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starter woes

funny you mention it, I just changed the oil a couple days prior. Never thought to even look at the starter. But I did put a new battery cable on a week or so ago, both bolts were there and the starter wasn't loose then.
 
bison said:
....or you stripped a couple of teeth from the ring gear.
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i had this happen to me (teeth cracked and were gone, not just stripped), sounded exactly as you described and also exactly when i could not need it. no time to fix it myself so i had the stealer replace flywheel and starter (transmission had to come out) don't ask how much ....

i see you fixed this already. very good.
 
For you guys experiencing the broken bolts, where are they failing? Does it look like failure started at stress points/risers near the knurling?
 
Sparky8370 said:
I'm guessing you are talking about the dewalt bits with the pilot bit built right on the end. I loved those at first too. I bought two different packs of them. I got the medium sized on first, and then I got the biggest kit theey made. They work great, but the go dull and/or snap pretty fast. The last kit I got was from fastenal and they last way longer than the dewalts. But they were more than twice as much. I just drill a pilot first. I even do that when using a uni-bit.

If you are having a hard time removing a broken bolt or stud, my Dad taught me a trick that works great. You place a nut over the stud and weld it to it. Not only does this give you something to grip, but it heats the whole stud and if you get it while it's still hot it comes out like butter. I used this trick on an alu head where about 5 of the studs broke.
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I've also run into studs in aluminum heads that acted like they'd had some type of threadlock that heat releases. Soon as one breaks & you can see the material, apply a little heat judiciously around the boss, and the rest spin out uneventfully.
 
SmithvilleD said:
For you guys experiencing the broken bolts, where are they failing? Does it look like failure started at stress points/risers near the knurling?
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Mine snapped about a half inch from the end (threaded end) Probably about half of the section that is threaded, but before the knurling begins. The piece I pulled out would probably measure 1/2 inch, and was all thread. Compared to the other one, that would mean the bolt that fell out still had some threads on it. The other bolt had a pretty good bend to it after the end of the threads, from the starter trying to turn sideways.

What is the knurling for anyway?
 
Mine snapped at the threaded end just short of the knurling.

I'm planning on checking them on oil changes and replacing them at tire changes.
 
Are you missing the starter bracket?

Are you missing the starter bracket?

It mounts on the end of the starter and attaches to the block. The theory is that without it, you will break bolts!

I've attached a pic of mine.

Cheers.
Mike
 

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Knurling from what I know it to keep them from coming loose. Was your rear bracket missing ? Usually two main things break the bolts, either rear bracket missing or use of starting fluid. Wanna talk bucks ? My 37MT starter I just bought 450$$. OUch. I firmly believe if a truck is missing the rear bracket then upon installing a new one the bolts should also be replaced as PM. Too bad you were not closer . I have a box of them brand new from GM> I keep spares of everything.
 
Detroit Dan said:
my starter bracket was there, dont know what caused the snapped bolt
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Bracket may have saved you your block. You never know...

I ran for over a year maybe 2 without the bracket, hack mechanic didn't put it back in.... I ended up not being able to start it without crinching until I finally got one......

Was that same brace which caused me to bring it to my buddies garage... I couldn't get it ot come out! (before i found these sites, of course)
 
Doing an oil change tonight so I'll look closer. Often knurling is done to increase diameter a bit & more positively locate the bolt in the center of a hole - like the knurling or wave-loc on rod bolts affect on how they fit the rod cap. If memory serves, it seems like there were hollow dowl pins to help locate the starter?
 
SmithvilleD said:
Doing an oil change tonight so I'll look closer. Often knurling is done to increase diameter a bit & more positively locate the bolt in the center of a hole - like the knurling or wave-loc on rod bolts affect on how they fit the rod cap. If memory serves, it seems like there were hollow dowl pins to help locate the starter?
Click to expand...

That is what i've always heard the knurling was for too.

There was no other means of alignment other than the starter bolts on mine anyhow.
 
The knurling serves the same purpse as hollow dowels would, its to align the starter to the block.
In my experience the bolts allways seem to break right where the countersink meets the treaded part in the block, Its the weakest point of the bolt where the unsupported treads ends at the knurling.
over or under torque,and/or flexing of the starter because of a missing rear bracket/bolt speeds the process of fatique ending in loss/or breakagage.
 
So why wouldn't they just make a larger bolt? I would think that if you did get any movement that knurling would wear out faster than a larger bolt.
 
Ahem....$$$$$
Why wouldn't they admit putting a PMD on the IP was a bad idea...Why did they mount fuel tanks outside the frame rail...and so on and so on...
In fact the whole idea of using the same basic mounting/bolts that a gasser does is stupid. The starter should be bolted horizontally to the bellhousing not vert to the block. How many class 8 diesels do you see mounted like the 6.2//6.5s are ? All to save a buck.
 
Not much else to improve on the bolts other then a grade 12 maybe,but if something has to give,then I rather break a bolt then a piece off the block.
I side wih ACE on the pisspoor mounting design,espessially that itti bitti bracket hookup at the other end.Gawd what a joke,must've been a last min decision by the GM bean counters.
 
my cousins Ford bolts to the tranny, due to bolt breakage and strippage, he is now putting a new tranny in it, just to change the starter.
 
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