• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

VP44 Comp Box on DS4?

6.5L said:
The problem with any of the DB/DS style pumps is beyond tuning, and is a limit of the internals and design. Depending on different spots. Right now, one of the biggest limit of the DS pump comes in the fuel solenoid opening and closing. Tuning can only get it open for so long. Heaths pump has somehow overcome this, and talking with my pump guy, he believes it is because Heath has used a different solenoid from another type of Stanadyne pump (there is a lot) that can be commanded differently through the tuning. Hence how he is able to get more fueling. Still limited though after a point because of internal changes and charging/discharge port locations. If I recall, the DS ports are slotted where as the DB are not, which allows for more fuel duration into the charge and discharge ports. So why we see bigger fuel rates stock DB vs stock DS. I could be a bit off. Been a while since I've had one apart. As far as potential goes, the DB platforms have a huge potential for more fueling because of different cam rings, plungers, shoes, leaf springs, and the ease of changing mods internally.
Click to expand...

Hmmm a different solenoid. That's intriguing. I wonder if it is faster responding or what? Also there should be some parts from DB pumps that can be adapted. There definitely seems to be an issue with just a lack of aftermarket combined with issues in tuning.
 
The interchangeability is pretty much zero. Just looking at a cam ring from a DS4 to a DB2, you will see why. A DS4's cam ring is almost non-existent relative to a DB pump. The DS works on a whole other platform compared to a DB pump
 
Straight from my pump guy "See if you can come up with a chip/power enhancing device for an application that uses a DE Stanadyne pump. John Deere 310SE comes to mind. The reason for it is the DE pump is just like a DS except for one thing: the PMD is incorporated into the ECM. This "Heath Merlin SHO" pump that you hear about is a DS pump but uses some tech off of a DE, especially the fuel control solenoid which is what we are after to control"
 
6.5L said:
The interchangeability is pretty much zero. Just looking at a cam ring from a DS4 to a DB2, you will see why. A DS4's cam ring is almost non-existent relative to a DB pump. The DS works on a whole other platform compared to a DB pump
Click to expand...

I have seen the cam rings. That's why I was wondering if it would work. I have heard they can interchange even with the big differences in them. Other than the ramp differences, what do you think would be the hold up? I do know that DB pumps have limiters where the DS4 does not.
 
6.5L said:
Straight from my pump guy "See if you can come up with a chip/power enhancing device for an application that uses a DE Stanadyne pump. John Deere 310SE comes to mind. The reason for it is the DE pump is just like a DS except for one thing: the PMD is incorporated into the ECM. This "Heath Merlin SHO" pump that you hear about is a DS pump but uses some tech off of a DE, especially the fuel control solenoid which is what we are after to control"
Click to expand...

I agree with alternate tuning. Did the pump guy know about being able to chip or tune the stock ecu? What do you think is the difference with DE solenoid?
 
IDK what the differences are. I did find a power adder for the DE pumps and sent him a link a little bit ago. He is going to look into it. Seems happy that somebody found something. He specializes in DS and DB pumps. Certified Bosch and Stanadyne pump monkey. Works everyday with these. I trust whatever he goes with. I will keep you updated. I think you can control the solenoid a lot better with a DE pump compared to a DS. Just speculation. I will get some info on it more in depth here later.
 
What is the power adder that you speak of if you don't mind me asking?

And he sounds knowledgeable. Its always good to know a good builder. One thing I do think though, is different builders may have different techniques to get more fuel out of certain pumps. The only reason I say this, is that iirc, Justin does EDM some parts in the pump head and other parts as well in the DB pumps to get more flow. I'm not sure how much of what he does to those translates but I would be interested to see what he can do as well. I will certainly do some research on the DE pump. I knew it had some similarities but I was not sure to what extent. I look forward to hearing about what you find on it!
 
I'd assume it increases fuel delivery by the same means as on a DS pump, just better. Not entirely sure. Gonna let my guy dig around with it a bit. It is a 3 stage multi-tune device
 
It'd be interesting to know a few things about the DS4 fuel solenoid that I could translate into the PCM limitations and if those limitations can be removed. For example, how do the test stand control signals correlate to the maximum values allowed by the PCM?

I have the ability to recompile certain aspects of the PCM code now and can alter the way things work on both OBD1 and OBD2 but that's an entirely different knowledge/toolset from understanding what needs changed to solve the issues that plague the DS4.

I saw someone mention using a standalone controller but you'd have to be a PCM/ECM engineer to accomplish that most likely. There's a man far smarter than myself who attempted to do it before and trashed the idea rather quickly.
 
I'm almost convinced it would just be easier to use a stand alone computer than manipulate the signal via an external box or even the programming itself. The stand alone I mentioned is actually built for common rails mostly but it drives both Piezo injectors or solenoid injectors. The computer itself is open source and the company will help adapt it to whatever is needed. The computer is Adaptronic E1280. Its somewhat pricey for most at $1600 but if someone is looking for all out power on a DS4, it could open up a lot of possibilities as far as tuning goes.
 
6.5L said:
IDK what the differences are. I did find a power adder for the DE pumps and sent him a link a little bit ago. He is going to look into it. Seems happy that somebody found something. He specializes in DS and DB pumps. Certified Bosch and Stanadyne pump monkey. Works everyday with these. I trust whatever he goes with. I will keep you updated. I think you can control the solenoid a lot better with a DE pump compared to a DS. Just speculation. I will get some info on it more in depth here later.
Click to expand...

So from the digging I have done, the DE pump programming is different due to the fact that the computer essentially manipulates timing with when the fuel solenoid is open and closed in relation to crank degrees. If more fuel is needed it will hold the solenoid closed longer. If timing needs to be advanced it will close the solenoid earlier or it will close it later to retard it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top