a set rebuilt on ebay WITH new bosch nozzles and pop tested within 50 of each other... think they were like $340... didnt think that was to bad being thats $150 less then ONE injector for my old cummins... they had sets for like $250 but no info on how they were built...

I thought the glow time seemed a bit short

was it? im confused how having the switch or making it a push button would change anything... if the light goes out then the switch isnt doing anything anyway... then again i havent researched how its suppose to be wired up when everyone does it... its probably wrong... i didnt do it...

 

[WarWagon]

Ebay and injectors or Injection pumps is scary like a bowl of cherries. You just never know about the quality. Triple check what shop it is and read reviews.

Glow plugs were "quick heat" plugs that heated up fast. More or less using 6volt plugs and trying to use a controller to keep then from burning out, swelling up, or being blown in half from being on too long with the engine running. Worked till it failed and then $$$ including sometimes severe engine damage.

The Duraterms are a self limiting plug. This is new technology for our engines. They take longer to get hot than the 9G's the factory used and thus require a bypass for more time. I like them over the 60G's myself, but, I can't say why I burned off the 60G set I used down to the to the nubs/threads. The engine came out and lots of ether was used to get it to run one last time on 7 of 8 to get on the trailer.

Short glow time is a valid comment even for the factory system. As the controller ages the glow time becomes shorter. So even if it is still working the time cam be short. Quick and dirty: with an injector removed cycle the plugs and look in the hole. Is the glow plug glowing? Yeah, dull red isn't "glowing".

 

[huntingman2706217]

Ill check on that when i do the injectors and have them out anyways... ill be doing the glow plugs same time anyways so ill double check my module... i think i was under the impression the duraterms were made by bosch? which is what i looked up at one point... lets see if i have the links still...

injectors... however i just emailed them... just realizing at the bottom saying fine thread so may not have them in course...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280939102895?item=280939102895&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

these are the glow plugs i saved which do not mention duraterm so confused them as the same i guess... need to find a set of duraterms and compare...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231224659456?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[huntingman2706217]

these i also saved the link to because they werent china nozzles but Italy nozzles... i was thinking i read somewhere that the bosch nozzles were made in italy but i cant remember for sure... i was gonna look into that or ask them...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390558383631?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[WarWagon]

They make injector nozzles in both places or transitioned (I forget), you want the German ones. Again a local Stanadyne diesel shop can rebuild your injectors and threads in the body don't matter at that point.

Bosch Duraterm, yes.

I do recommend getting and using the spring clamps on the return lines despite claims the new hose doesn't need them. Mine and a rare couple others have had leaks and lines blow off without them.

 

[Will L.]

The best-Bosch fuel return line is available at Mercedes Benz dealerships really cheap- it is for their idi diesels like any 1980s 300d. Buy by the foot.

 

[ak diesel driver]

that link for the glows was the correct one. they don't say duraterm on them

 

[huntingman2706217]

They make injector nozzles in both places or transitioned (I forget), you want the German ones. Again a local Stanadyne diesel shop can rebuild your injectors and threads in the body don't matter at that point.

Bosch Duraterm, yes.

I do recommend getting and using the spring clamps on the return lines despite claims the new hose doesn't need them. Mine and a rare couple others have had leaks and lines blow off without them.

ill look around but not sure there is one... never know though i guess... and ill find me a set of the clamps while im at it...

The best-Bosch fuel return line is available at Mercedes Benz dealerships really cheap- it is for their idi diesels like any 1980s 300d. Buy by the foot.

mine look brand new wherever they came from... probly a parts store but still new and flexible... no cracks... probly reuse for now... easy to fix later if need be...

that link for the glows was the correct one. they don't say duraterm on them

coolness... ill order them tonight at least...


Thanks again yall

 

[huntingman2706217]

i read a forever long thread about using the Mercedes nozzles or marine nozzles and setting a specific pop rating... except it was so long and drawn out i never found the outcome of what is preferred... on the standyne site i found a dealer/rebuilder about a mile from my work... so gonna swing by next week and get a quote but would like to know what to tell them... no point in going back stock basic unless thats all i need...

what im thinking now is swapping all my 6.5 turbo stuff to this motor... then running the basic 6.5 in my crawler... my engine bay isnt big enough for the turbo i dont think... all the 6.5 stuff is already off and my mechanical fuel pump is already gone so it wouldnt take much to bolt everything up... course ARP studs and 6.5 head gaskets would be in the near future as well then...

 

[WarWagon]

This engine with the 6.2 heads and long 6.2 injectors wouldn't work with your 6.5 stuff. It wouldn't clear the injectors, the head injector threads do not allow 6.5 shorter injectors, and the AC box doesn't clear. You will need a banks manifold from Leroy diesel and that will solve most of the fitment issues.

