4x4 Chevy 6.5 turbo diesel van project.

[Twisted Steel Performance]

@Will L. I think after reading through this thread I will just watch and keep my opinion's to myself pertaining to the shims, KO heads, my findings with the various coatings, etc...

I am too much of a perfectionist with what I build so my thinking doesn't relate when folks cut corners to save a buck..

As for coating the cup, I have never said I coated ALL the cup, just certain places with certain products, and I'm not the only person that knows it works as designed, "hint" the entire cup doesn't touch the head when pressed into place...

Myself & someone else that builds & test's these motors would never use KO cups, heads, or shade tree "fix's" ...

Do y'all even think about how much combustion pressure there is here, and do ya have any idea what a thin shim will do under this much heat & pressure??

I'll just watch and see how it turns out...

 

[Will L.]

@sctrailrider - HAHA- I don't blame you. I feel like I voiced my best advice when I said as pc as possible by the fts comment. Basically shove the destroyed heads up the machinist's

I get needed to cut cost sometimes and cross your fingers. I have turned a v8 into a v7 more than once to get by. Then again, coating the parts isn't going to be cheap, so maybe cheaper to just get new heads.

 

[EWC]

Yes I'm aware of the cups and heads . That's why I asked about how deep .

 

[consaka]

@Will L. I think after reading through this thread I will just watch and keep my opinion's to myself pertaining to the shims, KO heads, my findings with the various coatings, etc...
As for coating the cup, I have never said I coated ALL the cup, just certain places with certain products, and I'm not the only person that knows it works as designed, "hint" the entire cup doesn't touch the head when pressed into place...
Do y'all even think about how much combustion pressure there is here, and do ya have any idea what a thin shim will do under this much heat & pressure??
I'll just watch and see how it turns out...

I think most people know that the cup only contacts the head on the side and bottom of the top outer lip. But then I thought most people knew surface temperatures of something heatsinked and cooled with water don't get much higher then the water temp. Depending on the rate of heat travel of course.
Considering how tight smashed flat that shim is yeah I know what it will do heat sinked to the head. It will be smashed flat. Taking on the minor machining imperfections and be locked into place. It isn't exposed to flame and shouldn't see much more then 300 degrees, if that.

 

[consaka]

@sctrailrider - HAHA- I don't blame you. I feel like I voiced my best advice when I said as pc as possible by the fts comment. Basically shove the destroyed heads up the machinist's

I get needed to cut cost sometimes and cross your fingers. I have turned a v8 into a v7 more than once to get by. Then again, coating the parts isn't going to be cheap, so maybe cheaper to just get new heads.

The thing with coatings is the time involved, prep mostly. I have 30k on a v7 out there. farm truck around town mostly. It needs pulled (collapsed piston skirt I think)and if I find it is a 599 block I will probably bare minimum rebuild a 6.2 I have laying around here for it.
As for the heads yall are having such a stroke over. I have my local (different) machinist going to shave a few off the bottom tomorrow morning. I'll just redo those coatings. It is only time. While I don't believe for a second that there would be any problem with shims, I can't wait 3 weeks for them.

 

[deejaaa]

no one is having a stroke. it just seems like a simple question has been so far over-thought that there is nothing else to say that hasn't been mentioned enough already. if it's just time, great. my machinist charges money also.

 

[consaka]

no one is having a stroke. it just seems like a simple question has been so far over-thought that there is nothing else to say that hasn't been mentioned enough already. if it's just time, great. my machinist charges money also.

I traded both my kids to the machinist so that isn't a problem. lol Thanks for reminding me I need to pay him again. Glad I haven't kept track of the costs. Probably be about 13k by now.
If you start doing coatings you will know what I mean by time. First cleaning, masking, sandblasting, then spraying, then cooking. A little thermal barrier here, a little dry lube there. etc. takes forever. Great experiment though and now I have a few other people wanting stuff coated for their own experiments. Fun times.

