Sudden death.....with codes

[Yachtcare]

Did a fairly light duty tow to tallahassee yesterday, roughly 450 miles one way.

Today, return trip, empty. Got to within 50 miles of home.

70 mph in mid lane change(to right, thankfully) a bad stumble, and stall.

SES light stays on constant. Truck starts, but seems to be in limp mode, and will stall out again after about 150-300 feet. After an hour of this to get off the highway and into a parking lot, check codes......

17,18,19,35,43,54,68,78

78 makes no sense since I have a homemade TM installed.

Could 68 be caused by pushing it in limp mode? I was trying to get out of everyone's way.

The rest would seem to indicate the IP is toast.

I cleared codes, the 17 came back immediatly. The rest came back(except the 68) as soon as I started it. Didnt put it in gear.

Any suggestions what else to diagnose?

Truck will still start, hard, and will run, slow, but not far. At least I was able to get it into the shop after it was towed back here.

Help?

 

[JiFaire]

17 came back without starting? Sounds like either a fried PMD (it does happen) or a harness short... do you still have the OS filter on?

 

[NVW]

78 and maybe 68 are results of the engine stalling with power still to the pcm, ie: low boost and slipping tranny. When my pmd was going bad I would get code 78 after a stall.

The rest could be IP. How is fuel flow from LP? Fuel pressure? Are you using any fuel additives?

 

[Yachtcare]

17 came back without starting? Sounds like either a fried PMD (it does happen) or a harness short... do you still have the OS filter on?

Yes, it came back without the start. Had a strong arc when reattaching ground cable.

No OS filter.

 

[JiFaire]

Did you scribe your OS when you bumped it (so you could put it back)? That 17 is usually associated with an OS fault, and can cascade into several others. Normally, we recommend running lubricity additives - it seems to fix a lot of 17s, but yours is kinda sudden...

Is your PMD harness OK? No shorts anywhere in the OS harness or PMD harness?

 

[Yachtcare]

78 and maybe 68 are results of the engine stalling with power still to the pcm, ie: low boost and slipping tranny. When my pmd was going bad I would get code 78 after a stall.

The rest could be IP. How is fuel flow from LP? Fuel pressure? Are you using any fuel additives?

Makes sense on the codes.

Literally just got the thing into the shop about an hour ago so will get to diagnosing tomorrow morn. LP will be first to get checked, but it isnt very old, think I installed it back in June.

I had been using the wal mart TCW3 but was reading things about the blue die causing troubles with the OS. Still use a small amout, and alternate between white jug Diesel Power, and that new Prestone stuff, seems to add a bit of power. Every tank gets something.

 

[Yachtcare]

Did you scribe your OS when you bumped it (so you could put it back)? That 17 is usually associated with an OS fault, and can cascade into several others. Normally, we recommend running lubricity additives - it seems to fix a lot of 17s, but yours is kinda sudden...

Is your PMD harness OK? No shorts anywhere in the OS harness or PMD harness?

I had an issue with the(PMD) harness over a year ago, come to think of it. Acted similar, but it would just die. And start again without a limp mode. But it certainly bears checking.

 

[NVW]

Another free thing worth checking would be grounds, especially the pass. back side of the intake manifold. That is where the ground to the pcm is IIRC.

 

[WarWagon]

Computers do weird things when the voltage to them is low or the outputs are shorted. Like dump a bunch of false codes.

I would check grounds and battery cables. Look at the ECM reported voltage as well. Possible ign switch going out. Otherwise a harness short or shorted PMD or other sensor can do this to you. You have checked every fuse and tugged on the fusible links?

In fact look for a common ground for all of these circuits or a common +5v reference signal like the TPS gets. (old school tps.) A short can take several things out at once. Same with a bad ground. The transmission codes from stalling you should ignore - just the current codes after starting.

Last test one of these sensors and suspect the ECM if the sensor voltages and wiring is ok.

 

[Yachtcare]

One of the first things I always do is check grounds. You guys, have made me so anal about the grounds, I even added a few when I relocated the pass side battery.

I have had an intermittent problem with the starter not engaging when I hit the key> Figured it was just a solenoid going bad on the recent AZ starter replacement. maybe the ign switch needs closer attention.

My most recent addition to the truck was a 700 watt inverter to run my laptop while underway. Yesterday and today are first time using it. Dont know if that could be screwing with voltage to ECM? Hot lead direct from battery, Ground to body at pass side seat bolt. Both cables 2 AWG as specified in install instructions.

