ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
Some engine codes will put you in limp mode too IIRC
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Winnebago on a p30 chassis with a 6.5l diesel and 4L80E transmission stuck in limp mode?
- Thread starter benh84
- Start date
So little update. I was looking at all the clone tech 2 scanners, and they were coming in at around the £300 mark, with 2 week shipping wait from China.
I managed to find a UK supplier selling a genuine Tech 2, for £360. So have just ordered that. Hopefully be with me Wednesday, can then hopefully find out a little more about the vehicle and what is going on.
I managed to find a UK supplier selling a genuine Tech 2, for £360. So have just ordered that. Hopefully be with me Wednesday, can then hopefully find out a little more about the vehicle and what is going on.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
HUGE SCORE!!!
I've finally had a chance to plug the Tech 2 in, but can't see any other DTCs.
So, I had a little play with the vehicle and the transmission. Tech 2, shows me in gear 1 for D and R. In a straight line accelerating, the engine just continues to increase revs and does not change up. If I come off the accelerator slightly and go back on, Tech 2 shows a gear change to 2 bit there doesn't seem to be a physical upshift, revs are still very high.
Am I right in thinking that the PCM must be operating correctly and it's sending the correct signal to the transmission?
Are there any things or parameters I should be checking?
Ive attached screen grabs of a video i took at idle, in Park. I'm not sure how helpful this is, but there maybe something out of range that someone else can spot.
So, I had a little play with the vehicle and the transmission. Tech 2, shows me in gear 1 for D and R. In a straight line accelerating, the engine just continues to increase revs and does not change up. If I come off the accelerator slightly and go back on, Tech 2 shows a gear change to 2 bit there doesn't seem to be a physical upshift, revs are still very high.
Am I right in thinking that the PCM must be operating correctly and it's sending the correct signal to the transmission?
Are there any things or parameters I should be checking?
Ive attached screen grabs of a video i took at idle, in Park. I'm not sure how helpful this is, but there maybe something out of range that someone else can spot.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
Remind me again, is your speedometer working? on the first pic I think I see "transmission OSS" at 0 RPM. I believe that is the output speed sensor. others please correct me if I am wrong here.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I would try raising the rear axle and securing it so you can drive it without going anywhere, watch the data on the scanner with your RPM to MPH along with trying to "feel" the trans shift when you see the PCM commanding it.
Thanks. I'll give that a shot next weekend when I can get it into the workshop.
In the UK, all vehicles must pass an annual vehicle inspection each year to be allowed use on the road. Unfortunately, the vehicle hasn't had a test in 6 years, so I'm limited to the confines of the yard it's stored in. Can get it up to about 20 mph, but it's hard to feel any shift.
So from the Tech 2, it says it shifts up from 1st to 2nd gear at around 16mph, (i cannot feel a shift, and revs do not drop significantly, only maybe by 100-150 Rpm) but only if I come off the accelerator, is that a normal response for these transmissions? All autos I've driven in the past, shift up without coming off the throttle and there's a much larger drop in RPM.
The other thing I've done today, that was recommended to me was to put some trans additive in to help soften the seals. Worth a shot as it has been sat for close to 7 years.
In the UK, all vehicles must pass an annual vehicle inspection each year to be allowed use on the road. Unfortunately, the vehicle hasn't had a test in 6 years, so I'm limited to the confines of the yard it's stored in. Can get it up to about 20 mph, but it's hard to feel any shift.
So from the Tech 2, it says it shifts up from 1st to 2nd gear at around 16mph, (i cannot feel a shift, and revs do not drop significantly, only maybe by 100-150 Rpm) but only if I come off the accelerator, is that a normal response for these transmissions? All autos I've driven in the past, shift up without coming off the throttle and there's a much larger drop in RPM.
The other thing I've done today, that was recommended to me was to put some trans additive in to help soften the seals. Worth a shot as it has been sat for close to 7 years.
Right, success finally.
I think the additive used has done the trick. I have a feeling the internal seals had hardened whilst sitting, or a valve had stuck. Which would explain the limp mode but no electrical faults.The additive has rectified this.
I put it in to the transmission last Saturday, got the oil hot and ran it round in the yard for about 45 minutes.
Today, put it on the inspection pit. Lifted the rear axle and drove the vehicle. Shifted perfectly, no more than 1.5 seconds from ecu shift to physical shift, nice and smooth. Even the coming off the gas to get the shift from 1 to 2 has gone. Stunned that something so simple has fixed the issue. But relieved. Thanks for all your advice and guidance!
I think the additive used has done the trick. I have a feeling the internal seals had hardened whilst sitting, or a valve had stuck. Which would explain the limp mode but no electrical faults.The additive has rectified this.
I put it in to the transmission last Saturday, got the oil hot and ran it round in the yard for about 45 minutes.
