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What would you do?

R

Rodd

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Antelope, CA
With the 95 Sierra having a frozen motor, I need to know what you would do if you were in my shoes. I have the money to get an optimizer but my wife said no. I was looking and found an array of different used and rebuilt motors out there. Some of the used were high mileage and almost as much as a rebuilt one which is going to be a stretch for me to talk my wife into. I could attempt to rebuild the existing if it is rebuildable. The other thing is if I get a hummer take out I'm going to have to do some work to it to get it to work in our trucks since we have side mount turbos and the heads may need to be reworked. Not sure of the full list of things that I would need to do to make one of the center mount or non asperated motors work in our trucks.
 
Pull yours apart before doing anything. too many possibilities of little items being the issue. Once it is apart you will know whether or not to rebuild.

Like mentioned, the n/a hummer is same exact as truck long block. If you could only get hummer turbo engine, the intake manifold would be the only fight. A simple piece of angle iron can bolt in place of the turbo and seal off the oil ports using the factory seal. Exhaust stuff all will work on either head.
 
Clearly listen to the wife. You can be happy or you can be right.... ;) This doesn't mean you can't drive a certain 2012 Ford Expedition Max Limited for awhile.

As suggested in the other thread knowing why the engine failed and if it could be fixed is still critical. Spun bearing, cracked heads and hydrolocked, etc? I was the "kid" that pulled the rocker cover off a Olds engine on a pallet while dad was dropping in a junkyard 455 because the pulled engine was knocking and missing. I learned new words from dad that day when I asked about the busted rocker... he had assumed it popped a rod. 6.5's pop head gaskets and crack heads often enough to explore the hydrolock possibility 1st.

The truck is worth maybe $1000.00 with a blown engine. On a good day running the value is below a new Optimizer engine. What's the condition of the truck and is it 4x4? Regardless replacement truck cost makes this merely a math quiz.

More to the point: who drives what and "why?" As your kid was driving it maybe it's time to re-think a vehicle for them. Not saying a 6.5 isn't a disposable engine, but, gas trucks tend to be cheaper. I wouldn't recommend a rolling coffin on wheels small car for anyone. So now you have "decent" replacement vehicle cost to compare to a new optimizer.

This said rebuilding a used optimizer can be close to the cost of one new. At the minimum take out optimizers should get a new set of rings. You don't rebuild crack prone GM cast blocks merely overhaul them with a cylinder de-glaze and new rings. Gapless rings if you have the $ for it. I would even put gapless rings in a new 6.5 engine via sending the 'new in engine' second ring out to be made gapless.
 
Will L. said:
Pull yours apart before doing anything. too many possibilities of little items being the issue. Once it is apart you will know whether or not to rebuild.

Like mentioned, the n/a hummer is same exact as truck long block. If you could only get hummer turbo engine, the intake manifold would be the only fight. A simple piece of angle iron can bolt in place of the turbo and seal off the oil ports using the factory seal. Exhaust stuff all will work on either head.
Click to expand...
So the Hummer turbo engine is a better block than the N/A? or is it the same? Whats the difference?
 
Rodd said:
Teds called me back to day and has an NA for $2950 I didn't ask about the center turbo model from the Hummer.
Click to expand...

Is this at least an Optimizer? GM cast blocks are not worth it. Even the surplus 6.2 GM cast stuff I got is up to $2000.00 - used to be $950.00 each. Figure your labor at $1000.00 to swap engines. IMO Center turbo models are more trouble to drop in than you need to deal with.

Not much off the cost of buying a running pickup esp. if you are looking at a new engine for $4300 more at $7250.00.
 
Coolant usually (very rarely fuel or oil) inside the cylinder. Fluid can not be compressed, so it stops the piston from moving.

Remove all 8 glow plugs and try turning over engine again. If it is hydrolocked, the fluid will come out the hole and allow the engine to turn over.

Worth a try, but I don’t suspect this because you can’t go foreward or backwards.

If you try this and get nothing, then remove the belt and try again.

I suspect a mechanical obstruction that will require more disassembly to discover.
 
That sucks Rodd. I had 2 6.5L long blocks at the shop I was going to pull them apart and see what was wrong with each one. Neither was a navistar block. 1 was already rebuilt once(had a tag with a name like RECON or something like that). After sitting there for 6 or so years I told scrap metal guy to take them. Want to say he gave me $50 or something for them. Wish I still had them now for you to see if out of the 3 you could make one decent one.
 
Will L. said:
Coolant usually (very rarely fuel or oil) inside the cylinder. Fluid can not be compressed, so it stops the piston from moving.

