Stolen DPF!

[Ed HD]

LOL. Yeah, if it was a pickup, I'd have had no qualms about throwing an aftermarket turbo back setup on there and letting 'er rip. This one is a little different though...

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Once DOT is involved, it's a bit trickier getting rid of that stuff.

 

[Ed HD]

Yeah. And my local DOT inspector would pass me no worries, but I'm already skirting the lines running non-commercial plates and not having a CDL...

 

[WarWagon]

CDL license required by weight of the rig being over 26,001? IMO you may not be skirting anything, but, state law is a mess.

Even though my 3500 (1ton) is recreational use I have to have commercial plates on it and declare weight over X LBS. May be able to change that with the camper on it. The 2500 (3/4t) doesn't have to have commercial plates and the difference between the 2500/3500 SRW is that alone in some cases.

 

[Ed HD]

The plates certify it at 15,000#. Idk, I've been told that if I cross state lines (occasionally skirt into WI) I should at least have a health-card.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

In Florida, even 2500's have to have weighted tags. They tried doing that to me with my BURB when they seen 2500 on the door. Was going to be about $150 a year. I said WO, when did this happen, theycalled the supervisor over, and turns out SUV's regardless of weight rating are exempt, so my tag was $60 a year.

 

[BIGR]

The plates certify it at 15,000#. Idk, I've been told that if I cross state lines (occasionally skirt into WI) I should at least have a health-card.

If your GVWR exceeds 10,000 pounds, you cross state lines, engaged in commerce, you have to have the medical card, DOT Number and the whole shooting match of things. You are just like an 18 wheeler as far as the Federal Regulations.

Trust me I know about those great things.

Ferm, more power to you. In my state a lot of people run the Suburban's and the Excursions with the basic car tag and it is registered technically as an SUV. Some pull a lot of weight with them on a trailer. The way the law is written they get by with it and it is cheaper.

Darn license plate fees just went up in my state. My 2500HD tag is going from about 75 dollars to more than 105 dollars. That is for about 10,000 pounds registered weight. I could probably get a farm plate for about half that, which I might do in the near future.

 

[Will L.]

10,000? I know 20,000 is limit before cdl. Wasn't aware of 10,000 lbs, but Nv isn't too picky- as l g as they get their $

 

[BIGR]

10,000? I know 20,000 is limit before cdl. Wasn't aware of 10,000 lbs, but Nv isn't too picky- as l g as they get their $

CDL's kick in at a GVWR greater than 26,000 Pounds, unless it might be a certain amount of Haz Mat or a passenger vehicle such as a van or bus with a high enough passenger rating. However there is certain exemptions to CDL's for farmers and other situations.

Read below, it is straight from the regs. book:


Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or

(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.


Read Below for certain exceptions from CDL's:

§ 383.3: Applicability.


(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.

(b) The exceptions contained in § 390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in § 390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.

(c) Exception for certain military drivers. Each State must exempt from the requirements of this part individuals who operate CMVs for military purposes. This exception is applicable to active duty military personnel; members of the military reserves; member of the national guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time national guard duty, personnel on part-time national guard training, and national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms); and active duty U.S. Coast Guard personnel. This exception is not applicable to U.S. Reserve technicians.

(d) Exception for farmers, firefighters, emergency response vehicle drivers, and drivers removing snow and ice. A State may, at its discretion, exempt individuals identified in paragraphs (d)(1), (d)(2), and (d)(3) of this section from the requirements of this part. The use of this waiver is limited to the driver's home State unless there is a reciprocity agreement with adjoining States.

(1) Operators of a farm vehicle which is:

(i) Controlled and operated by a farmer, including operation by employees or family members;

(ii) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or both to or from a farm;

(iii) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and

(iv) Used within 241 kilometers (150 miles) of the farmer's farm.

(2) Firefighters and other persons who operate CMVs which are necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions, are equipped with audible and visual signals and are not subject to normal traffic regulation. These vehicles include fire trucks, hook and ladder trucks, foam or water transport trucks, police SWAT team vehicles, ambulances, or other vehicles that are used in response to emergencies.

(3)(i) A driver, employed by an eligible unit of local government, operating a commercial motor vehicle within the boundaries of that unit for the purpose of removing snow or ice from a roadway by plowing, sanding, or salting, if

(A) The properly licensed employee who ordinarily operates a commercial motor vehicle for these purposes is unable to operate the vehicle; or

(B) The employing governmental entity determines that a snow or ice emergency exists that requires additional assistance.

(ii) This exemption shall not preempt State laws and regulations concerning the safe operation of commercial motor vehicles.