 

[consaka]

Got my heads back. Thinking of finishing them up with some gold plating. I'll be spending more time modifying some precups now that 8 thou turned them a little proud. I'll not be explaining the hows and whys as I feel it just promotes superiority complexes and attitude. I'll post updates with less of the drama as time allows.

 

[deejaaa]

it goes both ways but i know what you mean.

 

[EWC]

Yes , odd post from someone asking for help .

 

[consaka]

Yes , odd post from someone asking for help .

What was the question? Do you remember? All I got was a bunch of opinions with thinly veiled bashing and contempt from people I had respected. None of my questions was ever answered.
I am almost 50 and have been fixing engines of one form or another since I was 10 and my father first taught me the science behind how they work(teacher). By no means does this mean I know everything. I have a lousy memory. I am no shade tree mechanic, though I do like experimenting. I gave up the day to day grind long ago. Now, on the side, I only work on other peoples stuff if it is odd, challenging and every other shop gave up on it.
My unanswered questions were:
1. Did anyone know a source for shims?
2. Were CKO heads any good. I asked this because they claim to be better designed and made out of better material.
3. Another I may have forgotten.
I asked these questions because everyone has different knowledge based on experiences. I asked in case anyone had the knowledge or experience. I never asked about cko precups or whether anyone thought shims would work. Because I already know that information based on past experience with big diesel engines and physics in general.

I am sorry if anyone felt I was ungrateful for the unsolicited opinions based on speculation. But if that is the case then this may not be a thread those folks want to follow.

Hope you all have a great weekend. Cheers!

 

[Will L.]

Never meant to hurt feelings or intended to bash you. Just wanted to share concearns about possible issues in an attempt to help.

I left alone the cko head question becasue I dont have experience with them and didn't want to sway based on opinion.
The shims under precups are similar to other components I have messed with in the past and from that experience I felt I should voice concearn.


Shim stock supply I forgot to mention, got caught up in possible issues. Fastenal, Grainger, online metals, and msc direct are the 4 places I order from. Grainger is usually most expensive, but quick. Msc direct is always fastest- they next day almost everything they sale.

None of them will have exotics like inconel or titanium which is what Cat and Mercedes used in their chamber shims on mid cylinder 2 strokers. If you have anyone that can order it for you through someone like boeing or McDonald Douglas, Timet is of course the best chance for the titanium since they dont sell direct.

 

[ak diesel driver]

You do realize that none of us know you, your mechanical ability, your age/experience. So maybe take a chill pill. People are just trying to be helpful and give advice unsolicited or not.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I've been thinking about this shim. Iirc @sctrailrider -did his precups with a thermal barrier to separate the heat of the precup from going into the head (Is that correct?)
It really seemed counterintuitive to me- but I am still mulling it over, and have shifted from 100% against to nuetral. The precup is inconel not just so it can withstand the heat, but maintain it on purpose. .

I'm by no means the expert on this subject but I see it as "isolating the heat transfer into the head reduces the stress at points prone too cracking the other plus is retaining higher heat inside the cup."

 

[consaka]

Shim stock supply I forgot to mention, got caught up in possible issues. Fastenal, Grainger, online metals, and msc direct are the 4 places I order from. Grainger is usually most expensive, but quick. Msc direct is always fastest- they next day almost everything they sale.

None of them will have exotics like inconel or titanium which is what Cat and Mercedes used in their chamber shims on mid cylinder 2 strokers. If you have anyone that can order it for you through someone like boeing or McDonald Douglas, Timet is of course the best chance for the titanium since they dont sell direct.

Appreciate it and just an fyi I was not pointing at you directly. You have already helped me out in very real ways beyond advice.

 

[consaka]

You do realize that none of us know you, your mechanical ability, your age/experience. So maybe take a chill pill. People are just trying to be helpful and give advice unsolicited or not.

