Waterwetter vs. 50/50 glycol ??

[buddy]

There is more than one water wetter type product.

The problem seems to be that people do not understand that you arent supposed to use it with 50/50 mix. In that case its useless and wont do anything and is a waste. The whole point is that it replaces the need for antifreeze. antifreeze reduces the efficiency of the waters cooling ability. But it keeps it from freezing overnight. Well if it doesnt get below freezing then you dont need to be wasting that cooling efficiency on a 50/50 anti-freeze mix. The water wetter has the anti-corosion and raises the boiling point of water just like antifreeze without the efficiency drop.

I run only distilled water and a bottle of water wetter, plus whatever antifreeze was in the block. My temps sit at 180 all the time, unless I run 120mph then it might get to 195 after a few minutes.

Antifreeze does nothing for you over water wetter in the summer. The less antifreeze and more water you use, the more heat the water can absorb. The product tells you not to use 50/50 mix, and perhaps only 10% antifreeze

I ran this same way through death valley, Las Vegas and over the Rockies all in one day with the A/C on and never went over 195 degrees. Wasnt towing, but truck was loaded. I also only have low flow water pump.

 

[Detroit Dan]

I could have sworn the bottle I bought just said to add it to radiator, to existing fluid. Not sure what brand it was, but I can find out and read the bottle. If so, that would explain why I saw no difference. Either way, I'm not willing to give up the benefits of anti-freeze for a possible improvement in cooling. It would be pretty expensive to flush out and replace twice a year, not to mention disposal.

 

[Detroit Dan]

So, if it raises the boiling point of water, then that's different than lowering temps. What I bought claimed to lower temp by 10 degrees, rather than raise the boiling point. I'm not even particularly worried about boiling it, the goal was to lower the temp when it wanted to get hot. Did that make sense?

I thought anti-freeze/coolant was supposed to help cooling as well as prevent freezing. I know thats what everyone says now, that water is better, but I remember (vaguely) learning that coolant was just that, coolant.

 

[buddy]

since water boils at temps lower than your engine could run, thats why you use coolant, to raise the boiling point. Anti-freeze/coolant has absolutely no advantage or benefit over water wetter, other than it prevents freezing. The reason it raises the boiling point is to prevent vapor pockets and maintain good surface contact to the metal. Dont want bits of water turning to steam when engine gets over 210. The pressure of the system also increases boiling temp, so in all the system works at temps above the standard boiling point of water.

The way water wetter lowers temps is by lowering glycol volume and replacing it with more water which can transfer more heat.

The water wetter has all of the anti-rust, anti-corosion, lubrication, and boil prevention/surface tension benefits of anti-freeze/coolant.

 

[robzombie4551]

That makes sense. If all it is,corrosion,rust inhibitors and lubricants, than water with these products would lower temps through more efficient heat transfer. That would be why it listed temp differences between all three [50/50,water alone, and waterwith their product]. I will try it and post the results after I tow at the end of the month. I'm not worried about costs of swapping between seasons. Overheated engines cost more than two bottles of antifreeze.

 

[Detroit Dan]

I guess I could go a pretty long time before I had to worry about freezing. (Although I saw snowflakes last night and had to light my stove again.)

anyone know offhand what the cooling system capacity is on our trucks? And whats a good way to flush the system out. I bought a tee but it's made to go in a rubber line, mine has a metal line. When I did it before I took the rad out to clean it, and the thermostats and flushed it out with a hose. But a tee would be nice. afik it's only been done once since I've owned it, so it's probably the only time. Can't hurt to do it again although it's only been maybe two years. Maybe I will try the water wetter again if I do flush the system thoroughly again. Then not worry about it until next winter.

 

[buddy]

I also ran it in our demo derby cars that we run full throttle for like 10-15 minutes in the derby. And the concept worked really well in them too, since you sit at full throttle most of the time running through the mud.

 

[Detroit Dan]

The problem seems to be that people do not understand that you arent supposed to use it with 50/50 mix. In that case its useless and wont do anything and is a waste.

I checked that Redline link and it doesn't say not to use it with 50/50, the way it's worded it just says you can use it with water in race engines (antifreeze not allowed on racetracks) and that it's compatible with antifreeze. Also says it improves efficiency of ethylene and glycol formulas.

"Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOLTM and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems " -from the website. That looks like the bottle I bought at Advance Auto.
If they want you to use it with straight water for the most benefit, such as the ten degrees they promise, then perhaps they should tell you to use it with water. I'm not arguing with Buddy, what he says makes sense, but they could have been a little more clear about it.
I'm going to look at it again though, maybe it is worth another try using it with just water for the summer months. Probably could get away with it during the winter cause I plug it in when it's real cold, but then again, that's a heck of a risk to take, if the power went out or something. I'm also going to look at getting some in the race cars, I don't think theres anything in there but water right now.

 

[tanman_2006]

I guess I could go a pretty long time before I had to worry about freezing. (Although I saw snowflakes last night and had to light my stove again.)

anyone know offhand what the cooling system capacity is on our trucks? And whats a good way to flush the system out. I bought a tee but it's made to go in a rubber line, mine has a metal line. When I did it before I took the rad out to clean it, and the thermostats and flushed it out with a hose. But a tee would be nice. afik it's only been done once since I've owned it, so it's probably the only time. Can't hurt to do it again although it's only been maybe two years. Maybe I will try the water wetter again if I do flush the system thoroughly again. Then not worry about it until next winter.

