Tips on buying a used engine (inspired by the custom builds)

[Ratman]

You guys are the best. I think Slim said it best, -we're all in good company here, -and the comment that Matt made about "absorbing" everything the old-timers have to say, -I couldn't agree more. I don't think anyone here is worried about offending anyone, -I think we're all in good company. What's cool about it, -is that everyone has experiences that we can all draw from, -new guys included.

I was lucky, -I was around lots of old-timers, -guys that were self-taught and had LOTS of hands-on experience. Every Saturday morning I would ride my bike down the street to my neighbor's house to help him build engines, chassis, and drag cars. He was also a big diesel-nut being a retired logger and heavy equipment guy. While other kids were watching Saturday morning cartoons, I was learning how to build tube-chassis jigs, and blueprint engines. He built race cars after retiring, -the guy was simply amazing, -he knew how to do it all.

Sometimes we wouldn't get anything done in the shop, because he would go off on a "book tangent", -trying to find a chapter in a hydraulic book, -or a geometry book so that I would better understand why we were doing things a certain way, -and why it was so important to be nuts-on on some stuff, -but not sweat other stuff. He would take the time to explain things to me, drawing diagrams on the concrete floor with a sharpie, -and sometimes taking a trip to the machine shop in the Camino to show me how things were done. He had so much stuff done by this machinist, -he could come and go as he pleased, -he was on a first name basis with all the guys in the shop.

A good analogy would be like throwing a dry sponge into a bucket of water, -and I was the sponge.

I built my first engine for my first car before I even had my drivers license, -I was 13 years old, -thanks to everything I learned from the "old man".

One might say I was the kid that George never had, -he actually did have a son, but his son was handicapped and he was very limited to what he could do. I did spend a lot of time with the "old man's" son working with him, -and I know that George appreciated that. My real Dad left when I was 6 years old, -so George was a big father-figure to me. The time that he and I spent working together was priceless. I took a day off of school to see a car that he and I built make it's first trip down the 1/8 mile. It was an all steel 55 Chev with a 355 roller motor and a powerglide trans. The car also had a 4-link panhard rear with 4.88's. The car ran a 6.96 in the 1/8 with no power adders. The tech guys told the owner to put it back on the trailer until he got a cage in it.

George and I just smiled and nodded at each other.

The moral is, -listen and learn. I learn something new every day.

The day when you stop listening and learning is the day that you may as well throw in the towel.

 

[Ratman]

Dang and I figured on the internet nobody would ever find out I was crazy, did my internet address give away the hospital name???? :rofl:

At least I am in good company, here. Anyone else want to come clean about being institutionalized:arf::lol:

Slim, -I was actually referring to me, -not you!

BUT, -since you came clean..........:biggrin5:

 

[Slim Shady]

Slim, -I was actually referring to me, -not you!

BUT, -since you came clean..........:biggrin5:

DANG, I should have kept my mouth shut, now you all know. You guys have to be cool the doctors here at the crazy farm will take away my internet rights. :confused5:

I still have breakfast with Paul, I started with him when I was just 18, over thirty years ago now, worked with him on and off for the last 28. He retired and I left the professional mechanics business after a dealership stent of 10 years and some fleet shops. When I worked on my first 36 Packard and couldn't get the water pump to stop leaking from the seal, guess who I called. YEP and he knew how to fix it "dummy turn the packing nut out one turn then tighten it one and a half turn to stop the leak". He is 80 years old now and I cherish his knowledge still. He showed me how to repair things not just replace parts. THAT was worth more than any money I could pay to learn.

