truck died.. again!!! 80 miles from home, need verification..

[ghost183]

im really not trying to crank up my post count.. i swear ):h i swear lol..

i need verification from the pros.. yah.. thats you guys.. you know who you are ):h :cheers2:

but i need to know which is likely the culprit, theres irony to this story.. but ill tell you later

driving down 95 south today, and while doing so, i noticed erratic behavior from the engine, let me explain..


southbound, empty, just going to give a proposal for a job.. no rush, cruising along at 70, truck was running ok, i wouldnt say at its best.. but ok, its getting the job done considering whats been going on these past few weeks,

as im driving, my engine starts making a horrible noise, almost as if 2 diesel engines were under there, but very load specific, not rpm specific.. let me explain.. the first thing that came to mind when this started was gather as much info to post ):h

so...

the noise starts, i instantly look at my gauges (for any dead needles) and chop the throttle,

using memory they were all as normal

rpm=2200 +/-
temp=170 +/-
voltage = 14
oil = 40-45 psi
mph = 70 +/-

but noise goes away when i chopped , i say to myself (been happening alot lately) let me get off the turnpike before i start diagnosing and taking notes...

so to make this short, when the engine is "just shy of maintaining" i would say, like on a veeeery slight down hill it would make that noise, not on uphills, or engine braking, not under acceleration, not at idle.. just when spinning along with mph, like speeding up to 65 and letting off the throttle a little to match rpm with speed..then letting off 100-200 rpm more, not pulling, or engine braking.. just shy of maintaining, so i figure, trans seperated from engine again,, so i get off exit 7, look under at trans, still bolted tight, no fluids leaking, engine still idling, noisier than an hour ago (at this point) injectors are making a noticeably louder clicking, but idling smoothly.. no shacking.. so i look at trans fluid=full, coolant=good, belt=there and spinning, steering pump=full, everything seems ok so far, so i start the fuel test...

grab my pliers, crack the T valve, slide the pliers into my back pocket, spin it by hand, slowly at first, nothing is coming out, i continue opening it slowly, till im all the way, and soon as it taps out at max open, 15-17 secs after i start spinning, truck surges up 200-300 rpm and dies.. and it hasnt started since

LP is silent, turn key on=silent, crankin=silent, while cranking, i was looking at the oil pressure and it actually climbed, not much, but i couldy see the needle moving up and down in unison with rpm variations during cranking..

is the gauge sender and the OPS one in the same? im assuming its a seperate unit but anyway, also, i jumped the LP using the jumper under the hood.. nothing.. tapped it with the pliers hoping to wake it up, nothing..

ok, heres where i need your advice fellas....

1) lets say the OPS is bad, if i jump the LP directly, it should run? right?

2) but if i do jump it, and nothing, its the LP.. right?

3) also, im assuming by cracking open the T i let air in there, shouldnt a "healthy" IP pull the fuel back up, even if air is present???

4) and if it doesnt, IP is going?

keep in mind my PMD isnt 100%, a new one is coming, but the thought of the PMD buying it?, that would be a 1 in a million coincidence, it dies the instance i crack open the T valve??!?!?! what are the chances of that???????

and oh.. NO codes during all this

irony is, i dont remember hearing the LP for last few days, the other problems have taken my concentration.. but it was always noticeable.. i dunno..

 

[JMJNet]

In a 99, LP can be run by ECM if OPS is bad.

So if you don't even hear the LP purring and no fuel from t-valve, then LP is bad. You said that even after you jump, there is still no fuel.

The bad part about it is if your LP has been bad for a while, then the IP can go bad since it is sucking the fuel from the tank up to a certain point in time.

Bad PMD can cause the same thing also.

 

[ghost183]

the LP was healthy 2 weeks, 120 miles ago.. tested using the pint trick, and past with flying colors, overflowed the WHOLE pint in under 20 secs

now, about that bad part, LP bad for a while? ip on its own? can go bad? what kind of time frame are we talking about.. this IP was dealer exchanged 40k miles ago ( that special policy) so im assuming it has a good ammount of life left, would it feed itself for 10 miles.. or 1000??


bad PMD will cut the LP even when jumped? you lost me on that one, i thougt they were on seperate circuits???

 

[chrisk1500]

If LP is jumped with 12v it should run (unless it is dead - which it is)....

 

[ghost183]

If LP is jumped with 12v it should run (unless it is dead - which it is)....

lol.. i like that.. to the point!!!


i guess this is good news, kinda.. well.. not really.. but atleast my diagnosing was spot on right?