The 6.5 turbo will cost you ~5 MPG all the time going from 20 MPG to 15 MPG. The Banks turbo is also small. Then the 6.2 precups start to be a restriction with bigger turbo's.

What is the plan for this truck? Show truck, work truck, hobby, toy? Towing what, what kind of grades, and does it matter when you get there? If towing forget about anything smaller than a HX40II due to MPG reasons alone.

Some turbo info for you.
http://maxxtorque.com/dieselcommuni...ods/244-the-65-factory-equipped-asthma-attack

 

[huntingman2706217]

yep mainly towing... flatbed c30 4x2... i have a 28ft gooseneck ill be hauling my crawler on and hopefully two crawlers on with some mods.. maybe 10k max trailer and two rigs... im in GA so grades arnt terrible... if i get into many its when i get up around TN on the interstate mainly... but its not like CO at all... just a couple long large hills... if i cant easily make that happen then ill just do what i can and ride with it till i can get me a newer crew cab... im probly still gonna have to sell off everything on the 6.5... im gonna try and refab some things but from the measurements i took ill be about 2in to far into the pass side shock hoop... i could build my own header on the pass side and set the turbo elsewhere but not sure if i wanna do all that... turbos near worthless offroad anyways... i dont spend a lot of time at a higher rpm... all grunt work... the cool factor will be lost though

 

[WarWagon]

Contact Leroy for a price on a manifold that would make that turbo work. Even flat that is a heavy trailer for a NA 6.2. It can do it, but, it may not be much fun being below the speed limit on any hill. Make sure the brake controller for the trailer doesn't apply the brakes with the emergency flashers you have to use when doing below 45MPH...

Low RPM grunt work IS the only place the GMx turbo's are worth the powder to blow them to He11. So off road is a a good choice. But towing anything to get there a GMx is a fuel sucking bad choice.

 

[huntingman2706217]

28ft didnt sound right when i typed it... i just picked it up to do some work on it so i couldnt remember for sure lol... also 5th wheels are measured differently the goosenecks for whatever reason... used to be a camper and they account for all space i guess... the lower flat part of the deck is 18ft and the top part is 6 foot... its 24 total... my fault... i knew it was a even number when i measured it a couple weeks ago but after i sent that i doubted myself lol... it probly wouldnt get much less MPG's then my 2008 4.8 yukon towing my old car trailer with it... lol...

Im also thinking of drawing up something that will actually attach to the back of my flat bed... a extension/dove tail basically... so i could drive the jeep up on the back... its only short by a couple feet so it wouldnt take much... this way if im staying in a hotel or not staying the night at all i wouldnt need the trailer... we will see though... thatll be after the trailers rebuilt to my specs...

 

[huntingman2706217]

got my duraterms in... except for the one thats swollen... course it didnt do any good as the rest were fine but at least i dont gotta worry about them burning up or anything anymore...

anyone got the tool to remove them and ill paypal $20 to borrow it and ill ship back when im dont? lol... these shouldnt swell up at least for a very long time... i dont want a $75 tool ill never use again lol...

 

[turbovanman]

KR services on Ebay are a solid company.

That thing does smoke, even my van on WMO doesn't smoke like that, lol.

This engine with the 6.2 heads and long 6.2 injectors wouldn't work with your 6.5 stuff. It wouldn't clear the injectors, the head injector threads do not allow 6.5 shorter injectors, and the AC box doesn't clear. You will need a banks manifold from Leroy diesel and that will solve most of the fitment issues.

The 6.5 turbo will cost you ~5 MPG all the time going from 20 MPG to 15 MPG. The Banks turbo is also small. Then the 6.2 precups start to be a restriction with bigger turbo's.

People have double stacked exhaust gaskets so the turbo will clear the injectors.

Why do you keep saying a turbo will cost MPG? NO WAY will he lose 5 mpg, he actually might pick up 5 mpg, not lose it.

 

[Will L.]

This thread got me to thinking more about what might be w/ mpg since adding my turbo. So running the comparison test best I can.

When driving non turbo I had 10.4 mpg. Always wot from stop until speed limit.
I added gm6 center mount turbo, swapped my injectors for turbo injectors that had within 10,000 miles of wear of my n/a injectors. turned up fuel screw 1 turn. homemade turbo master. 9 psi boost max, and on hiway at 78 mph 3000 rpm I have 3psi boost. I still have not increased the exhaust size. The only other change that is a variable is the intake manifold was a normal truck lower half and is now the van 3 piece set up. Definitely not as good a flowing manifold.

