Valve springs for stock seats

[Rafedial1]

Ok, I am looking to finish my quest for a replacement valve spring, capable of higher rpms, cam events that will fit in the stock seat. A Single spring setup, not dual

I know, i know. Why not just cut the seats for any spring you want? Not sure why I do things the hard way? explain to me why i shouldn't

Well, I plan to use a set of CCH heads. This was after a long unsuccessful search for a good/crack free pair of heads #567s. I just can't bring myself to risk an old head over my new pistons. I did find a use for those that were cracked, practicing my hand porting techniques.

I am convinced from what I have read, that CCh heads will work great i my application.

One thing I may do though is add a set of OEM precups, instead of the ferrous ones that come with CCH.

Ok...let's start with the oem valve spring specs I measured.(error: should all be within 0.01" of actual)

O.D. - 1.268"
Inside Spring Diamter: 0.750" (<--this is critical for those looking into double springs)
Wired Diameter - 0.192"
Coils - 6.6
Closed Height: 1.811"
Closed Pressure 75lb.
Open Height: 1.39"
Open Pressure: 218lb.
Type: Single spring with dampner

These specs are inline with all 6.5L Turboed engines that I am sure of. maybe even he N/As. Dont see why not.

Questions:
can I get rid of rotators all together? I know it promotes even heating and wear of the valve, so i'll keep em.

I think with a single spring of similar O.D. I could reuse the stock retainer.

If I replaced the CCH precups with OEM, with they have to be cut to a certain depth/protrusion out of the head? is it flush or slighty protruding in it's proper placement?

I have a list of about a half dozen spring part numbers that may be exatcly what I need. I just need your help to set it all in stone. like always I am open to all advice, whether it's just your opinion or actual experience, doesn't matter.

 

[Rafedial1]

why am I up? full moon it is.

NOTE: closed height is same as installed height.

Let's take a look at one example...
Dual Spring setup, w/rotators
Howards #98116 $150
IH: 1.800"
OH: 1.150"
IID: 0.830"
O.D. 1.290"

135lb closed, and 340 lb at open height

would this be rough on the lifters?

Single spring in stock seat, w/rotators
Howards 98215(or 98213very similar)
IH: 1.800"
O.D. 1.265"
I.I.D: 0.875"
387lb /in.

Any beehive spring fans out there? what say you?

 

[uniquediesel]

Valve springs for your seats? You really should check the condition of the cloth on your seats before considering new springs. Otherwise one might pop through when you're hammering down on the throttle and bite you in the thigh.

:hihi:

 

[Rafedial1]

haha, do you have anything important to add?

if not, you can see your way out.

I built this whole car by myself. every bolt, wire. If things keep going this way, I guess I am building my first 6.5 engine alone too. Not a problem.

I don't come to these forums to gain support, or friends. I only have 4 years of experience with the 6.5, so I search for wisdom anywhere I can find it.

So I will stick to my books.

maybe sometime in spring I'll show you what I have created in my hick-laboratory.

 

[tanman_2006]

Lol I think chevydiesel was just screwing with you. It seems he knows how to build a "decent" 6.5, the article on the drag truck was great reading.

I have no advice for you but I had to subscribe somehow! lol

Good Luck, I look foward to seeing what you do this time!

 

[Rafedial1]

Lol I think chevydiesel was just screwing with you. It seems he knows how to build a "decent" 6.5, the article on the drag truck was great reading.

I have no advice for you but I had to subscribe somehow! lol

Good Luck, I look foward to seeing what you do this time!

ahh... sarcasm. Thanks Tanman_2006. The internet leaves much to be desired as far as face-to-face convos, you know? Alot is missed, or misunderstood.

I know chevydiesel has experience building the 6.5, so I was hoping that his first post in this thread, wasn't the last.

 

[btfarm]

I'd think you really need to find a sharp cam grinder tech that knows what you need. Real high spring pressures are hell on stock lifters and even more hell on cams. That is why they make roller cams. Might try talking to somebody at Comp Cams. I kinda doubt if they have much diesel knowledge but you never can tell. Have you called Heath? Those guys might steer you down a new path.

 

[Woody35]

i know someone built some custom heads on another forum and a guy here bought them. he used some big block chevy valve springs but not sure if there double or if he used stock retainers but its a good thread to check out. its in the perfromance section but back a few pages. it includes links to another site where this guy posted his build.

 

[tanman_2006]

i know someone built some custom heads on another forum and a guy here bought them. he used some big block chevy valve springs but not sure if there double or if he used stock retainers but its a good thread to check out. its in the perfromance section but back a few pages. it includes links to another site where this guy posted his build.