 

[NVW]

Also to answer your question on why it died when you opened the "T" valve, it's easier for the IP to draw air than fuel. Leo

 

[chrisk1500]

As long as your wiring is good, your LP should run.

If the LP does not run when hotwired, the LP is obviously dead.....occams (sp?) razor right?

 

[ghost183]

ya know..


by the time im done getting all these "little" issues out of the way, everything external has been replaced..

my piston/rod is going to jump out and say "hey!! what about me?!?!?"


sheeez... knock on wood!!!

 

[Tookie]

But the lift pump going out should not cause the engine to make noise

 

[Matt Bachand]

Ghost, Crappy fuel can kill LP's also. As a pre-caution i'd replace the fuel filter every month or so for a few months. Also an inline fuel filter/water separater are great investments. On my to-do list too. But nothing extra will get done in these cold winter months.

Also. Shouldn't need pliers to crack your t-valve unless its so worn that you need them to stop it from leaking when closed. Its brass, and the more you stretch it to work, the less life it will have. Perhaps put that on your list of -to replace- items if you need the pliers to stop it from weeping.

Here is an afterthought. Since cracking t-valve when failed LP stalls engine out with no fuel, that must mean whatever water/crud that is sitting in the fuel bowl for sure gets sucked right into the IP?

 

[ghost183]

Ghost, Crappy fuel can kill LP's also. As a pre-caution i'd replace the fuel filter every month or so for a few months. Also an inline fuel filter/water separater are great investments. On my to-do list too. But nothing extra will get done in these cold winter months.

Also. Shouldn't need pliers to crack your t-valve unless its so worn that you need them to stop it from leaking when closed. Its brass, and the more you stretch it to work, the less life it will have. Perhaps put that on your list of -to replace- items if you need the pliers to stop it from weeping.

Here is an afterthought. Since cracking t-valve when failed LP stalls engine out with no fuel, that must mean whatever water/crud that is sitting in the fuel bowl for sure gets sucked right into the IP?

yah, i figured, that fuel STILL hasnt seperated, its been sitting for a month!!! those inline doubles are awesome, i had a set on my boat back in the days, but the price... sheeeez.. $200-$800 for the clear bowl types, ouch.. have to save for that one!! lol

but the fuel in there is spotless now, i check it often and make sure everything is super clean, fuel filter is still white, bowl is spotless, tank was removed and cleaned back then, so im confident the fuel is clean

as far as the T valve, it closes good with just hand tight, but i gave it an twist when i tightened it up last time i checked the fuel quality, again by hand, but loosing it was a chore last night so i just grabbed the pliers, not like i had to strain or anything..

 

[ghost183]

But the lift pump going out should not cause the engine to make noise

well.. heres what i think the noise is, empty injectors, empty chambers..

not enough fuel in there for good combustion maybe? not enough heat? its almost as if the noise is a cold engine, well.. 2 cold engines under there.. but anyway

either way, ill have to get it running to figure out what that noise was, if it comes back... soon as i chopped the throttle it went away

ill update tomorrow or tuesday, im looking for a local AP that has the airtex E3158 for a '93, read that its a better pump than the original 3450

thanks guys

 

[Matt Bachand]

yah, i figured, that fuel STILL hasnt seperated, its been sitting for a month!!!

but the fuel in there is spotless now, i check it often and make sure everything is super clean, fuel filter is still white, bowl is spotless, tank was removed and cleaned back then, so im confident the fuel is clean

as far as the T valve, it closes good with just hand tight, but i gave it an twist when i tightened it up last time i checked the fuel quality, again by hand, but loosing it was a chore last night so i just grabbed the pliers, not like i had to strain or anything..

I forgot you did a thorough flush/drain.

Crud killed my rear LP (for 2nd tank), as I put a working one in to start using that tank again after a year when I replaced my front tank. Caused all sorts of sock/clog problems, and killed that rear LP.

I'm leaving it alone until summertime. I can't stand trying to fix/repair/diagnose fuel problems when its cold out. I have no idea why I didn't replace the tank in the summer, instead I waited till beginning of winter... no idea why.

I doubt the IP can maintain proper injection pressure when it has to suck the fuel up, and then pressureize it.

That is probably why it sounded funny injector wise. IMO anyhow. LP is easy fix. hopefully you can find one today and toss it in.

