What’s the scoop with Heath Diesel?

[Rockabillyrat]

So it sounds to me like your putting bigger plungers in and then using a 5068 cam ring. I tried to get Slim to sell me his bigger plunger head but he said he would only sell it as a complete pump. I was OK with that and he said he was having a pump builder put it together. According to Slim the builder couldn't get it to work right. All second hand info so I don't know maybe he changed his mind and didn't want to sell it

Nope. Stock .310 plungers. The cam ring is different but not from a 5068

 

[Husker6.5]

"My pump puts out so much, I just hydrolocked my stock compression 6.5!"

Huge fueling brings up so many other things that must be changed/modified on these motors to efficiently digest that much diesel in an IDI Light Duty diesel. Even the P400 still carries a few basic design shortcomings that still prevent prodigious amounts of power being made by that stouter platform.

But, I'm not going to regurgitate the dozens of threads already on here covering those separate issues.

 

[Rockabillyrat]

Well like anything performance related it takes alot of trial and error to get it right. The great thing about the DS4 is the pulse width could be dialed back to keep the lower RPM and light load fueling down. Then when you really needed it you could have 500hp of fuel on tap.

Well guys are pushing well enough fuel for 500hp on the 4 plunger DB2 pumps. Justin put down 470hp to the wheels. Its possible with the right modifications. If someone is willing to spend and risk the money to build a monster DS4 it would be cool to see.

 

[EWC]

I'd have to look but my heads picked up 40 and 30 cfm from porting . It's not just the heads or the cam but the whole package . I got tired of the same old BS about adding more boost to overcome the low flow numbers . Found the Crane regrind and got it . Nobody had anything anywhere . And you can't just run the stock intake . Got numbers on the dual plane and the single . Still when the head is flowing 240 and the intake manifold is almost up to 200 , that isn't going to work . So everything needs to be looked at .

 

[FellowTraveler]

"My pump puts out so much, I just hydrolocked my stock compression 6.5!"

Huge fueling brings up so many other things that must be changed/modified on these motors to efficiently digest that much diesel in an IDI Light Duty diesel. Even the P400 still carries a few basic design shortcomings that still prevent prodigious amounts of power being made by that stouter platform.

But, I'm not going to regurgitate the dozens of threads already on here covering those separate issues.

Banks went to the limit of reliability on the military 6.5 HMMWV, I suspect an 18:1 compression ratio would help...........

 

[FellowTraveler]

I'd have to look but my heads picked up 40 and 30 cfm from porting . It's not just the heads or the cam but the whole package . I got tired of the same old BS about adding more boost to overcome the low flow numbers . Found the Crane regrind and got it . Nobody had anything anywhere . And you can't just run the stock intake . Got numbers on the dual plane and the single . Still when the head is flowing 240 and the intake manifold is almost up to 200 , that isn't going to work . So everything needs to be looked at .

Whats your take on compound low boost big air?

 

[Husker6.5]

@FellowTraveler. Yup, lower compression, larger precups, higher CFM/boost pressures (turbo), better flowing intake tract, better flowing exhaust tract, stronger bottom end, better head retention, better cooling - damn that's a big box of dominoes that starts falling once you start adding more fuel!

 

[Will L.]

Sure it is, but that other stuff adds longevity and efficiency for the time when your foot isn’t denting the floor board.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Doc, what do you think of the tuning equip? Maybe I should look down that route given the time I expect to own this pickup.

EWC, I have just installed the HT4 and a Hurricane7. Haven’t even fired it up yet. I basically now have the full buffet from Heath. If it’s going to work, it should work in my setup. I will report my experience.

I was MIA for Independence Day break and 1st day back at work after long holiday tends to get a little busy at work my apologies for late reply.

I bought my tuner around 2012 Lyndon's tuner is spendy but it came with some tech support other options did not come with.

I loaned mine to Dennis aka SlimShady (ATT Turbo Co.) so he could refine a tune for the OBD-II ATT/6.5 combination with auto trans. after playing with it he decided he could do the same thing with a Tuner Cat setup for less $$$, and returned my Westers kit.

I've played with the Wester's tuner just enough to be dangerous with it and decided to quit while ahead, and save getting smart with it for when I had time to play with it in earnest.

I'm close to having that dedicated time to play with this, I spent from 2010 until 2014 working on medium and large 3200 psi steam 150 Mw to 1500 Mw class and frame class HD gas turbines 285 Mw class power gen units across the South working 6-8 months a year 7-12s, I had a company lease car then so the truck stayed mostly parked I I dropped out of 6.5 land for the most part during that time.