Aye. That's what they told me the profile was for. Consider yourself updated. Now that this thread has been totally thrashed and pointless I need to delete 90% of it or start over. Just saying this off topic stuff is polluting. My rants included.

 

[consaka]

I'm by no means the expert on this subject but I see it as "isolating the heat transfer into the head reduces the stress at points prone too cracking the other plus is retaining higher heat inside the cup."

I agree. The fact that the precup skirts hang down so far and are not heatsinked directly. Combined with the apparent slow transmission of heat from the inconel. The only part that still bothers me is that they let combustion gasses go around the skirt where those gasses will heatsink to the block. So the heat lost is actually occurring at the block behind the precup. The airgap acts like an insulator to the precup to a degree. Considering the really small area at the surface of the cup and head that is actually the heatsink for the cup, the precup acts somewhat like a glowplug.

Inconel is pretty cool stuff. Try this. Hold the skirt in one hand and apply friction heat to the face of it. Get it hot really fast and see how long it takes to travel to your fingers. Try that with copper and aluminum or even steel and you have to be really careful not to burn yourself over those same distances.

For my "playing around" I used an old precup and a stationary mount belt sander with a wore out belt that was originally probably 80 or 120 grit. push hard enough to almost stall the sander and the surface will be way too hot to touch but it will take some seconds for that heat to travel down the skirt. I should do that again and actually measure the surface temp. Unfortunately I have real work to do today. Take it easy on that tranny today FT.

 

[consaka]

Some pics of my current engine. Note the dual EGT probes and the "nest" of water lines and sensors in the intake. I like to know whats going on in my engines. Note the size of the turbo and no wastegate. No room for one. Also note the aluminum foil wrapped in aluminum tape. Yes the heat does burn off the sticky on the tape but it just turns hard and makes a nice shell. Pretty stinky till it is done but it does a great job without the worry about corrosion due to holding moisture near the exhaust. I do wrap it pretty tight but when it heats up it expands and then shrinks on cooling leaving an airgap. Most times I can touch that exhaust while it is running. Some won't like it but I swear by it. If I could do the same to the manifold I would.

Note. my jerryrigged TPS I can't be bothered to buy and use a product I sell online. lol

 

[consaka]

I have the new engine on the engine stand running. Not a test stand and definitly not heavy duty enough. I pieced together scraps of other engines so I could run it. Just have to get the timing worked out. Seems to idle fine at just about any timing which is kinda weird. My db4 marine based engine build wouldn't even start till the timing got majorly advanced.
Special notes to anyone that does aftermarket Harland Sharp rockers with 6:1 ratio. You will need to file the first and last guides in the head on old heads.
In test fitting I was sure they were clearing but then chasing an odd noise I pulled one and saw it was rubbing. I then pulled all the rest and noticed all the end push rods were rubbing except 1. not too cool having to file that with the head on the engine and then get the shavings out with a magnet. Going slow with a rat tail file took a few hours but did the trick. No more rubbing and none were permanently bent. Now just need to build a stand for the radiator or build a proper engine test stand.

 

[n8in8or]

Some pics of my current engine. Note the dual EGT probes and the "nest" of water lines and sensors in the intake. I like to know whats going on in my engines. Note the size of the turbo and no wastegate. No room for one. Also note the aluminum foil wrapped in aluminum tape. Yes the heat does burn off the sticky on the tape but it just turns hard and makes a nice shell. Pretty stinky till it is done but it does a great job without the worry about corrosion due to holding moisture near the exhaust. I do wrap it pretty tight but when it heats up it expands and then shrinks on cooling leaving an airgap. Most times I can touch that exhaust while it is running. Some won't like it but I swear by it. If I could do the same to the manifold I would.
View attachment 50074
Note. my jerryrigged TPS I can't be bothered to buy and use a product I sell online. lol
View attachment 50075
View attachment 50076
View attachment 50077
View attachment 50078

Nice tip on the foil and aluminum tape. I dig the multiple water injection nozzles. What brand are you using? What pressure pump are you using?