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The ATT is on! And I blew an injector on the way home? OR, My weekend with Leroy :)

Sentinelist

Active Member
Messages
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Location
North Texas
'Tis true. After more than a few months, the ATT is finally off of my workbench collecting dust and "holy crap, what is that going into?" remarks all year, and mounted on the TerraShuttle! I'm pretty happy.

There's much to go over, so I will refrain from writing a long story here and will resort to a roughly chronological bulletpoint list... that will pretty much be a long story anyway. You'll recall I had previously: given up hope on installing the ATT myself earlier this summer once got halfway in and discovered the unforeseen challenges of drilling seized bolts/cutting the upper intake/probably having to take off and replace an exhaust manifold/finding an oil drain line solution. This had me throwing in the towel on my own after I was expecting a bolt-on day's job and don't have time for much else. But I was talked out of eBay and logically back into the task by you good folks, and made plans with Leroy to pay him a visit as our schedules allowed 'this fall' after he graciously made some time for me. We now pick up the action there from last Thursday! :D

- Ebola did not kill me or anyone within at least 3 degrees of separation or relatable proximity, so an almost scuttling/delay of the plans was alleviated.
- Due to family, work, other projects, life, death and a host of other reasons this year, I have still not 'camped' legitimately in my camper outside of my driveway away from home facilities.
- I realized Leroy's driveway would be my first 'camping' trip with it, depending on all self-contained systems aboard!
- I finally figured out how to use its onboard lavatory, wastewater, and freshwater systems late Friday night... only to discover after filling it up (with water!) that the pump was shot. DRAIN.
- (Leroy and Mrs. Leroy kindly lent me their guest lavatory instead. RELIEF.)
- I loaded up the ATT and its effects, a backup exhaust manifold I bought from Big T, backup/emergency tools, and a few nights worth of stuff in case I stranded myself.
- I departed the Dallas metroplex at Saturday morning at 9:00am and arrived at Leroy's place in the Houston area at 2:30pm. I dodged a bad interstate shutdown by off-roading to an access road.
- The 6.5 cools down remarkably well with the hood up! It was a concern I had barreling through traffic, but luckily we still got to assessing needs and wrenching soon after I arrived.
- I had assumed the Diamond Eye exhaust was installed by an exhaust shop only... and purposefully left it at home. Leroy said he was planning to install in an hour at the end. ARGH! Shot self in foot.
- While I helped here and there, I let the master figure out the best practices. I think he even devised a new ATT oil return line solution that could be patent pending by now which I have the prototype of...
- We discovered the ATT install instructions leave some steps to be desired, like how to deal with said oil return creating the need for a custom fab job, and he's going to talk to the guy about that.
- He found a fitting needed for the braided oil intake line to adapt to the block in 5 seconds at Lowe's. Fastest visit ever. It's a good idea to get a replacement genuine GM braided line for this install as I did.
- We discovered that metal studs will collapse or crumble in on themselves when heavily drilled out as the inner mass supporting the threads is removed. Luckily only one had to be drilled out.
- The GM-3 came out without the fears I had manifested myself, so we ended up not needing the manifold, Big T! But thanks for letting me buy it off you- I slept better after having received it.
- A co-worker of mine is working on a random Dodge Dakota 5.7 'turbo' project. He's buying my GM-3 (hey, no shaft play, still works) for $100. Nice.
- I realized this guy would also need that spare exhaust manifold on the turbo it's designed for, as an adaptor he could cut/weld onto his truck, and advised he buy it too. Another $50 recouped.
- The ATT went on well enough thanks to Leroy's craftsmanship that I decided against the intake manifold adaptor.
- However, if you are installing an ATT yourself, it will make your life a lot easier, and the job faster, as far as the alignment goes with the turbo outlet and less custom plumbing to make the route.
- Leroy's a proper mechanic who won't take chances of missing something after it gets dark. So we called it a night, watched Extreme Smugglers on TV, then finished early the next morning.
- The ATT is a notable performer even with the stock exhaust and airbox. The de-woosh when you lift off the throttle is really nice. I can't wait to feel this thing go once I get the exhaust and K47 airbox on.
- He also recommended I ask around, and here, on turning up the fuel screw on my DB2. I'll search for that soon, but suggestions are welcome.
- After a successful test drive, I sent him a worthwhile labor total via PayPal on my iPhone from his driveway- well worth it for his time, effort and advice. I know my truck even better now.
- You need to check out the LubeCheck (sp?) device he's about to start carrying. Drip a few drops of your oil onto this little device, turn it on, and it'll test it on a scale of 1-10 and tell you if an oil change is needed or not. I bought one.