There is more exceptions for drivers in certain states like Alaska. One must read the book for those.

 

[Ed HD]

So I need to have a health card and a US DOT #, but not a CDL. Good to know. I've been lucky so far, knock on wood...

 

[tanman_2006]

...as most do!

That insurance check would be nice lol.

 

[Will L.]

Thanks @BIGR, I knew 26000 was the limit total before needing cdl, no clue why I put 20000- old timers kicking in? But now I'm confused on the 10,000-

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

If just a truck is rated 10,001 lbs is a cdl required?

 

[BIGR]

So I need to have a health card and a US DOT #, but not a CDL. Good to know. I've been lucky so far, knock on wood...

Based on what you told me if you cross state lines from time to time the above statement is correct, I would say that is correct. You might operate a truck for 20 years in that capacity and never get stopped, but there is that one time.

Here is where the Feds. (FMCSA) says you must comply if you are crossing state lines. Straight from the FMCSA website. I hope this does not confuse you anymore.

§ 390.3: General applicability.


Link to an amendment published at 78 FR 52652, Aug. 23, 2013. Link to a correction published at 78 FR 63100, Oct. 23, 2013.
(a) The rules in subchapter B of this chapter are applicable to all employers, employees, and commercial motor vehicles, which transport property or passengers in interstate commerce.

(b) The rules in part 383, Commercial Driver's License Standards; Requirements and Penalties, are applicable to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in § 383.5 of this subchapter, in interstate or intrastate commerce and to all employers of such persons.

(c) The rules in part 387, Minimum Levels of Financial Responsibility for Motor Carriers, are applicable to motor carriers as provided in § 387.3 or § 387.27 of this subchapter.


Here is where they are saying your truck is a commercial motor vehicle for the purpose of having to have the Medical Card, US DOT #. You might need a log book to if you are going a certain distance beyond your base of operations.

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

Now, don't get confused about what it mentioned about the CDL in 390.3 B. That area is basically saying for the purpose of a CDL they are going to refer to 383.5. and 26,001 LBS.

Here is what it says:

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or

(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

There you have it, it seems like your box truck falls under Number (2) of the above section. Therefore if the GVWR Plate inside the door says your truck has a GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less and your gross vehicle weight never exceeds 26,000 pounds you should be good to go with a non-CDL License all day long. You must be careful if you ever hook a trailer to that truck. According to section (1) up above, that trailer would have to have a rating or weight above 10,000 pounds.

Some of the truck manufactures are intentionally rating the trucks at 26,000 or less to stay out of CDL territory. That is where one must remember to also keep the vehicle and loads gross weight under 26,000 pounds. Remember GVWR or Gross Weight over 26,000 gets into CDL territory. I have seen some pretty good sized box trucks rated at 26,000 pounds or less. I was surprised at some of them being rated so low.

The Federal Regulations can be real confusing when it refers to who must comply with the regulations and what requires a CDL License.
A truck or combination of truck and trailer 26,000 pounds and under staying within my home state might does not have to meet the federal regulations unless it hauls a certain amount of haz mat or passengers. It is when that truck crosses that state line and is engaged in interstate commerce.
I could drive a truck rated at 26,000 LBS. or less all day long in my state and not need anything other than a valid car license. I could drive as many hours as I wanted, not need a medical card or any numbers on the door. Thing about it is I could do as much harm as a truck rated more than 26,000 pounds if I get tired and crash my vehicle into others.

I hope you are not confused now. I will tell you that a lot of times it just boils down to the officer that stops the truck and their interpretation of the laws when dealing with the smaller trucks like yours. 18 wheelers are cut and dried, because of the their high ratings and size. They pretty well have to meet all the regs. no matter where they are.

 

[BIGR]

Thanks @BIGR, I knew 26000 was the limit total before needing cdl, no clue why I put 20000- old timers kicking in? But now I'm confused on the 10,000-

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

If just a truck is rated 10,001 lbs is a cdl required?

Will L, a CDL IS NOT Required for any vehicle or combination of vehicles under 26,000 pounds GVWR or Gross Weight, unless it might be hauling Hazmat or passengers.

Based on that: A driver of a truck rated 10,001 LBS. does not have to have a CDL.

The feds really confuse us with their definition of a commercial motor vehicle in two different places, one being 390.3 and the other is 383.5 . For the purpose of a CDL License the definition of a CMV under 383.5 is a vehicle greater than 26,000 LBS, GVWR or Gross Weight. For the purpose of meeting the federal regulations they are calling a CMV a vehicle 10,001 or more. I hope the above post clears that up.

This stuff can almost make your head hurt.