The way I did it on all my gassers ways drain the radiator and fill it with water and repeat until your satisfied. I'm sure its not different in these trucks besides you have to fill it through the puke tank. My radiator is good and clean INSIDE (outside between the fins is a diff story) i watched the stealership flush it before I bought it. They put in a mix for like -50* I wont ever see below -10* in Oklahoma and thats maybe 2 days a year.

I am also going to try Waterwetter this summer and just replace with 50/50 in october or november.

 

[robzombie4551]

I'm going by what it said on the bottle I read. I will go back and get some this wknd and post exactly what it says and will also verify it's worth after towing a steep grade. After reading these responses it seems to me it would be compatible witha a/f, just won't see benefit you would with product+water. glycol is designed to keep water from freezing and water alone is better at heat removal. There must be something else in there besides lub/rust protection because it says IIRC, [up to] 10* cooler than water alone. Covering their a** with the up to statement in case there is no difference. I've been running straight water for a week now and it is running cooler and comes down faster after full throttle runs. It may not be better than water except to protect against rust, but I guess I'll try and find out.

 

[bobbiemartin]

since water boils at temps lower than your engine could run, thats why you use coolant, to raise the boiling point.

I would say that is not exactly correct. Your cooling system will happily work just fine with plain water (in fact, some competition sanctioning bodies have rules forbidding coolant). The way you raise the boiling point is to raise the pressure. That is why your radiator cap allows the radiator to build pressure, to raise the boiling point of whatever is in there.

FWIW, I have run Red Line WaterWetter in modified cars with marginal cooling systems. I would say it helps a little, probably more if you are on the ragged edge. If your cooling system is up to snuff, then you won't see much difference. I would say its one of those things that helps a little, but it will not cure a problem. However, should you really tax your cooling system on a hot day, then it may give you that little extra safety margin.

 

[WarWagon]

Water wetter breaks the surface tension of water. Less effective on coolant mixes, but still works. Surface tension allows steam bubbles to collapse and condense quicker. Hot spots in your engine do form steam bubbles in the coolant. As this is pure water it has to get below 212, or raised 16 psi boiling point of water, in the radiator before it will condense. The raised boiling point of 50/50 mix of coolant is useless to condense steam bubbles.

This is the small improvement that water wetter offers. Just a slight edge with a good cooling system. Must be added every year or so.

As to the OP, these trucks have a severe airflow problem through the radiator. Due to body design. So any restriction in the radiators will drop off the marginal airflow and cause you to go over the critical 215 with any load.

Getting a better fan with 9+ blades and cleaning out the condenser/radiator is the #1 cure for running hot.

 

[buddy]

It is a simple fact that antifreeze raises the boiling point of water. The antifreeze boils at twice the temperature, so at a 50/50 solution it would ideally be right in the middle of the two, raising the water from 212F to almost 300F for the solution. Antifreeze bottle may say overboil protection to 275F or something. By pressure of commercial cars alone the boiling point of water is only raised to 245F or so. Yes its enough for us to run just water, but our system is not entirely closed and when you shut it off pressure goes down and engine could still be 220F.

As for the working better with only water this is what the water wetter tech info says

Water has twice the heat transfer capability when compared to 50% glycol antifreeze/coolant in water. Most passenger automobiles have a cooling system designed to reject sufficient heat under normal operating conditions using a 50/50 glycol solution in water. However, in racing applications, the use of water and WaterWetter® will enable the use of smaller radiator systems, which means less frontal drag, and it will also reduce cylinder head temperatures, even when compared to water alone, which means more spark advance may be used to improve engine torque.

This tech file from them explains most of it
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/WaterWetter Tech Info.pdf

I dont remember which one I used but the bottle told me that the most efficient heat transfer was with all water, but recommended street vehicles use 10% anti-freeze maybe for the greater boilover protection.

Water wetter doesnt raise the boiling point as much as anti-freeze, but any impurity to the water will raise the boiling temp. Just adding salt to your water on the stove will make it boil at a higher temp and better for cooking noodles.

 

[buddy]

I was at Napa and looked at the Red Line watter wetter bottle and it has info on the back of their testing that shows 50/50 glycol temp was 228, adding water wetter was 220, water alone was 220, and water + water wetter was 208.

So the bottle does suggest to you to not put so much antifreeze in for the best results.

One important thing is to NOT get the "diesel" water wetter. The "diesel" one is for semi trucks with 15 gallon systems and it has NO lubricators or rust inhibitors, because they assume those guys are going to continue to use at least 30% glycol as required by warranties or something.

And thinking about our coolant system I guess it is completely closed, compared to some of my other vehicles where the overflow was low pressure. Thats a good thing.

Running straight water is not advised though, as you need them rust inhibitors and lubrication.

 

[robzombie4551]

OKAY,NOW I"M FRUSTATED. I try to show this truck some love and give it the maint. it deserves. Well after cleaning the rad inside and out, I guess the flush worked to well, It started pissing somewhere under the r/h manifold. I'm betting middle freeze plug. Had to put bars/alum. in it. It stopped leaking in less than a minute, I was amazed but need to know what a bitch it is to change it. Can it be done without removing the engine?