Today, put it on the inspection pit. Lifted the rear axle and drove the vehicle. Shifted perfectly, no more than 1.5 seconds from ecu shift to physical shift, nice and smooth. Even the coming off the gas to get the shift from 1 to 2 has gone. Stunned that something so simple has fixed the issue. But relieved. Thanks for all your advice and guidance!
jrsavoie
Recruit
I used that on the 2014 Honda CR-V
I think you need a reality check. You expect about the 2nd worst Light Duty Diesel Engine GM ever made, to follow up on the actual all time worst the Hand Gernade Oldsmobile Diesel Disaster that put Lemon Laws on the books here, to hold together and run? Worse minor problems will strand you with ZERO local knowledge to get you moving again. Big problems require a lift to remove the blown engine or transmission.
Yes, Bad Plan! I suggest you change the transmission oil and filter, pan drop, to help the next owner out and sell it. Then buy something that's better known and able to be fixed in your area of travel. Transmission is varnished or rusted up and has less than 50/50 odds of going any distance. One sticking valve for seconds is enough to burn a clutch pack clean out. It's given you a clear warning.
Here is an ultimate build of a rig like yours. Some of his trips ended in RV: Ruined Vacation because of major mechanical problems pushing distances needed to be towed to repair it here in The States.
6.5L TD Motorhome repair/repower
Well here we go. It's been almost a year 6/17/13, that my motorhome let me done and I broke my leg 2/23/13. Now, my leg has healed and I'm finally getting to the motorhome repair. Here's the thread, for those that don't know or don't remember...
www.thetruckstop.us
After going through all that effort, time, and expense ... it had a electrical problem or something and caught fire to ruin.
Goodness, gracious 3bals RV a-fire!
Breaking sad news. Just received a message from Jody @3bals as to why he didn't make it into Lincoln yesterday evening on he and his wife's vacation. At MM74 on I-80 in Iowa yesterday afternoon there was a fire in the engine compartment of his P-30 chassis-based motorhome that quickly spread...
www.thetruckstop.us
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dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I love your analogy @WarWagon.
Yes @benh84 you might want to consider dropping the trans oil pan and doing a fluid and filter change depending on what you find in the pan.
keep in mind that you want to use only Dextron III (3) nothing else. even if your are told that Dextron 6 is better, not for these transmissions. dex 6 will thin out when it gets hot.
What I have seen folks here do on trans that might have old varnish or sticking valves is dump a bottle of whats called motor purr in the trans, then go drive the crap out of it forcing it into passing gear multiple times forcing the fluid to get moving through all areas of the trans, then bring it back in and change the fluid and filter. it's not a fix all but only a "Hail Marry" hope it does the job. In your case with a motor home that has low mileage, your odds I would think are in your favor.
Yes @benh84 you might want to consider dropping the trans oil pan and doing a fluid and filter change depending on what you find in the pan.
keep in mind that you want to use only Dextron III (3) nothing else. even if your are told that Dextron 6 is better, not for these transmissions. dex 6 will thin out when it gets hot.
What I have seen folks here do on trans that might have old varnish or sticking valves is dump a bottle of whats called motor purr in the trans, then go drive the crap out of it forcing it into passing gear multiple times forcing the fluid to get moving through all areas of the trans, then bring it back in and change the fluid and filter. it's not a fix all but only a "Hail Marry" hope it does the job. In your case with a motor home that has low mileage, your odds I would think are in your favor.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Wow- if you can’t find transmission people that can do the 4l80e- that is insane!
One of the top 5 most popular used transmissions across platforms in the world.
All the gm uses, jaguar, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, and more used this transmission.
You either need to afford buying a complete brand new unit from some place like a GM dealership in the US, Summit Racing, or similar. Then make sure the temperature stays under 190°f the entire time for long life.
OR-
Sell it and get something that can be worked on locally.
Last option-
Learn to rebuild it yourself. Sit down on YouTube and start watching. Buy the actual training books and study them. Buy the required specialized tools and computer.
One of the top 5 most popular used transmissions across platforms in the world.
All the gm uses, jaguar, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, and more used this transmission.
You either need to afford buying a complete brand new unit from some place like a GM dealership in the US, Summit Racing, or similar. Then make sure the temperature stays under 190°f the entire time for long life.
OR-
Sell it and get something that can be worked on locally.
Last option-
Learn to rebuild it yourself. Sit down on YouTube and start watching. Buy the actual training books and study them. Buy the required specialized tools and computer.
Wait till they get to the forgotten diesel, the 6.5TD, that I biased my above comment on. I didn't think it was the transmission the OP couldn't get help on...
As a fairly competant mechanic, id like to think theres no job I couldn't do on the engine. In terms of auto transmissions, I have limited experience. But having watched a couple of strip downs and rebuilds on YouTube, theres nothing there i'd struggle with. Fortunately, I've plenty of experience of working outside of workshops, although I get the limitations that has and finding a workshop to use will have its difficulties.
The key thing I'm doing prior to the travelling, is ensuring there are no mechanical or electrical gremlins.
We'll see how that goes.