- On the way home, things were working so well, I may have run the truck too hard. I kept the cruise on at the speed limit (70-75mph) and went 80mph at times, laughing as I passed nearly anything I pleased, though not burying the tach. But I developed a hard 'clacking' sound by the time I arrived home and got the engine down to idling speeds. Slightly white smoky out the tailpipe as well, but not terrible. Did I blow an injector or is this a rod? I've been advised to start by replacing the injectors, and I'll be going with a set of Bosch's if so. Take a look and listen please. Do you agree? The engine otherwise still has full power on the highway and did not overheat- it's actually running a touch cooler now with the ATT. Turbo is whooshing away just fine despite it being the last thing that changed- this is coming from the engine itself. The oil is also still topped up. Surely, if it was anything worse than an injector, it would be running a lot more poorly, if at all? :nonod:

Other good stuff:

- My truck is "a lot faster" than his (even with the camper on). He said so himself.
- Leroy has spent enough at his local AutoZone to probably buy out the store's inventory twice over. Everyone there knows him and likes him as a result.
- Beyond his 6.5 rigs, Leroy has several other intriguing projects in various stages of progress around his garage, shop and driveway. The Sonoma TDi is going to be very interesting. Ask him about the Fiero!
- I got an authorized behind-the-scenes tour of LeroyDiesel.com to see the business we love in action. It was cool to see the inventory on his site across some shelves carefully organized and boxes on the ready for shipping. I could have filled my hands with turbo boost bolts and cackled like a maniac but I didn't. Actually there's not quite that many- supplies are limited so get yours now.
- Leroy's dog is one of the best I've ever met and I now want one like him. The cat is cool too.
- Mrs. Leroy makes a wonderful beef tips on rice with brown sauce dish meal that I could eat all week. :agreed: I wasn't expecting dinner! They're both very hospitable.
- Leroy will pick up your breakfast tab at a great homestyle restaurant as a loan against your work invoice if you forget your wallet in your camper.
- With a palm tree next to the driveway and the noise of a highway at just the right distance away to sound like a calm river (soothing to sleep to in a camper with a vent open), and no kids screaming, you'll feel like you're on vacation there.
- Leroy's just a good guy, served our country, has a lot of 6.5 passion and general DIY mechanic experience, and you need to buy your stuff from him. I'll update my sig with his goods I have shortly!

Pics or it didn't happen? Alright alright. Thanks once again, Leroy. I'll be back for a P400 in a couple years I hope. :thumbsup:

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Try cracking the injector lines open 1 at a time and see if you can isolate the noise to a certain cylinder. I would say you have an injector problem regardless from how it started up, but it does sound like a dieseling knock to me from an injector hung open.
 
Cool to see the progress, sorry to hear about the problems on the way home. I agree about the injector sound and the white smoke is indicative of unburned fuel. Starting engine and crack the fuel injector nuts one at a time to determine which cylinder it is. Swap that injector with a different cylinder and make sure the sound follows the injector. This is to verify it is the injector before you spend money on a whole new set. I would not drive the truck unnecessarily, a bad injector can damage the piston. Although, if you're looking for a good excuse to get that P 400 from Leroy...

If you can verify which injector is bad, using the same socket that you remove the injector from the engine with put the injector body on the flat spots in a vice and use that socket or wrench to disassemble the injector and try a simple cleaning. Be careful of the injector tip pintle. That tiny little needle shaped tip has a lot to do with a good spray pattern, you might find that it is completely plugged up with carbon or burned away and that could be the problem with that injector.

If you do not find injector problem before getting frustrated and blaming a rod, make sure it is not a broken flywheel. I would never admit to having pulled an engine to have a cracked flywheel but some of my friends all have a story about me doing that for some silly reason... At least I didn't buy any parts until I saw the actual problem.

Do not mess with the fuel screw until you have fixed this problem. I would install the new exhaust before turning up the fuel screw.
 
Thanks, guys. Btw, that video was from a cold start, and my 2nd cold start to shoot a shorter video to upload- the Glow Plugs lamp went off in time before, jumped the gun the 2nd time around.