Again full throttle from every stop, truck is much quicker and will leave a puff of smoke at take off, so a little unburned fuel happening but not a tremendous amount. I used to be passed by EVERY CAR leaving stoplights. Now I am in front unless someone is pushing their ride. I "drag raced a buddy with a prius, he used to leave me way behind. Now I take him up to 40 mph. MPG driving like this? 10.4 mpg- exactly the same.

So for the last 2 tanks(on #3 now) I am on the throttle about 75%-80% from the stoplight. It's as close to the old acceleration rate as I can estimate. I still drive at the same top speeds as normal. I have (out of habit) went wot a couple of times a day almost every day, so still not perfect, but closer. So far tank #1 was 11.8 mpg, tank #2 was 11.9 mpg. That's not a lot of money, but a descent percentage gain.

Is there other people who added a turbo and showed a note-able drop in mpg? I can't image worse high rpm restriction being at 3,000, still on 3 psi boost. My weight is roughly 7,000 lbs currently, so getting those 37" 148# ea tires a rollin has to be worse than most.

 

[WarWagon]

KR services on Ebay are a solid company.

That thing does smoke, even my van on WMO doesn't smoke like that, lol.



People have double stacked exhaust gaskets so the turbo will clear the injectors.

Why do you keep saying a turbo will cost MPG? NO WAY will he lose 5 mpg, he actually might pick up 5 mpg, not lose it.

First off he has a 1982 that can only take 6.2 long body injectors for 1982 because they changed the threads from 1983 on and even the 6.5's use the 1983+ thread size. So it is impossible to get short body injectors to fit a later body style factory GM 6.5 manifold. He needs the Banks manifold that was designed to clear long body 6.2 injectors let alone fit the body by clearing the HVAC box, frame, etc. He'd have to swap heads to newer ones to use short 6.5 injectors and then valve train issues may arise from differences in 1982. That or somehow re-thread the injector holes $$$.

My 1993 formally had 6.2 heads without manifold gaskets to clear the 6.5 turbo setup and the 1995 with 6.2 heads had 2 gaskets. The 1993 now has NA 6.5 heads due to a missing 1/4 worm clamp being found later on top of a piston.

Looking at the 6.5 GM turbulent turbo manifold that goes 90 degrees to 2 exhaust ports and restrictive turbo is should be clear where you loose MPG. Running 6 PSI of boost with Zero throttle at 2500 RPM from exhaust airflow alone should explain where the wasted fuel MPG's are going. Either the waste gate is wide open or you are generating boost from airflow. So any exhaust from fuel being burned winds up mostly trying to go through the small waste gate - because you have already spun the turbo up to 6 PSI from COLD exhaust air! It doesn't take much fuel to hit 14PSI and then the WG had better be opening.

Center mount van and HUMMER's have different manifolds of course and YMMV. Regardless we are talking about a pickup configuration with a possible better Banks manifold. Same restrictive turbo size.

Most NA 6.2 pickups are known to get 20 MPG. The best I see from a 6.5 TD engine is ~14 MPG. In my personal experience (Aka same driving style) the lighter loaded 6.2 NA engine gets better MPG. (Sure can't get out of it's own way.) Adding the turbo cuts MPG and the GMx turbo's go downhill quick approaching gas engine 7 MPG economy when towing. Lighter loaded I mean Pickups and Suburbans not towing with automatics. Several others also note the MPG loss with NA vs GM turbo 6.2/6.5. Our 1988 NA 6.2 4x4 burb would get 18 MPG. Our 1995 touched 16 with an ATT and would not break 14 before that.

 

[Will L.]

I think a key part of that is where you said- cant get out of its own way.

I used to loose speed going up I95 hill from Vegas to Boulder City, now I can accelerate up it, I just pay for it with egt & ect.

Absolutely the turbo lets you shove more fuel through the pipes when you choose to. But if you do a 25 second 1/4 mile with a n/a engine or slow down to the same 25 second 1/4 mile with a turbo, the turbo produces more power easier, so getting the weight moving is better. The whole trick is driving the turbo as slow as a n/a. Idk- just my theory.
I can't do it very well, maybe a 2x4 under my throttle?

 

[huntingman2706217]

i can see what your saying though Will... I used to work at nissan and to me the 6cy and 4cy altimas got the same fuel mileage... on paper they didnt but in every day driving they did... in order to stay with normal speeds of everyone else the 4cy was stuggling to pull the car... the 6 did it much easier so it didnt take as much full throttle...

Im not real familiar with turbo setups... my cummins i never really did anything with their turbos... just removed the silencer and ran an adjustable flow elbow to one for the wastegate...

I can see both sides though... just no personal experience to input...