 

[Will L.]

So only COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE over 10,000?

All smogs in Nv are done by private shops not the state. When I bought my Hummer, the titled weight was something around 7,000 lbs. the sticker on the door jam says 10,300. When they started smoging diesels here, it all done on a dyno and a tailpipe probe. But being full time 4wd, none of the shops could do it. I had to drive around from DMV to two different shops, back to the DMV to get a waiver from smog that only a supervisor could do. This is a yearly event.

After spending two days straight trying to get a waiver for renewal one year and only getting a supervisor to come back on the clock and back to the DMV by driving over thier landscaping and having witnesses videotape it so I could get the whole thing put on the news, to avoid the Publicity of the problem, they ignored the destroyed landscaping, and the supervisor came to the inspection facility to re-rate my vehicle weighting up to the 10,300 lbs mark on the door. This made me exempt from diesel smog. It raised my yearly registration $50, but "saved me" the $40 smog cost. It eliminated the yearly runaround.

Until 2 years later when they raised the weight limit to 26,001 lbs. Then a person opened up a diesel smog dyno that can do full time 4 wd. Now I can't lower the extra rating, which is now $60 annually, and I pay to smog every year also. Ya team! Been this way now for last 4-5 years.

So with my hummer now a "registered" 10,300lbs - what does that mean it regards to use commercially? If I get a job delivering pizzas with it - is it CMV?
Is it already CMV?

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Unless you're driving/towing an RV, then all bets are off. ANYBODY can jump behind the wheel of a 48 foot prevost with air brakes, tandem axle, weighing 35k pounds, with a trailer in tow. So long as they stay under the max combined length allowed in that state, they are legal. BUT, if you get somebody to help you drive and offer them money or any k8nd of payment, the person receiving payment must have a CDL. Or if you're a lot porter at an rv dealer, or a mechanic at one working on them, you must have a CDL to drive one. They can go out and drive there own completely legally, but to drive one around a dealer lot that isn't theres requires a cdl.

 

[Will L.]

Looks like I might have bent a rule or two in the past...

 

[BIGR]

Will L, you might want to check with your home state, but at 10,300 LBS. GVWR and you staying with in your state, not crossing state lines, you are not technically a commercial motor vehicle as far as meeting the federal regulation requirements. Your state should follow the Federal Rule that is defining what a commercial motor vehicle is, which would mean your truck would have to be rated more than 10,000 pounds and operating in interstate commerce (across state lines). Operating within your state should not qualify your truck per say as a CMV.

I must also add that certain states allow local departments and agencies to enforce the truck regulations. I am not saying that Barney Fife at the local police department has no clue about trucks, but Barney might interpret some of the rules and regulations a little different than a State Agency that is solely in charge of enforcing the Federal Regulations pertaining to trucks. In my state, ONLY, ONLY the Highway Patrol can enforce the Federal Regulations and enforce the size and weight laws. The state law specifically says only the Highway Patrol has that authority. I think your state might allow police and sheriffs departments to enforce the regulations pertaining to trucks. Not saying that is good or bad. If they are trained and follow the rules then it might be ok. We must keep in mind that their main job is public safety and responding to calls, such as robberies, domestic disputes and so on. Their truck enforcement might be just now and then. Do they stay up on all of the Federal Regulations? Once again I don't want to take anything away from them. Some departments could have specific designated units that focus on trucks and they might be the best of the best. If they stay trained and informed then they should be proficient at what they do. As we all know laws and rules are constantly changing from day to day.

I can get me a truck rated up to 26,000 LBS. and weighing 26,000 pounds or less, stay with in my state, operate it in a business type operation and I don't have to comply with the Federal Regulations. I cannot even be legally be inspected as far as a CVSA inspection. My vehicle nor I as a driver, would not be inspect able. Your state should be similar. Believe it or not some states seem to twist some of this stuff around

I would say deliver all the pizzas or conduct all the business you want in your Hummer as long as you are with in your state. Cross state lines in that Hummer using it to deliver goods and conduct business, then you are subject to the federal regulations.



Ferm, you are right, anyone with a regular license can pretty well drive a motor home when it is only for recreation. Do I agree with that, not all of the time. Some people don't need to be driving a car much less a 45 foot RV. Some states might require a specific class of license even though a CDL is not required.

 

[Ed HD]

Good to know. No worries about towing, got a lift gate in the back that gets in the way, lol.

And yeah, I could put a couple tractors on a trailer, farm vehicle or not, and as long as it's for personal use and not for-hire, you can do what ever you want, lol.

 

[SfcJones]

I hate thieves...