15K lbs toy hauler

[Ed HD]

No, the trailer brakes are definitely not enough to manage all that weight. I don't know the bias, but I'd guess more than 40% of the trailer's weight goes to the truck's brakes.

I think 2011 was the first year of OEM GM exhaust brake. 04.5+ (IIRC) have the VGT turbo, which can help with exhaust braking.

 

[dangerousdave]

Is the trailer in question the one in your avatar?
I've pulled 10K all over Cali. and Baja, with the loaded Suburban in my sig.
The Devil is in the details, though. As mentioned, aerodynamics are key, so making a pointy "nose" for the front will make a big difference; I've used 3/8 plywood with success, if you want to put in a door it serves as light weight storage too. You don't want a down point that will add downforce, but a splitter. My last heavy pull was from San Rafael to San Diego, no worries. My favorite bad road is the "Devil's backbone" on the way down Baja towards Cabo, especially exciting if there's a line of 18 wheelers in front.

As others have said, it can be done but should it.

Many of our forum are 'flatlanders' and don't know that California is mostly hills and mountains with a couple of valleys.

 

[Cali6.5]

Thanks Dave. The trailer in the avatar is what got me int his forum. I realized when I bought that trailer that I was going to kill the truck when pulled it over the Cueast grade in SLO and the truck overheated. That trailer is about 9500 lbs empty. Now I bought a 43' cyclone toy hauler (13' tall). It doea appear to have some angles on the front though, mostly to get a sharper turn radius (88 degrees as advertised) but it does provide some angles on the front that are better than just flat, how much better I am not sure.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

From what I can find on that toy hauler, it is one BIG trailer. The 15K pounds is DRY weight, and is rated for 18K GVWR with 3300 on the hitch pin(the 3300 is also empty dry weight). That trailer loaded down with water, gear, whatever you put in and so on could EASILY add well over 18K pounds of weight to the trucks weight. Not to mention the height of it and wind drag. Quite honestly you have left what a 6.5 should even think of doing. The engine, trans, or even the truck for that matter was ever even imagined to haul that kind of weight. A dually was only rated to tow around 13,000 pounds IIRC of open trailer type weight, and you're going another 5,000 pounds more with a high drag type trailer. You can try it, but personally I think you're putting yourself and those around you in danger by trying to do it as that is ALOT of trailer to be moving. Just think of this, what will you do if your trailer plug comes unplugged and you need to stop even on flat level ground, do you think your brakes are up to it?

 

[JayTheCPA]

Here is experience from a guy whom I'd say has his act together:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?34120-setup-for-26-000gcvw-on-a-6-5

Short version is that the 15 - 20K# range does not play well with the 6.5 and there are pretty pictures to show it.

Me personally, I like the idea of keeping the vehicle and trailer weight ratios closer to 1:1 as a limiting factor for the reasons that Ferm mentions.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Here is experience from a guy whom I'd say has his act together:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?34120-setup-for-26-000gcvw-on-a-6-5

Short version is that the 15 - 20K# range does not play well with the 6.5 and there are pretty pictures to show it.

Me personally, I like the idea of keeping the vehicle and trailer weight ratios closer to 1:1 as a limiting factor for the reasons that Ferm mentions.

And he was using a 3500HD which is a lot heavier built truck than even a 1st generation DURAMAX truck.

 

[WarWagon]

Forgot to mention it in my last post but if your shearing off lug nuts on a dually, even just slightly overloaded, then someone didn't tighten up the wheels properly. I work around lots of shops that deal with trucks and honestly, in 20+ years, I've only seen it happen due to neglect or human error.

There are threads of people pulling 15-20K with their 6.2's, I think mostly on the other site though.

The fellow owned a tire shop and was anal about proper lugnut torque so in this case I say that wasn't the issue. Concrete roads out there have lots of shock loading from the expansion joints. Maybe it was metal fatigue and after the 10th or whatever load overloaded and it finally caught up with him.

Just because other people do it and get away with it doesn't make it "safe". It's not something I would intentionally do because it already cost me parts and time fixing things.

 

[great white]

For your consideration, this is from the dealers ordering guide from 1998:

You are way over any of those specs with even a 15K dry trailer. Your truck weighs around 6500-7000.

So your GCWR will be in the 21-22,000 range. And that's before you add yourself, the wife, kids, truck fuel, toys, food, water, generators, clothing, blankets, tools, dogs, etc.....

That's modern 3500 diesel or medium duty truck territory. Definitely not a 1993 200,000+ 6.5 diesel truck.

