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Ultimate 6.2/6.5 engine build questions

GJF

GJF

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In theory,
What would be the ultimate block to use, a 6.2 or a 6.5.

It seems to me the 6.5's only crack if it gets over heated.

If I have a 99 block that is crack free would there be any reason not to use it?

Do they crack if you try to run over 300HP or is it just the overheating.

For 18:1 pistons at what temperature do the engines have a hard time starting?

I have the resources to make billet roller rockers for the 6.5. Do you think these would be any advantage over stock since the motors don't rev that much? :smile5:
 
The only info I can answer right now is that the use of a 6.2 block will be better. Its a better built, and stronger block than the 6.5. Though block strengthenr won't hurt you either.

IIRC 18:1 engines will experiance hard starting around 20 degree's F.
 
roller rockers will increase valve guide life span considerably. There will also be some, not sure how much, increase in performance,mpg, etc. Less friction translates to more performance. If you want the ultimate than definately go with roller rockers.
 
The 599 blocks are generally the most sought after (these days they are getting thin though), many guys consider them the best block to use.
But if you have a good crack free block block, there is really no reason to replace it. If it hasn't cracked yet, the chances are that it wont.

Of course going to 300 is a delicate issue, they will survive with the right stuff. Of course a girdle, main studs, and head studs are a must.
 
I dunno with the 6.2 being a stronger block. if there is anything, I think it would be so slight, you would never notice the difference.

working on making that 300 myself. just make sure you give your engine MAXIMUM cooling capability and make sure you got studs, girdle, and anything else you can add to get yourself some extra bottom end strength.
 
I'm sure I'll take a beating for saying this, -but most steel stud girdles are a waste of time.

Steel is soft and elastic, -cast iron, -not so much. By the time the steel has any opportunity to take any load, the cast iron is already broke.

In order for the piece to truly do any good, it needs to be made of a similar material to the block that has the same modulus of elasticity.

Most stud girdles merely slow the parts down as they are coming out.

Ok, bash away.....
 
So you are saying to go with what? :nonod:
lol, ok, I don't want to dissapoint you, so here's the bashing.
:icon_bs: what do you know about strengthening your engine your former DS-4er! :lmao: your truck had to have an alteration to become the way it is now! how could you possibly know a thing about strengthening these blocks? :jester:

I could say more, but want to keep it all in fun. :D

But no, seriously, I want to know what your opinion is with girdles. Are you saying to use a different material?

Hmmm, on the 6.0 we have sitting at the shop, the girdle is 4" tall and made of cast, I believe. Not sure.
 
Ratman said:
I'm sure I'll take a beating for saying this, -but most steel stud girdles are a waste of time.

Steel is soft and elastic, -cast iron, -not so much. By the time the steel has any opportunity to take any load, the cast iron is already broke.

In order for the piece to truly do any good, it needs to be made of a similar material to the block that has the same modulus of elasticity.

Most stud girdles merely slow the parts down as they are coming out.
Click to expand...

Agreed, they are a rip off, as is my opinion with most things that are on the market today, you can build one yourself, much cheaper, and make it much better!
 
Non Typical said:
So you are saying to go with what? :nonod:
lol, ok, I don't want to dissapoint you, so here's the bashing.
:icon_bs: what do you know about strengthening your engine your former DS-4er! :lmao: your truck had to have an alteration to become the way it is now! how could you possibly know a thing about strengthening these blocks? :jester:

I could say more, but want to keep it all in fun. :D

But no, seriously, I want to know what your opinion is with girdles. Are you saying to use a different material?

Hmmm, on the 6.0 we have sitting at the shop, the girdle is 4" tall and made of cast, I believe. Not sure.
Click to expand...


Don't worry man, you don't have to walk on eggshells with me, -I'm a big boy and can take it. ):h

I am merely stating my opinion based on countless other opinions from experienced engine builders, -myself being one of them.

The biggest "issue" is the dissimilar materials having totally different elasticity characteristics when stress and strain are applied.

My favorite option would be to go with splayed mains on a 599/929 block that was undrilled on the outer holes (kinda like bison is doing on his undrilled 506).

I am certainly NOT claiming to have any answers here, -I'm just running my mouth and spouting opinions based on previous experiences and what I have learned from others.
 
506
599
929

I know these are all different castings from different years. How many castings are there? And what were the changes made with each casting? And what were each casting used for?
 
The casting number is the location the block was made. IE a 506 block may have been cast in Arizona where as the 599 may have been done in Mexico. I'm not saying this is the actually location that they where cast, but rather just using an example. Generally, there are certain places that have been known to cast there blocks slightly thicker or better cast than others.

In the 24Valve (Pre common rail) cummins, the 53 cast block is known for being prone to cracking due to the location the block was being cast doing a poor job.
 
Thanks BigBlueChevy I am aware of the casting locations I was just wondering what are the differences between the different blocks. I know the late model 6.5's had piston squirters as the early blocks didn't. I understand the metalergic properties of each location are different from each other. Thus if one location had a greater percentage of nickel per say, than another would it make them better? And ultimately how many differnet castings are there?
 
The 599s where 91-93 6.2s and 92-93 6.5s
The 929s where 94-96? 6.5s
And the 506 was 96-00 6.5s

The 97 506s had the piston squirters and where notorious for craks in the bottom end.
 
Thanks Matt,
Was 97 the only year of the cracking? Or did they fix this in the later 506 blocks? Did the early 96 year 506 blocks come without squirters?
 
It is confusing to say the least. The H1's suppose to have the bad ones up to 01. I have a 01 H1 and it has the problematic block. Apparently it was luck of the draw. I only have 30K on it but my 99 3500 has 167K. In the H1 world they talk about the poor head water passage circulation as the cause but in the truck world this isn't an issue. I think someone just end up making money off the non educated. My 3500 runs well but I am a hot rodder by nature and more is better. I want to build a 18:1 motor with a marine IP. Turbo/s are still up in the air.
Ratman I agree the cheesy cold roll angle girdle/main supports are weak to say the least. On race engines it is more of a harmonic issue connecting all main caps together keeping the main caps stable. At different rpm's the caps will resonate and add fatique. I think that a plate cut to fit the oil pan mounting 360 degrees and from there tie the main caps to the oil pan rail would help by adding main cap bracing and aide in controlling the harmonics. This method works using non simular metals, it battles block fatigue due to harmonics but doesn't aide in substantial overall block reinfocement that you speak of. Usually the gassers make a girdle that also acts as a windage tray as well but I don't see our motors having a windage problem.
 
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