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Sucking Air

dbrannon79 said:
just an FYI on replacing the fuel pickup tube / sender in the tank. all of the aftermarket ones out there will work (application specific) but your fuel gauge will bounce around when on the road due to the fuel sloshing in the tank! I experienced this when I replaced mine. used the Spectre brand from RockAuto. there is an alternative that iirc Leroy Diesel sells called the metrum rod sender. it's a bit more pricy than the factory replacement.

I've just dealt with the gauge movement on mine, even though it moves with the stop and go traffic, I have gotten used to it and know when I need to fill up!

take a good look at the rubber lines that connect to the sender assy too and replace all the O-rings.

not to mention look at the inside walls of the tank real good. if you see any rust or what looks like shiny hairs in the tank, that is the lining coming off. the tank will need to be replaced. RA sells the complete tanks for around $130 or so.
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The rubber lines that connect to the sender are permanently crimped to hard lines that get anchored to the frame. Currently you can get an SKB feeder on RockAuto for $56. Return line, I got a GM version off Amazon for like $106, whereas RockAuto was more and then they gouge you for shipping.

Dorman Fuel tanks on RockAuto are $181 plus shipping that takes it to like $240. I got a Dorman tank off Amazon for $183 with free Prime shipping.

As previously noted replace all the above due to the age of these trucks. Not a particularly hard job, but might as well do everything when you’re dropping the tank.
 
You can do that, but you will need to create some sort of "barb" on the steel lines so the hose won't slide off. I have seen hose clamped to a smooth pipe slide off under light amounts of pressure.

on the sender it's self, the nuts should slide back on the line exposing a flare that hold the o-ring in place. that area can be used as the "barb" so long as the hose is pushed over it and clamped on the other side. then run the hose longer over the tank so that you have access to them with the tank in place. use a tubing cutter on the lines of the truck then a flaring tool on the lines to make the barb.

a much better idea would be to find you some steel or stainless line of the same size to connect to the sender directly shaping them in such a way that the ends are accessible from under the truck. Meaning the sender would be hard lined over and down the side of the tank. then make your rubber hose connections there so the full length of the hose is serviceable without having to pull the tank or bed.

lots of guys in racing do this kind of work making custom fuel lines, you can even get a sender that would have standard fitting ports on them to connect flared hard line to and run anywhere you want.
 
Did the diesel rated line swap a while ago while doing the Walbro LP. I'm back to a stock LP but, the lines not OEM.
Leroy sells a barbed fitting 'kit' for the Fuel Sender Unit side. Just need the ones for the LP. I sourced what I needed a local hose and fitting store.
DSC00857.JPG
 
New parts arrive tomorrow, the bed is lifted, old sender out. Pretty sure the leak was in the sender supply line, before it turns into the tank.
Looking for opinions here. I had the experience of one AC/Delco filter sock collapsing. after that, I installed an external, spin on pre filter setup, which is currently bypassed. If this were your truck, would you 1) use the filter sock and forget the external setup; 2) skip the filter sock, and run just the external; 3) belt AND suspenders, run both. Part of my experience with the external was that I used a big filter element meant for a Cummins, so it may have been a bit much for the stock lift pump to pull through. I think I’d go with a smaller one, like the one Leroy Diesel sells.
TIA
 
I would toss the sock and go with an external filter. when I did this I just used a 3/8" inline metal filter. it's similar to what's found on most modern cars just a little smaller in diameter with 3/8" hose barbs. Mine had been on since sometime in 2021. I have not even pulled it to check.
 
Strongly recommend ditching the sock. Yes it provides more surface area so if a leaf or other similar debris got into the tank it could still pull fuel. But not worth the hassle in my opinion. Dropping the tank or pulling the bed is a PITA, toss it when you pull the new sender out of its box.

I've run NAPA filter 3270 between the tank and lift pump for years without issue. It's a simple/ cheap design, already 3/8" barbs, and is a screen filter so when it plugs you can just remove and clean out with compressed air. Have an extra one on hand just in case. All you have to do is get a few inches of 3/8" diesel rated fuel hose and some hose clamps, cut the steel fuel line with a small pipe/ tube cutter and splice in the filter using the rubber hose.
 
I’m the outlier here and vote for both, despite the fact the fact that the ‘99 I did the work on is now without the sock because I lost it in the old tank. 😂😎 I believe the greater surface area prevents a total clog. I have not dealt with the bug invasion that WarWagon did, which clogged his sock.

Reality, if you have a secondary spin on filter, you’re fine going without the sock. I just don’t lose sleep over this shit. Give Will L a shout, he’ll have an opinion on this for sure.
 