 

[turbovanman]

From what I can find on that toy hauler, it is one BIG trailer. The 15K pounds is DRY weight, and is rated for 18K GVWR with 3300 on the hitch pin(the 3300 is also empty dry weight). That trailer loaded down with water, gear, whatever you put in and so on could EASILY add well over 18K pounds of weight to the trucks weight. Not to mention the height of it and wind drag. Quite honestly you have left what a 6.5 should even think of doing. The engine, trans, or even the truck for that matter was ever even imagined to haul that kind of weight. A dually was only rated to tow around 13,000 pounds IIRC of open trailer type weight, and you're going another 5,000 pounds more with a high drag type trailer. You can try it, but personally I think you're putting yourself and those around you in danger by trying to do it as that is ALOT of trailer to be moving. Just think of this, what will you do if your trailer plug comes unplugged and you need to stop even on flat level ground, do you think your brakes are up to it?

Wow, that is a ton of weight, holy crap.

The fellow owned a tire shop and was anal about proper lugnut torque so in this case I say that wasn't the issue. Concrete roads out there have lots of shock loading from the expansion joints. Maybe it was metal fatigue and after the 10th or whatever load overloaded and it finally caught up with him.

Just because other people do it and get away with it doesn't make it "safe". It's not something I would intentionally do because it already cost me parts and time fixing things.

Maybe so but doesn't add up. Cube van's, Snap Van's etc have more weight over the back axle and don't break. I had a old Snap on Truck here for service and sure enough, previous mechanic hadn't tightened up the wheels properly, studs were damaged and wheels were done.

Agreed, just because it can be done isn't an excuse.

 

[turbovanman]

For your consideration, this is from the dealers ordering guide from 1998:

You are way over any of those specs with even a 15K dry trailer. Your truck weighs around 6500-7000.

So your GCWR will be in the 21-22,000 range. And that's before you add yourself, the wife, kids, truck fuel, toys, food, water, generators, clothing, blankets, tools, dogs, etc.....

That's modern 3500 diesel or medium duty truck territory. Definitely not a 1993 200,000+ 6.5 diesel truck.

That's pretty cool, 3.08 gears can tow 11,000 lbs. :thumbsup:

Damn, they rate the 454 at a higher tow load?

 

[turbovanman]

Here is experience from a guy whom I'd say has his act together:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?34120-setup-for-26-000gcvw-on-a-6-5

Short version is that the 15 - 20K# range does not play well with the 6.5 and there are pretty pictures to show it.

Me personally, I like the idea of keeping the vehicle and trailer weight ratios closer to 1:1 as a limiting factor for the reasons that Ferm mentions.

Funny thread, haven't read it all but most of the guys in THIS thread are saying go ahead with 26,000 lbs, :hihi:

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

That's pretty cool, 3.08 gears can tow 11,000 lbs. :thumbsup:

Damn, they rate the 454 at a higher tow load?

Those aren't the amount of weight it can tow, it is the gross COMIBINED vehicle weight rating, or truck AND trailer COMBINED weights. So that puts his dually at 14,500 which is the weight of just his trailer. Add in another 7000 for the truck(or more), and he is WAY outside the ratings for it. He is even outside the highest weight rating for that truck period as the 3500HD is rated to 19,000 GCVWR, and he will be well in excess of that empty weight. And the 3500HD has a MUCh heavier frame, factory 4 wheel disc brakes, and an I-beam front axle. Like has been stated, he could probably pull it off, but his truck sure won't be happy doing it.

 

[WarWagon]

Funny thread, haven't read it all but most of the guys in THIS thread are saying go ahead with 26,000 lbs, :hihi:

Rating was given by the post above. And look at when he wound up doing to the 6.5, Duramax replacement/rebuild x2, transmission... Course I am bad example myself even somewhat near the ratings.

 

[great white]

That's pretty cool, 3.08 gears can tow 11,000 lbs. :thumbsup:

Damn, they rate the 454 at a higher tow load?

See Ferm's post.....bang on as usual.

 

[turbovanman]

Those aren't the amount of weight it can tow, it is the gross COMIBINED vehicle weight rating, or truck AND trailer COMBINED weights. So that puts his dually at 14,500 which is the weight of just his trailer. Add in another 7000 for the truck(or more), and he is WAY outside the ratings for it. He is even outside the highest weight rating for that truck period as the 3500HD is rated to 19,000 GCVWR, and he will be well in excess of that empty weight. And the 3500HD has a MUCh heavier frame, factory 4 wheel disc brakes, and an I-beam front axle. Like has been stated, he could probably pull it off, but his truck sure won't be happy doing it.

Wasn't talking abou this truck with the 3.08's.

Rating was given by the post above. And look at when he wound up doing to the 6.5, Duramax replacement/rebuild x2, transmission... Course I am bad example myself even somewhat near the ratings.

Still haven't read it thru and yeah, I am guilty of pushing things and blowing shit up, sometimes, its fun though. :skep: :rof:

See Ferm's post.....bang on as usual.