I have done many old tractor motors for guys and some old motors for people that couldn't be bought or replaced, welded cranks blocks and fixed heads with peening rod, did my 6.5 heads with the lock and stitch repair, right across the valve seat, the machinist I took it to asked me if I wanted to repair heads for him, nope I said don't have the time. Said he had heard about the repairs the old guys used to do just never had seen it done. Still going strong and no coolant leaks, Paul approved the repair and his approval is all that ever mattered to me. So RATMAN I know where you are coming from, not many people get that kind of edumacation.:iagree:

 

[MBBOB]

Gentlemen

I was slightly flamed by my statement to buy "new", I am also a man of experience when it come to engine building. I spent 15 years building Cat, Mack, Cummins and Detroit engines. I also played in the BB SB Chevy drag wars and even wrenched on a top fuel car.I completely agree with the "seasoned parts" theory and have used many seasoned part in the past. The problem I have is the 6.5 does not season well, it cracks, sometime for no apparent reason ( I know from experience).

I am curious about what you guys are spending to rebuild a 6.5? With the proper machine work and good parts I don't see how you get it under $3,500 not including the hours spent finding good parts. Then add $100 each for a new balancer and pulley, plus any other misc. parts that should be replaced such as rockers and buttons etc. Please enlighten me.

Jody and I compared notes for a month before deciding a new longblock was the way for us. To me it seemed once you get to the $4k mark the risk outweighs the reward. Once again, just my opinion not looking to start a battle.

 

[chrisk1500]

MBBOB - you made the same move I would. You get a damn good block, a good rotating assembly and a warranty for a decent price.

Sometimes the little extra $$$ spent is worth not having the worry hanging over your head...

Now I can't say I have built thousands of engines over my thousands of years on Earth, but I can say that I have rebuilt a number of SBCs and have had a few 6.5s torn down to the bare bones...I have torn apart quite a few IH tractor engines as well (451 and 504s)....far from a machinist/engine rebuilder but learned a lot from the school of hard knocks...

FWIW - a few years ago we had to get a 6.5 rebuilt when an oil cooler line let go. IIRC the cost of the rebuild on the 506 *seasoned* block was only about $1000 cheaper than a new AMG longblock....the *seasoned* block cracked about 1 year later....should have got the AMG with the warranty....

 

[Slim Shady]

Gentlemen

I was slightly flamed by my statement to buy "new", I am also a man of experience when it come to engine building. I spent 15 years building Cat, Mack, Cummins and Detroit engines. I also played in the BB SB Chevy drag wars and even wrenched on a top fuel car.I completely agree with the "seasoned parts" theory and have used many seasoned part in the past. The problem I have is the 6.5 does not season well, it cracks, sometime for no apparent reason ( I know from experience).

I am curious about what you guys are spending to rebuild a 6.5? With the proper machine work and good parts I don't see how you get it under $3,500 not including the hours spent finding good parts. Then add $100 each for a new balancer and pulley, plus any other misc. parts that should be replaced such as rockers and buttons etc. Please enlighten me.

Jody and I compared notes for a month before deciding a new longblock was the way for us. To me it seemed once you get to the $4k mark the risk outweighs the reward. Once again, just my opinion not looking to start a battle.

I picked up a few spare blocks for nothing that is how I saved money. Everybody wants a 6.5 block when there are plenty of 6.2 blocks out there with a little better material list than some of the 6.5 blocks. Now lets kill this, no argument on what you want to do or how you want to spend your money, your business, some of us have friends that do machine work and other's that save us money other places. It is personal preference and like arguing religion, neither side is going to convince the other to the contrary. So lets agree to disagree, ok?

 

[bison]

Now seeing you guys braggin about the hands on education yall had,i my as well pitch in a bit too.