It looks like the turbo has to come right back out for the injectors (will be doable this time- new bolts with anti-seize!), so I may just plunk down for a new set and be done with it here at 280k miles. I didn't realize these had to be replaced every 100k, am sure they were at least once before, but not sure when. This will just be another step to getting this thing as reliable as it can be until I can afford a P400 swap. But yes, the truck is staying down in the meantime- it is tertiary in my personal vehicle fleet, so I don't mind it staying down for weeks, though I always want to have it ready for anything. Current plans in this order:

- Replace injectors with new BOSCH units, non-marine, nothing fancy
- Install a K47 airbox and dry element
- Install DiamondEye exhaust at a local shop with a new band clamp (I need to get this part number)
- Get a comfortable new baseline with the truck for awhile, then look into turning up the IP screw only enough to make sure it's optimal with the new upgrades
- Go somewhere more challenging than various Texas driveways with my family, perhaps before winter; anything I can do to make it more dependable before buckling them all in is a BIG plus

I'm wondering if I should do the glow plugs while I'm at it, especially while the turbo is off. Also know they've been done before, but no idea when. No records. Just hear-say from the PO a year ago. Hell, anything else? Valve cover gaskets? Anything else easy to get at in the process? I know the DB2 was rebuilt by SSD a few years ago FWIW, and it's good. Though I've done my searching on here (another thanks, Leroy) and will be steering clear of that outfit.
 
Sounds like you all had a good time. Thanks for the pictures too. If you don't know the age of the injectors then swapping them out is a good idea. Still, you ought to at least try to isolate the injector as described if for no other reason than to learn something first hand and second, to confirm it is only the injector and not something else as has been pointed out. With the turbo out and the ability to shove the down pipe out of the way, you'll be able to get those Glow Plugs swapped out much easier. Might want to consider the condition of the GP harness as well...hint...Raceday's harness is top notch.

I'm betting that if you take your time and exercise a little more self confidence, you could do the Exhaust Swap yourself. Only issue others have reported with DE is one of the hangers doesn't line up but I haven't heard that complaint in a while.

Again, congratulations and if you're looking for a great place to get away to camp with the family before Christmas, try out the Moab area. Right now they are in the off-season so crowds are pretty much gone.

Best of luck.
 
It was great to meet you. I have fun with this stuff and though I don't call myself a mechanic I can work on these things pretty good. (I'll leave the true mechanic title to Ferminator) As long as the weather is not 95* and 95% humid I'll help someone wrench on their truck.
Other than having to drill out the one stud it went pretty smooth and luckily it was the easy one the only one you could even get a drill on.
Yes his truck is faster than mine, but in defence he has 4:10s and mine are 3:42 with stock everything except exhaust and DB2.

Something simple to check first, the Crank Pulley and Harmonic Balancer assembly?
I don't think its the HB, but the thought did cross my mind also, so yeah take a look at it. Any sign that it may be bad (or original) and I'd replace it. With 280K miles on your rig its about time to show it some love.

Your welcome anytime as long as you dont have Ebola.
 
@ Sentinelist – Man you got Murphy chasing you I think! I was excited to hear about your upgrades, wasn’t anticipating reports of a loud metallic engine knock.:nonod: But if that engine's got 280K-miles on it, it’s already served very well for a 6.5L! Hoping you find it’s just a leaky injector! From the vid it sounds a little too loud to be a cracked flexplate – but you never know I’ve seen exhaust leak that sounded like bearings going south before!

Things I’d check:
1. Verify the basics: Good oil pressure, smell the exhaust for the sickly sweet smell of coolant death (accompanied by quick pressurization of the rad hoses upon start up), that the starter-motor isn’t trying to depart from the block, the serpentine tensioner hasn’t gone bad, the crank Damper/Pulley Damper hasn’t gone bad, also keep in mind weird things like a glowplug tip separating and becoming lodge into the top of a piston, a rocker arm retaining button sheared off allowing the rocker to go free range, etc.
2. Go to Harbor Freight (AKA China tool mart) and get yourself a cheapo stethoscope with a 6”+ metal tube on the end. These are usually in the automotive section. With this you might be able to easily track which cyl is the issue by probing the injector/tube interface and listen for the knock.
3. Pull off the “Inspection Plate” off the trans bellhousing, look up at the flexplate to crankshaft bolt interface. Look for cracks in the flexplate, and/or MIA bolts.

I’m rooting for ya, but from that vid it really sounds like a big-end rod bearing has hit the fan.