I have been back in shipboard aero-derivative gas turbines since 2014 working on the (little ones) "only" 25-40 Kshp so a little more time to play. I've also been doing more volunteer disaster relief ministry work so have needed the truck vs. playing with it.

I bought the dually Dodge crew cab last Feb. for that now, so I can legally haul our big equipment trailer; plus have room for DR team members to ride with me.

Good Lord willing, & if creeks don't rise awful bad, I'll retire Nov. 2021 more time to play with tuners and do DR Ministry work.

Dennis has about shut down ATT business getting tough to get parts for the builds imported and not enough volume of business to keep the production casting line flowing for basically an obsolete engine design flowing, we are slowly working on improved tunes to go with the ATT which IMO is significant improvement over GM-X turbos and less stress on high time engines.

ATT has plenty of grunt for towing, and what I've built my rig for. Bolt one on to any reasonably healthy 6.5 and enjoy the benefits of better turbo even with the anemic GM factory tuning, I don't even have gauges on my ATT'd Burb I just monitor as needed with my old MT2500 "Brick" scan tool.

 

[WarWagon]

@Turbine Doc it's been a helluva a ride. Not unexpected ATT news but sad.

 

[Turbine Doc]

@Turbine Doc it's been a helluva a ride. Not unexpected ATT news but sad.

Sad part is someone at Heath products was part of the demise, I sent them the TDO7-22 I started with upon Dennis recommendations, TD07 was the Genesis of the ATT, they sat on it for a year supposedly tested it and it didn't work for them, found out via someone that was there saw that it was never removed from the box I shipped it in don't know who to believe.

Just sad with proper tuning it would have been the every day turbo most 6.5ers needed, and not breaking the bank for, with performance capability with some more tweaks.

 

[Turbine Doc]

@FellowTraveler. Yup, lower compression, larger precups, higher CFM/boost pressures (turbo), better flowing intake tract, better flowing exhaust tract, stronger bottom end, better head retention, better cooling - damn that's a big box of dominoes that starts falling once you start adding more fuel!

Yup and folks that don't follow a systematic engineered solution giving ability to harness/sustain the extra power, blow them up; and then bitch how bad the platform is.

 

[EWC]

FT , not up on the compound stuff . I'd like to try the ATT and see . For me , I'd try a tunnel ram with a set of 421 headers . Only have a 4911 pump and that's a good starting point . Who knows , might scatter the thing in the driveway .

 

[Husker6.5]

Yup and folks that don't follow a systematic engineered solution giving ability to harness/sustain the extra power, blow them up; and then bitch how bad the platform is.

The P400 long block would be the platform to use, but still has the same drawbacks to maximum power as the engines in 6.5 evolution it replaced - namely IDI/precup design and breathing in and out, essentially.

 

[FellowTraveler]

FT , not up on the compound stuff . I'd like to try the ATT and see . For me , I'd try a tunnel ram with a set of 421 headers . Only have a 4911 pump and that's a good starting point . Who knows , might scatter the thing in the driveway .

I had seen a few custom tunnel rams built for the 6.5td but never any feedback as far as I can remember however; that would be a good starting point.

 

[WarWagon]

@Turbine Doc I said I respected his research on balance flow, yet, I only purchased the Turbo Master from him. I got the "special" cooling system stuff from someone who made a better effort: Kennedy Diesel and a low temp fan clutch. Everything else was "off the shelf".

The first 6.5 part I sold used was the Dammed Turbo Master. It did get some results I published, but, things were SO badly set up by GM... I blead GM orange, but, I have been bled dry by GM's incompetent Bean Counters that ruined the North American Diesel market for 20+ years as well as put Lemon Laws on the books with the Olds 5.7 Diesel Hand Grenade. Badly set up: No top end power and an auto that shifts to top RPM all the time where there is no power. GM didn't even take the Olds 5.7 tricks and use them on the 6.5: Driving a Olds 5.7 diesel I noticed GM stalled it to get power out of it. The 6.5 is a animal when stalled with a big turbo like the ATT. And I never did get a good pump to throw fuel at that setup as all the videos I made were a turned up 6.2 NA pump aka nearly factory 6.5 fuel settings. @Will L. has put some light on GM's 6.5 cooling system foul ups.

Then the expectation of people to lug the shit out of the 6.5 at low RPM is near impossible to overcome. The 6.5 simply doesn't have the HP to back up the TQ at low RPM as OEM equipped. When you throw a towing turbo on the Low RPM the turbo doesn't produce boost at becomes a problem they won't ignore. I know some people that hate to rev an engine up no matter what it is and IMO it's ignorance when you need to like to get up a grade. Regardless leaning back into your seat as the RPM climbs to redline with the ATT lit off is a "About GD Time we got power out of this engine!" feeling. It stomps the engine fighting the turbo to breathe fealing with a GMx. Shrug: 454's suck just as bad for these years having no top end pull just noise and no-go.