BTW, in case you don't know, tell the parts guy you have a 93 K3500 6.5 diesel. key word being 93 to get the higheroutput pump for the older mechanical dogs. I just re-read that you knew this.

Can't hurt to doublesay for those who don't.

 

[ghost183]

I doubt the IP can maintain proper injection pressure when it has to suck the fuel up, and then pressureize it.

That is probably why it sounded funny injector wise. IMO anyhow. LP is easy fix. hopefully you can find one today and toss it in.

BTW, in case you don't know, tell the parts guy you have a 93 K3500 6.5 diesel. key word being 93 to get the higheroutput pump for the older mechanical dogs. I just re-read that you knew this.

Can't hurt to doublesay for those who don't.

yah, apparently, no one has these pumps in stock so if i dont find it tomorrow morning, i have to order it, and leave my truck at the tow yard, $45 a day!!! plus they wont let me swap it out on thier property, they're going to charge me $25 to "pull" me out 35 feet, sheeez, this pump is going to wind up costing me hundreds..

and those were my thoughts about the noise.. but time will tell..

matt.. i just saw your in worcester area, i come up there often, ill drop you a PM so we can get together and pull your truck backwards ):h):h:cheers2:

 

[Matt Bachand]

yah, apparently, no one has these pumps in stock so if i dont find it tomorrow morning, i have to order it, and leave my truck at the tow yard, $45 a day!!! plus they wont let me swap it out on thier property, they're going to charge me $25 to "pull" me out 35 feet, sheeez, this pump is going to wind up costing me hundreds..

and those were my thoughts about the noise.. but time will tell..

matt.. i just saw your in worcester area, i come up there often, ill drop you a PM so we can get together and pull your truck backwards ):h):h:cheers2:

Most defanately!! You probably will be able to drive your rig outta the storage lot, fill the filtermanager with diesel and drive her out to where you can work on it.

 

[JMJNet]

What I mean is the symptoms of bad LP which is inability to start can be caused by bad PMD also.

Sorry, English is not my first language.

 

[ak diesel driver]

sticking injector will make a noise similar to a rod going out. mines done it before but went away pretty quickly 5-10 min.

 

[Matt Bachand]

sticking injector will make a noise similar to a rod going out. mines done it before but went away pretty quickly 5-10 min.

Perhaps if the LP is starving for fuel (prooved by symptoms felt) the first stroke may not get enough for a pop, thus the 2nd stroke will pop, but may have an off-balance amount of fuel in it, causing you to hear valve/slap or improper timing of that cylinder, causing it to have 'cold advanced' sound.

 

[ghost183]

Most defanately!! You probably will be able to drive your rig outta the storage lot, fill the filtermanager with diesel and drive her out to where you can work on it.

they wont let me.. i cant do ANY work on it at all.. usual excuses.. insurance wont allow us... etc etc.. meanwhile... in the background i see 6-7 cars that have been parted out, so who are they kidding.. its a scam.. trying to get more $$.. but i got them good.. they wanted to charge me even if another tow truck went in and got it, so after a few calls, just got off the phone with my roadside, and they are state authorized and legally allowed to go into another facility and take a vehicle out.. NO CHARGE.. so i got the upper hand, and they felt like idiots... my roadside had them fax over a itemized bill stating charges due upon vehicle removal tomorrow so they cant even change that!!

hehe

and the best is, i got the pump.. part number "E3158" for all who need it, for a 93 k3500 diesel, turbo, non turbo, 6.5 and 6.2 were all the same number,,,

which reminds me.. ive started another topic asking the pump differances...

 

[ghost183]

heres an update for you guys.. its running again.. and wow, what a differance in output pressure and flow.. i immidiatly saw the differance when i bled the system.. it shotout the fuel from the filter purge valve and showered the hood!!! first time!!! and the T valve output is also impressive..

truck is back to starting instantly again, but its 45* today.. so maybe thats a big help..

but anyway..

that horrible twin diesel noise i had before the truck died........


busted flexplate, and yes, its a definate!! i guess my original inspection when the trans seperated wasnt as good and thorough as i thought.. hairline crack maybe? anyway, took the inspection cover off at a rest stop, and can visible see the flexplate wobbling in sync with the noise.. as if the wobbling wasnt enough.. lol.. so its going under the knife, AGAIN!! on wednesday..

at the same time, valve adjustment, hopefully ill throw in the flowmaster Xover and DP, time will tell that day..