See above, :hihi:

 

[great white]

Wasn't talking abou this truck with the 3.08's.



Still haven't read it thru and yeah, I am guilty of pushing things and blowing shit up, sometimes, its fun though. :skep: :rof:



See above, :hihi:

Well, you did say it could tow 11,000 which isn't correct. Regardless of which truck we are talking about. 11,000 is the GCWR, not the tow rating.

So Ferm is still right on the money....

 

[turbovanman]

Well, you did say it could tow 11,000 which isn't correct. Regardless of which truck we are talking about. 11,000 is the GCWR, not the tow rating.

So Ferm is still right on the money....

Fine,

 

[94DieselSub]

Cali6.5,
I would highly advise against pulling a 15KLbs empty 13ft x 43Ft Toy-Hauler with anything that sold with a 6.2/6.5 diesel in it! That mansion on wheels is so far beyond the spec for these vehicles it's not even funny. And if you do throw caution to the wind with this idea, at least make sure you family/friends are not involved!

I've spun-out doing 58mph in Wy on black Ice towing a fully loaded 32Ft Toy-H with a 2011 6.4 F250. Went from the slow lane east bound, crossed over the #1 lane & the 50ft deep-V dirt median sideways, and stopped on the other side of the Hyw. Then the double tanker Flying-J Semi (full of 30K gallons of Diesel fuel) decided he didn't want to slow down, drove into to snow covered dirt median doing >55mph. His rear 10K-gallon pup tank Trailer didn't follow him, it jack-knifed right into the end of our Toy Hauler, which violently swung our trailer/truck around 180 degrees, slamming my head into the side window. So at that point the Trailer now looked like the rear 12Ft of it had an Iraqi IED exploded under it and the F250 had suffered some bumper/fender/rear-frame damage but was still drivable. Then comes the out of control (handicap) Van which T-boned our truck right behind the rear door doing >45mph, this shears off the Weight-Distro hitch in half and totals our truck. Luckily for me, I and my co-worker we already outside & away from the truck when the Van T-boned us. Totally glazed over Hwy, 15mph winds, and an ambient temp somewhere between 0-12F, standing on the side of the desolate Wy hwy giving my statement to the Troop for 45-minutes, watching my fingers change from shades of purple to blues, was soooo fun! But hell, it was rather amazing we were even alive at that point!

Now, I've stacked a few cars in my days racing on the streets, and have spun my Vet on the roadrace track doing >80 mph, but having an out of control fishtailing long trailer rig doing lock-to-lock corrections for over 1/4 mile through a huge deep-V median, definitely ranks up in my top 5 scariest moments of my life!

Moral to the story: Heavy things once in (out of control) motion, tend to stay that way for surprising distances! That's unless you experience a sudden stop via a more substantial object, at which point your odd's of survival go from bad to dismal!


Just my 2-Cents!
Chris

 

[GM Guy]

94 diesel sub, when was this incedent? wasnt march 2013 was it? I got to drive on black ice from rawlins to past cheyenne roughly that time. not fun at all.

if care is taken, you can exceed the OEM GCWR by quite a bit. I am routinely at 18,000. granted its a flatbed load, but until I figured out my fuel heater was shorting out and blowing the fuse my wastegate control is on, a few times that was naturally aspirated, most recently through boise, ID @ 18,600 lbs. not fun, but it did it and it lived to tell the tale.

turbinedoc is also pretty heavy (I think 15-20K) when he hauls his backhoe around, and that is with a half ton!

now if a guy thinks he can pull donner summit with the cruise set on 70, obviously there will be a connecting rod embedded in the pavement, but if a guy is willing to grind it out with the fleet trucks, it can do it.

 

[1999gmc]

I am not saying to pull 15K lb trailer with our trucks or any other 3/4 or 1 ton pickup. But, I regularly tow our toy hauler and GCW is 16K-17K and my truck pulls it fine and stops it fine. And its funny when people tell me about their new Fords, I know that guy hit black ice and slid all over, but my Uncle is a Ford guy and bought a King Ranch with the 6.4L and everytime I see him he's telling me how they couldn't make it to the campground without going to Ford because the truck went into re-gen and he couldn't pull any hills faster than 35mph. He said a few he wasn't sure if they were going to make it to the top going up I5 to Oregon.

Most of my pulls are up I80 in the Sierra Nevada's and my truck does fine. So, with a few mods, don't be afraid to tow a 9K or 10K toy hauler. And before any one says I am going by the GVW sticker on my toy hauler, I am not. I weighed my truck and trailer at a truckstop after a trip. Food was mostly gone, drinks, gas for the quads, and it was just over 16K. So I know loaded I'm 16K-17K lbs. and like I said, my truck does pretty well.