Haha- yeah I do and I thought you knew it.
Socks belong in boots not tanks.
The sock is a prefilter. A super cheap and fast on the assembly line, penny pinching, corporate profit making prefilter. You wanna drop the tank and fish around in there to clean that filter when needed- keep the sock.

If you want garbage out of your tank- remove the sock-(even consider using aftermarket 1/2” line coming out the bottom of a tank) and use a pre-filter worth owning.

Have I done it to my hummer yet? No. But hummer tanks are very different than my 6.2/6.5 pickup tanks were. Will I do it when I finally drop my hummer tank? Yuppers.
Add a 1/2” supply out the bottom (skid plate shoulder be on all rigs imo) feed to a proper prefilter & water filter before lift pump. Then 3/8 line all the way to the ip. Using the 1/4 return is ok for returns but better is to have all the return lines go into that 5/16 line and return to the tank in that. Send that 1/4” metal line to scrap pile.
Your ip gets cooling by fuel flow. It only sends what you are burning through the injector nozzles and all the rest goes back to the tank. The more fuel circulating is like more oil circulating past your bearings in the crank case. Longer ip life comes from proper oube in the fuel, proper fuel pressure, more fuel flow means more lubricant.

Y’all have to keel one thing in mind: GM made money by pinching pennies everywhere they could. You keep rigs alive longer and more reliable during that time by putting your labor in place of those pinched pennies. Unfortunately you have to spend dollars with it - and where the dollar actually pays for itself is the hard part to figure out.
Would I drop a tank on a truck and do it just because I have that weekend free? No.
But when you have problems (and you will) and that tank comes down- do it all the best way you can. If you’re labor is free and $ for parts is scarce- then you have to fix only what broke that time. But if you can buy the extra parts and only tear something alart once- then do it all at that time so you never have to touch it again.
So $60 in the bank and you still need to buy some food- leave the sock. Duct tape and bailing wire. If you have both checking account and savings account and decide which is smarter to remove money from instead of the only place money can come from being predetermined- your only decision should be the phrase you tell your wife of “buy once cry once” or “it’s always faster to do it right the first time than do it again”.
 
Will L. said:
Haha- yeah I do and I thought you knew it.
Socks belong in boots not tanks.
The sock is a prefilter. A super cheap and fast on the assembly line, penny pinching, corporate profit making prefilter. You wanna drop the tank and fish around in there to clean that filter when needed- keep the sock.

If you want garbage out of your tank- remove the sock-(even consider using aftermarket 1/2” line coming out the bottom of a tank) and use a pre-filter worth owning.

Have I done it to my hummer yet? No. But hummer tanks are very different than my 6.2/6.5 pickup tanks were. Will I do it when I finally drop my hummer tank? Yuppers.
Add a 1/2” supply out the bottom (skid plate shoulder be on all rigs imo) feed to a proper prefilter & water filter before lift pump. Then 3/8 line all the way to the ip. Using the 1/4 return is ok for returns but better is to have all the return lines go into that 5/16 line and return to the tank in that. Send that 1/4” metal line to scrap pile.
Your ip gets cooling by fuel flow. It only sends what you are burning through the injector nozzles and all the rest goes back to the tank. The more fuel circulating is like more oil circulating past your bearings in the crank case. Longer ip life comes from proper oube in the fuel, proper fuel pressure, more fuel flow means more lubricant.

Y’all have to keel one thing in mind: GM made money by pinching pennies everywhere they could. You keep rigs alive longer and more reliable during that time by putting your labor in place of those pinched pennies. Unfortunately you have to spend dollars with it - and where the dollar actually pays for itself is the hard part to figure out.
Would I drop a tank on a truck and do it just because I have that weekend free? No.
But when you have problems (and you will) and that tank comes down- do it all the best way you can. If you’re labor is free and $ for parts is scarce- then you have to fix only what broke that time. But if you can buy the extra parts and only tear something alart once- then do it all at that time so you never have to touch it again.
So $60 in the bank and you still need to buy some food- leave the sock. Duct tape and baling wire. If you have both checking account and savings account and decide which is smarter to remove money from instead of the only place money can come from being predetermined- your only decision should be the phrase you tell your wife of “buy once cry once” or “it’s always faster to do it right the first time than do it again”.
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I just have never had an issue with the sock plugging up. Twice now I’ve had the o-ring seals at the fuel sending unit fail. Also had corrosion inside one tank and outside on the other tank. Yes I vote with replace it all. Not sure the larger lines to the IP have much effect at all on the performance or cooling.
 