So, I've now got Tech 2, I've got ATSG manual for the 4l80e and I've watched loads of rebuilds on YouTube. That was my next port of call, if the Lube Gard didn't work. I had a chat with a guy who rebuilds the 4l80e, he said he was 99% certain it was just a seal that had hardened causing my issues, he had seen it before when vehicles had sat for a long time.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll grab a bottle. I've got a new filter coming and had already replaced the oil. But was going to replace the oil again, along with the filter.[/URL]
How did you get on with using it on the Honda? The guy who recommended it to me was pretty specific with it.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Ok- so long as you can handle getting into it when the time comes. Online we can’t really tell individual capabilities- so concern was it becoming a money pit that swallows you.
Take your time and learn the specifics of this engine because it has a horrible history. Once you know and address all the downfalls to avoid it is ok. But in an RV you are at the top of the work load for it. Many people assume it is an indestructible diesel just because the military uses them but fail to understand they replace these engines all the time from damage in under 10,000 miles. So don’t follow specs seen from them.
Begin with- in an RV there is no way I would ever run a thermostat any higher than a 180°f My normal recommendation is 190 is ok and by 220 you are pulled over and letting it idle back down to normal temperature. In an RV those numbers shift down. At 200° you back off the throttle. At 210° you pull over and let it idle back down to 180°. This is a light duty engine and in an RV it is medium duty work.
If you are going to stick with it, best keep your eyes open for a good deal on a low mileage engine or be setting aside money to buy a brand new one and from day one expect to tear it apart and correct the poor assembly line production issues.
The mechanic shops get everything wrong with handling this engine, it is a unicorn and must be dealt with as such.
The transmission is a different story- they are rock solid, 90% of owners never see a single problem. Repairing it when there is one is usually done easily in any location due to it being so commonplace. The biggest issue in it is when one finally wears out after a really long life, people try grabbing a similar but not interchangeable one from a different application and different year of a different used vehicle and find out after the fact that it was a mistake to do so.
Take your time and learn the specifics of this engine because it has a horrible history. Once you know and address all the downfalls to avoid it is ok. But in an RV you are at the top of the work load for it. Many people assume it is an indestructible diesel just because the military uses them but fail to understand they replace these engines all the time from damage in under 10,000 miles. So don’t follow specs seen from them.
Begin with- in an RV there is no way I would ever run a thermostat any higher than a 180°f My normal recommendation is 190 is ok and by 220 you are pulled over and letting it idle back down to normal temperature. In an RV those numbers shift down. At 200° you back off the throttle. At 210° you pull over and let it idle back down to 180°. This is a light duty engine and in an RV it is medium duty work.
If you are going to stick with it, best keep your eyes open for a good deal on a low mileage engine or be setting aside money to buy a brand new one and from day one expect to tear it apart and correct the poor assembly line production issues.
The mechanic shops get everything wrong with handling this engine, it is a unicorn and must be dealt with as such.
The transmission is a different story- they are rock solid, 90% of owners never see a single problem. Repairing it when there is one is usually done easily in any location due to it being so commonplace. The biggest issue in it is when one finally wears out after a really long life, people try grabbing a similar but not interchangeable one from a different application and different year of a different used vehicle and find out after the fact that it was a mistake to do so.
jrsavoie
Recruit
Worked great on the Honda.
I've been drop a filling the trans fluid every oil change.
They recommend 3 drop and fills. Instead I spread them and will do 4.
I used the additive the first drop and fills. No issues since.
Why this RV for full timing?
Can you change an engine in the RV campground? No not simple repairs but the engine cracks the main webs and what's left of the crankshaft is sitting on the road. Or cracks the heads and you are pulling heads off. Read the adventures of the member I linked...
Have you much experience going RVing? You are away from your shop, tools, and in this case difficulty working on this P30 because of a required lift for major repairs. Your next destination is held up while it's in the shop and then where do you live while they you/they wait for parts or repairs?
The MPG is as bad as a gasoline 454, 7.4L, because of GM's Asthma Attack Turbo. You lock the cooling fan in and waste MPG fighting all the heat the back pressure from the turbo keeps in the engine.
You see where other Motorhome RV's recommend you keep a spare engine around? Yeah no. Although 454's are considered high mileage at 100K miles working hard in an RV vs. a light duty pickup they wear out vs blow the hell up to scrapmetal. You are out of a home if you have to replace the engine.
The odds are not good for this 6.5TD engine working this hard. Correcting GM's beancounter cheap and design flaws for this engine are covered in the link I gave. That place is out of business as well as many others that helped this engine live.
This setup is better suited to going on vacation not full timing and expecting it to make it to the next place you call "Home".
Again I recommend "Something Else" for your full time RV.
Personally I have a 5th wheel in context a travel trailer. This way I can live in it IF the Tow Vehicle needs repairs OR I can trade the SOB Tow Vehicle in and be on my way by close of business. Someone can get the RV Trailer to any campground while the Tow Vehicle goes to a shop. My 5th wheel is on it's 3rd Tow Vehicle.