Yeah I think it was a custom 6.2l.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Max PF

 

[Rafedial1]

yep I remember that thread. I think he cut his seats for those, and had a set of roller rockers. I am interested in keeping the 6.5L rockers and an uncut head.

Can anyone tell me how much a Precup is supposed to protrude out of the head? Or is it flush?

wild question: has anyone done a metalurgical(spl?) test on the metal that makes up a Clearwater cylinder head? an oem head?

 

[ak diesel driver]

Ive heard just above flush is best to make sure precup can't move. don't have any specs tho

 

[buddy]

With your skills and ambitions I would try to get some roller rockers on there too. Higher ratio as well. Then with a bit more lift I would also get the beehive springs even though you wont reach their lift capability before binding, they are also less mass and work better at higher RPM, which you can achieve easily if you get the incoming air coming in more efficiently. If you get a custom cam and do higher ratio rockers you can also get modified lifters that bleed down at low rpm to cut out like 8* of duration and some lift, but reach max lift and duration around 3000rpm. Just have to make sure you have the clearance at max lift and duration.

 

[3500GMC]

For your non towing use, I would get rid of the 'rotators' altogether.

Anything much over 280-300 pounds on a hydraulic lifter will pound it into oblivion. Roller or Not.

I would consider a lighter valvetrain like Max PF had/has... Pushrods are huge in the 6.2&5's. Lighter valves (titanium) with a smaller stem and a modest undercut would be titties. The EX valves have a much bigger stem to take the heat. TI can take the heat.

Roller lifters are inherently heavy. It would be cruel and unusual punishment to go SOLID roller.... Setting lash?

I have not tried the bee-hive type springs, but the hoopla sounds inviting. Never know until you try 'em.

Maybe you could go to titanium retainers, since I think the stems where the LOCKS are measures 11/32"...

Just some thoughts.

 

[Rafedial1]

For your non towing use, I would get rid of the 'rotators' altogether.
Sounds good, the loads I put on the engine are usually short burst, at most 1/4mi of full load. my engine temps and egts have never gone past 195degf and 950degf, respectively. Is this why you agree?

relevant, I pledge to change my driving habits with the car and only drive to shows and races with the new engine. no more racing s't'r'e'e't either

I need to weigh this car(dumbass).

Anything much over 280-300 pounds on a hydraulic lifter will pound it into oblivion. Roller or Not.

apples/oranges, but I messed alot with GM LS1(LSx) engines and more importantly, the valvetrain. All 4.8L/5.3L/5.7LS1/6.0L Gm engines have beehive springs OEm. All aftermarket single sets for them are beehive as well. Coicidentaly the LS1 engines have a similar installed height/close height at 1.800" and I have two Ls1 part numbers that will work on an uncut 6.5L head with little/no shimming. I ran 0.570 lift cam(stock .466/.457") on a stock uncut 5.3L head, Comp 918 springs(313lb/in.) on oem hydro/roller lifters for 20,000 miles without a hitch.

so did you mean, 6.5L lifters wont handle over 300 lb/in. spring pressure or all hydro/rollers>?


I would consider a lighter valvetrain like Max PF had/has... Pushrods are huge in the 6.2&5's. Lighter valves (titanium) with a smaller stem and a modest undercut would be titties. The EX valves have a much bigger stem to take the heat. TI can take the heat.

Roller lifters are inherently heavy. It would be cruel and unusual punishment to go SOLID roller.... Setting lash?

I'll pass on the solid roller. hehe.

I have not tried the bee-hive type springs, but the hoopla sounds inviting. Never know until you try 'em. See above

Maybe you could go to titanium retainers, since I think the stems where the LOCKS are measures 11/32"...
yep the locks are 7 degree, 11/32" stems. Ti retainers are too pricey for my blood.
Just some thoughts.

much appreciated!

 

[3500GMC]

I base my info on nuts and bolts building of the venerable BBC and SBC engines. Love 'em

The LSX valvetrain is brilliant. Still POOSHrod, but still badass.

The poundage on spring really has not been explored with our little diesels and their Hyd roller setups. Who knows?

I was coming from the perspective of inertia. The old 6.2&5 is real heavy compared to the killer LSX lightweight valvetrain. Start cranking high R's on a big bulky valvetrain and things start to get out of sorts.

The bee-hive retainer is tiny. Even in steel, it would rival a 'normal' size TI retainer I would bet. I have not weighed any of this stuff, though.