Big T said:
I just have never had an issue with the sock plugging up. Twice now I’ve had the o-ring seals at the fuel sending unit fail. Also had corrosion inside one tank and outside on the other tank. Yes I vote with replace it all. Not sure the larger lines to the IP have much effect at all on the performance or cooling.
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Ya know I got love for you bro- but you always relate any issue to
I haven’t had X
I haven’t had to replace one of MY ip because of water damage or bug damage- should that mean I should push against people recommending better filtration?

Just because you don’t have first hand experience in something doesn’t mean it isn’t a real thing.

Not sure the greater flow having effect-I understand. Thats why I share my knowledge that it does because I have seen the difference, we tested on multiple trucks and the evidence was clear.
Is it a massive improvement that should be top of everyone’s list? Nope. Getting that feed up to 3/8 to the ip and keeping minimum psi of 8 for your ds4 is, along with the pressure gauge tapped there.
The tank improvements are all a “while your there” thing, keeping in mind that the improved prefilter, liftpump, etc should already have been addressed.
 
Will L. said:
Ya know I got love for you bro- but you always relate any issue to
I haven’t had X
I haven’t had to replace one of MY ip because of water damage or bug damage- should that mean I should push against people recommending better filtration?

Just because you don’t have first hand experience in something doesn’t mean it isn’t a real thing.

Not sure the greater flow having effect-I understand. Thats why I share my knowledge that it does because I have seen the difference, we tested on multiple trucks and the evidence was clear.
Is it a massive improvement that should be top of everyone’s list? Nope. Getting that feed up to 3/8 to the ip and keeping minimum psi of 8 for your ds4 is, along with the pressure gauge tapped there.
The tank improvements are all a “while your there” thing, keeping in mind that the improved prefilter, liftpump, etc should already have been addressed.
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1) the water damage to the one IP was 100% my fault as I transferred unfiltered diesel from a boat that was being repowered from diesel I/O to gas Outboards.

2) I installed a pre-filter with the new Air Dog Raptor lift pump. Sock was MIA on the sender and I had not removed it intentionally.
 
Guess I am on the fence about getting rid of the sock........ I got rid of mine a while back, then a couple years back I started having issues with the truck stalling randomly and refusing to restart. I found that if I unscrewed the prefilter I had installed it would suck air in to relieve a massive vacuum........ then I could prime the system and restart (if my batteries held out for enough cranking) This drove me nuts till I finally dropped the tank and discovered that the OEM baffles are held down with rubber washers that push down over studs. Three or four of these had come loose and were floating around in the tank and would occasionally get sucked up against the pickup tube and shut me down...........

I ended up swapping out the tank with the unit Rock auto sells (which does not have that style baffle) Anyway if you are running around without a sock in an OEM tank and find a vacuum after stalling out some where, this may be the problem.
 
All in all, it would be nice if they made a coarse mesh strainer made of steel or stainless to replace the sock. that would eliminate both issues of the sock getting clogged and the effect of a plain open pipe having some floating object block it in one blow!
 
dbrannon79 said:
All in all, it would be nice if they made a coarse mesh strainer made of steel or stainless to replace the sock. that would eliminate both issues of the sock getting clogged and the effect of a plain open pipe having some floating object block it in one blow!
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Typically in a boat fuel tank they add a broad funnel with stainless screen to the bottom of the pick-up tube. Boats, especially saltwater boats living in the water, always have problems with water and junk in the fuel.
 
Sock was removed from the sender on my truck when I purchased it from the PO. He had one of them 3/8ths steel filters inline before the LP.
Nope, I aint installing a sock filter into the tank.
I did install the 3/8ths FFM filter kit from Leroy.
Can I tell the difference, nope, but I know I’ll always have an ample supply of fuel to the IP.
A fuel pressure gauge is the next step. Thank You Big T.
 
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It’s fixed. Runs better than ever, with the new injectors and IP. The problem was in the sender. I went with the Dorman unit, pitched the sock in the trash, and used an AC Delco lock ring and gasket. The gas gauge doesn’t wiggle around too much, so the Dorman sender may be superior to the Spectro one in that regard.
Thanks to everyone who contributed and shared their experiences. Nice folks here, and lots of accumulated knowledge. It’s so great to have my truck back. Now I can put the camper back on it, and enjoy the autumn weather!
 
MrMarty51 said:
Sock was removed from the sender on my truck when I purchased it from the PO. He had one of them 3/8ths steel filters inline before the LP.
Nope, I aint installing a sock filter into the tank.
I did install the 3/8ths FFM filter kit from Leroy.
Can I tell the difference, nope, but I know I’ll always have an ample supply of fuel to the IP.
A fuel pressure gauge is the next step. Thank You Big T.
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Please provide us details on the fuel pressure gauge.
Can't believe there's not a kit
 
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