I grew up on a dairyfarm in europe,back in the 50's ,only machinery on the place was a wheelbarrow and milking pail ,was called out of bed at 5 in the morning to pull tits before 7 yrs old. but then allready had a keen interest in mechanical stuff.when i was 10 i bought a norton 500cc motorcycle for 5 bucks, was all in bits and pieces.i put that thing together all by my self based on pictures,often by the light of a oillamp as there was no power yet. Was i ever proud when it finally fired up,using both feet on the kickstarter.
bought a stuck allis chalmers B when i was 13,tore that apart allmost till the last bolt ,and put it all back together again with same head gasket , made new gaskets where needed out of sheets of carton,and no new parts save the oilfilter.we used that old B on the farm for many years after.started working as the only mechanic on a farm custom outfit at 17, the owner was a very handy fella and from him i learned to do things properly. welding and machining skills where aquired there as well,as all repair and fabricating was done in his shop save crank and valve grinding.Parts where fixed there and not replaced like nowadays is the norm. i wanted to quit there many a time as he was a hard fellow to please.wich i finally did after 6 yrs, i went on and drove truck ,operated trackhoe's and cats but somehow always ended up in their shop fixing and rebuilding.then i got job as machinist and mechanic in a agr dealership,there all repairs where done in house as well,incl fabricating,welding and machining.I learned a hell of a lot there as well from an old blacksmith,he had a way with steel i have'nt seen since, But my heart was allways in farming and did that over the yrs as well before and after job hrs.

After immigrating to Canada in 1980,the same patern developed ,working for various farms and construction outfits, i always ended up fixing their machinery. I figured in the end if i have to fix equipment and such for the rest of my life,i may as well fix my own.That and the want to farm lead me to buy my ranch and own equipment. But somehow the neighbors found out, and now i am still repairing trucks ,tractors and whatever else rolls around for other people.being 40 km from nearest town does'nt seem to deter them.

somehow this turned into a short lifestory!!

 

[Ratman]

Gentlemen

I was slightly flamed by my statement to buy "new", I am also a man of experience when it come to engine building. I spent 15 years building Cat, Mack, Cummins and Detroit engines. I also played in the BB SB Chevy drag wars and even wrenched on a top fuel car.I completely agree with the "seasoned parts" theory and have used many seasoned part in the past. The problem I have is the 6.5 does not season well, it cracks, sometime for no apparent reason ( I know from experience).

I am curious about what you guys are spending to rebuild a 6.5? With the proper machine work and good parts I don't see how you get it under $3,500 not including the hours spent finding good parts. Then add $100 each for a new balancer and pulley, plus any other misc. parts that should be replaced such as rockers and buttons etc. Please enlighten me.

Jody and I compared notes for a month before deciding a new longblock was the way for us. To me it seemed once you get to the $4k mark the risk outweighs the reward. Once again, just my opinion not looking to start a battle.

Your point is very well taken. I don't think anyone was intentionally trying to flame ya.

I certainly wouldn't have anything bad to say about a new AMG long block sitting in my truck right now.

However, I am pretty stubborn when it comes to doing things myself, -warranty or not. Like several other individuals on here, I can tend to be very passionate about putting my own stuff together, -there's something about seeing it with your own eyes, -and doing it yourself, -every step of the way.

To do it cost effectively on your own however, rounding up all the good parts to do it can take a while, -and be quite exhausting. In addition to that, -with your own work, -you're on your own as far as warranty goes! Additionally, if you aren't careful, costs can quickly spiral, -landing you that much closer to the new stuff.

I see benefits on both sides for sure.

 

[Slim Shady]

Alright are we going to get into life stories???? I walked to school 20 miles in the snow five feet deep and did it with no winter boots and well you know how it goes. I was not bragging nor was I telling anybody how to do anything, that is not my right. I just like to build my own stuff always have. I never trusted anyone else to fix what I could do myself. It is not my intent to flame anyone, heck is this our first Diesel Towing Resources disagreement?, I think we need to celebrate, we have arrived, say good by to the place for sure now. We have progressed.

 

[MBBOB]

Yea Slim, but was your walk to school uphill both ways like mine was):h):h

Nothing but love hereuke:

 

[3bals]

Is that the school of hard knocks? If so, I'm still enrolled there and just learned something new "again" the other day. :toetap05:

 

[Primer]

Yea Slim, but was your walk to school uphill both ways like mine was):h):h

Nothing but love hereuke:

One of my family members always used to scoff at kids complaining about walking all the way across town to go to school. When she was a kid, she walked for 10 years and never complained.




She didn't mention(or more likely didn't realize) that her childhood town is only a few hundred yards wide!