 

[Veg_Out]

Prepare for an IP change is my advice. If you are lucky, an easy fix between all the groundings etc/. Do you know how far your IP has gone?

 

[Yachtcare]

Pretty sure I've found the problem.......

It speaks to the importance of not breaking those little clips off of the connection ends of harnesses.

OS harness had broken clip, apparently over time it vibrated apart and was laying in the valley. Of course it wasnt the first thing I checked.......

Plugged back in and truck fired up without codes. Havent driven yet, but no issues idling for last half hour, will take it for a spin and see what happens.......

 

[JiFaire]

I win! Do I get a prize?

Good for you... hopefully that's the extent of it!

 

[WarWagon]

Use some zip ties to hold the connection toghether.

 

[Yachtcare]

I win! Do I get a prize?

Yes. My undying gratitude, that and a $1.89 should get ya a cup of coffee at any Denny's:thumbsup:

Just went for a long drive, all seems well, so I guess I can put this issue in the archives.

Alot of aggravation over a silly little thing, but it still gives some peace of mind having checked out the other things as well.

Thanks to all. It's times like this I'd be lost without this resource.......

 

[JiFaire]

On the one hand, I'm happy that your problem is solved so easily and cheaply...

On the other, I'm sort of disappointed... we could use a step-by-step Pictorial DIY discussion on "How to change an Injection Pump in an afternoon"... seems to me we don't have one of those in out 6.5 Technical Reference Library...

You were THIS close to being a volunteer...

 

[buddy]

You might have another problem still. With OS unplugged you should only have 17, 18, and 42. And it will run in limp mode.

Sounds like your timing might be way off, something so that the Crank Position Sensor isnt good enough to keep it going. When was IP replaced last and was correct timing procedure done? TDCO relearn and where was it set?

 

[Yachtcare]

You might have another problem still. With OS unplugged you should only have 17, 18, and 42. And it will run in limp mode.

Sounds like your timing might be way off, something so that the Crank Position Sensor isnt good enough to keep it going. When was IP replaced last and was correct timing procedure done? TDCO relearn and where was it set?

Did a fair amount of driving this afternoon and evening.........NO codes, thankfully. And running fine. Starting better(less cranking time) than it has in a while also.

I'm assuming the bulk of those codes were caused by the stall at speed?

Did the VIN check thing at the other place sometime ago. It showed a warranty IP replacement about 90K miles. My odometer quit working about nine months ago at 201K. Guessing it's about 220-225 now. Can only say it hadnt been changed since I bought the truck at 181K. Had a bad load of fuel(water) that killed the OS about 18 months back. I swapped the OS and did the bump at that time.

About a month after that, took the truck to the local Stanadyne shop, they did the TDCO at -1.76. That was the last time anything on the IP was touched. Figure the OS harness has slowly been vibrating itself loose since then.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Sadly these things can "POP" a bunch of codes with the failure of a simple connection.

As far as ANAL goes, it pays to keep on top of these things and police up any issues with the wiring imediately..

The main wiring harness that lays in the valley area feeds all the sensors as well as the IP and is subject to wear and failures.

I was called in by a local truck shop as a consultant on a 6.5 after the steelership could not help them out.

Rig had just quit, Boom PLOP over and done and no codes.

Steeler wanted to sell a new IP, new ECM and a buttload of other stuff.

A few minutes poking around and while yanking on the harness with the tech cranking the thing started for a couple seconds.

We yanked the intake off and removed the complete harness.

Careful inspection of the harness revealed two wires thart had been sawed in two by the wrinkle Loom cover.

This wrinke loom is a great way to package wiring harness's but the stuff will rub wires bare and eventually cut them in half.

We ordered a fresh harness (two days wait) installed that and Pooof all better again.
We did some other repairs while in there too to clean up other pending failures.
( Fuel feed to the IP was in bad shape as was the fuel drain hose. Also replaced the filter harness and the harness to the PMD from the IP)

Glad you got the gremlin fixed


Missy

 

[buddy]

I wonder if this is an side effect of the OS Bump. Because it should not have died with just loss of the OS. I can unplug mine and drive all over.

The problem may be that the TDCO with OS bump may be a few degrees off of actual at the crank. So when it tries to run just off the crank timing signal it has timing wrong and it can't run.

Can anyone else with an OS bump try running with their OS unplugged, and report back if limp mode works?