Remove all 8 glow plugs and try turning over engine again. If it is hydrolocked, the fluid will come out the hole and allow the engine to turn over.

Worth a try, but I don’t suspect this because you can’t go foreward or backwards.

If you try this and get nothing, then remove the belt and try again.

I suspect a mechanical obstruction that will require more disassembly to discover.
Click to expand...
Thanks will. Yea, I don't think it is hydrolocked. What should I take a part first in searching for the culprit? Do I need to pull the engine to get at the oil pan or should I take off the valve covers and pull the heads?
 
1999gmc said:
That sucks Rodd. I had 2 6.5L long blocks at the shop I was going to pull them apart and see what was wrong with each one. Neither was a navistar block. 1 was already rebuilt once(had a tag with a name like RECON or something like that). After sitting there for 6 or so years I told scrap metal guy to take them. Want to say he gave me $50 or something for them. Wish I still had them now for you to see if out of the 3 you could make one decent one.
Click to expand...
Thanks Wyatt! I have been meaning to stop by your shop and see what you thought but I have been slammed with work since January and hardly have had any time to work on it.
 
Even if not convinced about hydrolocked.
Pull 8 glowplugs.
Remove serpintine belt and try rotating again.

What transmission do you have?

I know there was another thread you described what happened, but talking to 2 other guys with major engine problems and can’t keep yours separated. Can you post link to other thread or describe with as much detail what happened and any work done to it before this occured?
 
Will L. said:
Even if not convinced about hydrolocked.
Pull 8 glowplugs.
Remove serpintine belt and try rotating again.

What transmission do you have?

I know there was another thread you described what happened, but talking to 2 other guys with major engine problems and can’t keep yours separated. Can you post link to other thread or describe with as much detail what happened and any work done to it before this occured?
Click to expand...
Here is the link to the other thread. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/stall-no-start.47191/
It has the auto trans 4l80e. I really haven't done much other than replace the oil, fuel filter, ps pump, starter, and oh yea a rebuilt trans as of 8 months ago.
 
Ok. Now I am straightened out.

Take the air intake of the turbo and inspect the compressor wheel (fresh air side not exhaust) for damage and make sure it spins ok. A wiped turbo can throw small metal parts into the cylinders locking them up.

Other than that it’s same thing-pull glowplugs, back 2 are most likely if hydrolocked.

After that is checking pushrods are inplace on rocker arms and under oil pan inspections examining bores for horizontal scars indicating twisted ring and looking at bearings. Finally is remove radiator and tear down past timing cover to look for something damaged there by removing timing chain and try spinning crank seperate from cam.

The other possibility is something with transmission, but since you can’t turn it over, other then trying to see something around flexplate/ torque converter, it becomes pull the engine with tc connected still- and that is a challenge sometimes because engine has to come straight foreward like 8” or something before going up. If you have already pulled radiator to protect it while ripping apart timing cover for inspection, that MIGHT give enough room, been too long since I have done it to remember if that will clear. Need input from someone else more recently thats done it to say.

Some people jump right to remove engine and tear down on stand, but since money isn’t already set aside for replacement engine- I would tear most the way apart inframe. Most Those parts that are hard (accessories) will come off anyways before coming out.
 
Will L. said:
Ok. Now I am straightened out.

Take the air intake of the turbo and inspect the compressor wheel (fresh air side not exhaust) for damage and make sure it spins ok. A wiped turbo can throw small metal parts into the cylinders locking them up.

Other than that it’s same thing-pull glowplugs, back 2 are most likely if hydrolocked.

After that is checking pushrods are inplace on rocker arms and under oil pan inspections examining bores for horizontal scars indicating twisted ring and looking at bearings. Finally is remove radiator and tear down past timing cover to look for something damaged there by removing timing chain and try spinning crank seperate from cam.

The other possibility is something with transmission, but since you can’t turn it over, other then trying to see something around flexplate/ torque converter, it becomes pull the engine with tc connected still- and that is a challenge sometimes because engine has to come straight foreward like 8” or something before going up. If you have already pulled radiator to protect it while ripping apart timing cover for inspection, that MIGHT give enough room, been too long since I have done it to remember if that will clear. Need input from someone else more recently thats done it to say.

Some people jump right to remove engine and tear down on stand, but since money isn’t already set aside for replacement engine- I would tear most the way apart inframe. Most Those parts that are hard (accessories) will come off anyways before coming out.
Click to expand...
Thanks Will! Now I have to find time.
 
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