As far as a 6.2/6.5 has to be ok because it’s still running, nope! These are ID diesels that normally combust with enough violence to quickly destroy a normal gas engine like say a SBC. I’ve seen my own sounding normal with an ungodly blown H/G – like bad enough that I’m surprised it didn’t hydro-lock while running! I’ve seen vids of em running with the crank sheared in two pieces in the middle, and other with multiple destroyed rockers & pushrods. Quite frankly the GM’s 6.2/6.5, Ford’s 6.9/7.3 IDI’s have to be on death’s doorstep before they sound any worse than normal! My buddies ’93 IDI 7.3 sounded like it was digesting ¾” gravel every cold start for years (to the point were I wanted to stand back a little:eek5:), and he sold to someone else years latter still running with 300+K miles.
 
Agree with Paveltolz to change the GP's and get Raceday's harness. One-upping and recommending to complete the package with a new GP relay. But I'd only do it as part of replacing the injectors, otherwise if the injectors are (or are going) bad and stay in the engine, they can / will trash the new GP's.

Oh, and if you think you need it, Leroy sells a fancy GP removal tool :hihi:
 
No not Murphy's law, it's more like Captain Ron.

These engines run just fine on 5, 6, or 7 of 8. Little missing piston skirt and 4 holes in the cylinder, bent valves, copper showing bearings... How some of my stuff was still running before required teardown is impressive. Some reason my friends all ask me if I have all worm clamps accounted for when I am done working on stuff. Post #8 shows you the real fire you are playing with on injectors and what happens when one fails. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?39865-6-5-carnage

:skep: I suggest a P400 or other "expensive" 6.5 replacement isn't much fun. For example I can push the limits on a $1500 surplus 6.2 lonblock and grenade it without undue $pain$. Hauling a ton of rock, going to the dump, channel 9 on the CB as cell service is long gone where we tow trailers to... Yes there are some clear lines in the sand of what the 6.5 limits are and yes there are some exciting phone calls from the oil lab when I have completely ruined engine oil...
 
Connecting rod bearing has left the building. They'll still carry decent oil pressure with two bearings gone, ask me how I know..
 
Now that I can play the vids... With the way the noise comes and goes I would rule out a foreign object in the engine.

I agree with the first few posts of diesel knock.

I would finish checking injectors. Look in the precup at glow plugs as you pull them as the bad injector likely is damaging them. The thud on shutdown I ignore as my exhaust likes to hit the frame - you clearly have a problem with the running noise. If the exhaust isn't hitting it is another clue.

Have you looked at the damper? Have you looked at the serpentine belt crank pulley? They both have rubber that can fail. Avoid Dorman as they don't last.

Next I would drop the rock guard, converter cover, and inspect the flexplate. Then as suggested check for a busted crank: rotate the engine from the alternator pulley while a helper is watching the damper and flywheel.

The fellow on the other forum highly overrates the bottom end of the GM 6.x cast blocks. They can crack the main webs clean out. I can't say these engines don't wear out, but, they wear and crack out. Hard to find one that you can rebuild.

On a budget if you have to pull the engine I suggest a surplus 6.2, some gapless rings. Pull and replace the engine can be done for less than $2000 in parts. So don't let worst case scare you. Yes you can spend a lot more, but, you don't have to.

Most off all take her out and enjoy it often IE drop the camper and take it to work all week. This way you will be able to address most issues before a trip. You are driving a "classic" at this point and that gets you two things: 1) Respect and people talking to you about about old diesels classics 2) It's always Fing something from a little thing to engine replacement. It can be discouraging, but, a good excuse to always have black oily tools in the man cave... You have a good radio in the man cave yet? :hihi:

The bright side is these engine are cheap as well as parts. Price a Cummins Vibration damper that starts at $350 up to $550 for factory parts and $419 on up for aftermarket. The 6.5 damper is 2 parts at $100 each from the GM dealer wholesale.

Sorry for the trouble, but, you know what we mean by the better turbo now at least.
 
Excellent. I'll get back with you guys this weekend when I can refocus. Been a bit woozy and happily distracted the past 24 hrs with a few little words: it's a girl. :eek: Too much going on around here. I may be retreating to my man cave more often, which yes, has a bangin' stereo.

Didn't want to leave ya'll hanging, more info shortly.
 
Congratulations of the new addition. Take a lot of time off from all unimportant aspects of your life to hold and cradle that little one. You won't be sorry for the delays to projects as you two build a lasting relationship.
 
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