To be fair about lugging and the expectation people have: I had to learn how to lug my 5.9 with the NV5600 MT as it did have low end grunt most expect out of a diesel.

You know the resistance to swapping turbos that made it a tough market. Yet turbo swaps on other diesels were common. That limited thinking cost me a lot of fuel money when I was working a 6.5 550 miles a day at 7.5 MPG. It could have been getting 10.4 MPG.

 

[Turbine Doc]

The P400 long block would be the platform to use, but still has the same drawbacks to maximum power as the engines in 6.5 evolution it replaced - namely IDI/precup design and breathing in and out, essentially.

Agree can only take the platform so far if you want to keep it together, can get more but at what cost and price to still be limited to output where more robust DI engines begin . Hell it is not fair you can plug in a tune and get 100HP+ but I like telling/demonstrating to folks it is more impressive building an engine to do what some would say is not doable/possible and proving how wrong they are.

 

[Turbine Doc]

@Turbine Doc I said I respected his research on balance flow, yet, I only purchased the Turbo Master from him. I got the "special" cooling system stuff from someone who made a better effort: Kennedy Diesel and a low temp fan clutch. Everything else was "off the shelf".

You know the resistance to swapping turbos that made it a tough market. Yet turbo swaps on other diesels were common. That limited thinking cost me a lot of fuel money when I was working a 6.5 550 miles a day at 7.5 MPG. It could have been getting 10.4 MPG.

I installed my ATT when I was making 500 mile 1 way weekly commutes to work when I was manager for the GE/CSX RR Diesel locomotive heavy maint. shop in Waycross GA same road, rpm, speed 70-75 mph swapping from my TDO7-22 to ATT my mileage range went from 385 miles to a tank (26 gal) to 425-440 contingent on right foot pressure to avoid monotony, traffic and prevailing wind strength & direction, I also dropped the Kennedy/Spearco IC and got a little more spool up speed not filling the IC as I was mostly boosting no more than 10 psi moving more air with the bigger non WG turbo, you ran ATT so you know the drill ..."BS can't happen...slug-turbo... blah... blah... blah"

 

[1999gmc]

Sad part is someone at Heath products was part of the demise, I sent them the TDO7-22 I started with upon Dennis recommendations, TD07 was the Genesis of the ATT, they sat on it for a year supposedly tested it and it didn't work for them, found out via someone that was there saw that it was never removed from the box I shipped it in don't know who to believe.

Just sad with proper tuning it would have been the every day turbo most 6.5ers needed, and not breaking the bank for, with performance capability with some more tweaks.

When I bought my ATT I sent Heath back my ECM to tune because he said he would only charge me $50. So I did and it woke it right up. Loved it but hated the smoke at high elevation. Fast forward probably close to 10 years and finally decide to to order the ATT tune from Patrick. He said I should still be able to run the same power with less smoke with new tune. I got it back from him and power was not even close to my Heath tune. So I sent it back to Dennis and he did a new tune for me. Been sitting on my bench for probably months. I need to throw it in and try it. I might this weekend. But would really like to have the power of Heaths without the smoke.

 

[Turbine Doc]

When I bought my ATT I sent Heath back my ECM to tune because he said he would only charge me $50. So I did and it woke it right up. Loved it but hated the smoke at high elevation. Fast forward probably close to 10 years and finally decide to to order the ATT tune from Patrick. He said I should still be able to run the same power with less smoke with new tune. I got it back from him and power was not even close to my Heath tune. So I sent it back to Dennis and he did a new tune for me. Been sitting on my bench for probably months. I need to throw it in and try it. I might this weekend. But would really like to have the power of Heaths without the smoke.

Dennis was tuning for OBD-1 with manual trans as that is what he had, he has a program he has yet to send me to try he says is much improved from what was out there before when paired with ATT, is getting close to retiring from day job as well, I might have to fly him down to MS from MI and we workup a tune with best of both worlds, Bill's tune responded similarly in my ride to what you describe, swapping to HT4 cam changed it a LOT in the wrong direction, there were about 10 variations derived from my truck back/forth to Bill that probably went into that tune you were running from Bill. After I went to HT4 cam Dennis leveraged the program he was running with his extra open throat pre-cups plus him also being 18:1 on his CR, it works better than the HT4 program Bill said works with that cam, but still does not have the crispness it once had with GM stock, ultimately I may go back to stock cam.