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Total Seal Gapless rings?

I see 6,000 miles on it through those 3 samples. Is the first one from the first test after revuild, or how many miles since the rings went in? Also the metal percentages dropped almost perfectly across the board, so it looks like thats break in.
 
Will L. said:
I see 6,000 miles on it through those 3 samples. Is the first one from the first test after revuild, or how many miles since the rings went in? Also the metal percentages dropped almost perfectly across the board, so it looks like thats break in.
Click to expand...

As posted above like 21K miles and these are the latest samples way after the rebuild. Last couple years have been low miles on it.
 
How in the world did I miss that? Thanks.

Must have had my mind on some upcoming my fireworks.

Anyone have a printout of soot levels with standard rings near that mileage?
 
Update on oil samples. Note Silicone is still going down as the gasket in a tube used on the engine settles down. Soot still = 0. Wear metals are very good in context of other 6.5's I have had sampled. The trend doesn't support the Chrome comment esp with 1K more miles on this sample. Note 3500 miles on this sample and I am going to go longer. Past sample have had the 1 year life vs. miles require a change. Note 15w-50 oil. Yes, there is a missing sample as I didn't do one.

gapless_2016.jpg
 
WW, I just asked Bill Heath today about gapless rings and he said that it was too hard on the cylinder walls, hard to start, etc. You're not finding metal in the oil? - I'm in the middle of an optimizer build and I'm on the fence on these rings. interesting....thanks
 
Corvette502 said:
WW, I just asked Bill Heath today about gapless rings and he said that it was too hard on the cylinder walls, hard to start, etc. You're not finding metal in the oil? - I'm in the middle of an optimizer build and I'm on the fence on these rings. interesting....thanks
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHAHA. He does sell them so he won't endorse them.
There are THOUSANDS of people running gapless rings on all kinds of engines. Everything from motorcycles to 500 ton unit rigs (giant dump trucks). Daily drivers that just want longer engine life to race engines looking for top performance.
There is two draw backs-initial expense, and following a proper break in procedure is more important.

The split of a gapped compression ring creates more wear than a gapless so he is wrong there. Harder starting from what? Slightly better compression once the engine life is half gone? He is talking out the side of his neck- he knows nothing about them.
 
Okay, well don't shoot the messenger. I'm trying to make the best and most informed decisions with this build so "Hopefully" it will live longer. I tend to agree with you about these rings.
 
Corvette502 said:
Okay, well don't shoot the messenger. I'm trying to make the best and most informed decisions with this build so "Hopefully" it will live longer. I tend to agree with you about these rings.
Click to expand...

We are attempting to tell you that you are asking the wrong fella questions about things he doesn't sell.... if we were shooting at the messenger we wouldn't be answering you the way we are... we all have herd what heath has to say, NOBODY makes or sells anything worth a crap except him.... is that direct enough for ya..

Spend the 10$ per ring and send them to AZ, it's not going to kill your motor...
 
Haha...I'm a GC. I can promise you're not going to hurt my feelings. I deal with animals all day every day. I'm just trying to get the honest truth. I'm sold on the gapless rings (or cant seem to find a real reason NOT to use them) I agree with you guys about Bill. I think he's a great guy, but wrong guy to ask unless you want a bias answer.
 
Don't ask him about the ATT... Don't get me wrong he has some good info about cooling systems, but, pick and choose what you use from him.

The install miles were 190,665. This means they have 30,442 rode hard and put away wet miles on them. All I did was deglaze the cylinders before throwing them on. Extreme summer heat towing extreme grades. I have to remove the CDR to see any blowby as of today.

Seriously I haven't broken them and not for a lack of trying.

Give you an idea of what my other 6.5 looked like for an oil sample here is conventional rings with oil pushed to failure by going out of grade at 3000 miles and on it's way out at 1900 miles.

Yes, I ruin engine oil. :jawdrop:

conventional_limits.jpg

conventional_limits2.jpg
 
Here is nearly 5000 miles on oil changes and the soot is just starting to show up in the oil. I have literally doubled the miles I can get out of an oil change with gapless rings. Mind you this is still severe driving conditions. By the wear metals maybe they have finally broken in... Note the "sample" to see if I could run the oil longer at 221K miles. 36,357 total miles on the gapless rings since install.

5K_oil_samples.jpg
 
Wow, has it really been that long? 2011 I put Gapless rings in: 38,000 miles ago. The used heads were from a worn out 6.5 engine and I did not clean them very much. If you have taken apart a 6.2 or 6.5 esp with EGR you know how soot/sludge coated things get esp the pushrods. In these pictures you can see how the oil has "cleaned" the heads rather than soot coat them like the worn 6.5 non-EGR engine did. I am currently tearing down the engine due to valve failure(s).

head_cover.jpg

head.jpg
 
So considering the number of people doing rebuilds throughout this thread, what quality rings are people using these days and where is your source?
I've been looking for mahle rings and am finding them out of stock.
 
Total Seal direct. Leroy Diesel also sells gapless rings - aka rings sent to Total Seal for the gapless to be machined in. So get any rings you want and send them in for $90 as I recall.

The ring set discussed here in this engine is direct from Total Seal via Jegs. 2011 was before vendors carried them.

Leory's gapless ring set worked well in the 1992 project.
 
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