I have a 1997 K2500 6.5 F series Diesel, I replaced the PMD last year when the truck started stalling when ever it chose too, since I have had no issues, everything is stock no aftermarket stuff. Yesterday I went out started my truck drove about 20 min to a job, went out 30 min later and the truck wouldn't start, like it wasn't getting fuel. I opened the bleeder on the top of the fuel filter and got some air then bubbles and then fuel, after a few attempts it started. I drove it home and it was sputtering and very rough. I took the fuel filter out (which was replaced approx 1 month ago during normal service) checked the seal and put it back on, I turned the ignition forward then bleed the air through the bleeder valve and then attempted to start the truck, it started and I drove to my next job where I worked about 5 hours got in started right up, and it was fine all the way there and back, stopped at the gas station turned it off then same issue again, messed with it for about 15 min and it started and ran rough and sputtered rest of the way home. This morning I started it for warm up and it ran about 5 min and shut off now it wont start. This is my first diesel and I am not familiar with the abbreviations some of you guys use so please explain and if possible help me out. Thanks I appreciate any input. (side note I did relocate the PMD when I changed it) Thanks Jason
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Stalling And Sputtering
- Thread starter GACCC
- Start date
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
Welcome to TTS!
The repeated bleeding of air seems like it is the issue. Question is the cause.
Scenario looks like the system is getting some gravity induced air (sucking it in when the truck shuts off) and seeing as the fuel filter was recently replaced, I'd focus there first and then work outward.
Any puddles? If so, that is a good place to look for whether it is fuel, oil, or other . . .
The repeated bleeding of air seems like it is the issue. Question is the cause.
Scenario looks like the system is getting some gravity induced air (sucking it in when the truck shuts off) and seeing as the fuel filter was recently replaced, I'd focus there first and then work outward.
Any puddles? If so, that is a good place to look for whether it is fuel, oil, or other . . .
Filters don't re-seal well. Replace it just for the o-ring.
Air is the #1 thing to troubleshoot. Put a clear return line on the IP and watch it through the hood crack after stalling or when cranking. Air during cranking after or during trouble means you fix that first. Kinked hoses, failed LP, plugged sock, gasoline or water in fuel, pinhole in pickup assy...
You relocated the PMD with what to where?
Made in Communist China PMD cable out of the frying pan into the fire on the intake?
If it isn't relocated to the front bumper with a Made in USA cable it has trouble written all over it. The intake can see over 300 degrees under full boost on a hot summer day. Once cooked the PMD is flaky. Leroy Diesel offers trouble free Made in USA cables. Short of that people seriously convert to mechanical DB2 injection pumps so give the PMD system the best parts to work with as it's a FUBAR design to begin with. Seriously: http://www.10000cows.com/stanadyne-ds4.htm
Air is the #1 thing to troubleshoot. Put a clear return line on the IP and watch it through the hood crack after stalling or when cranking. Air during cranking after or during trouble means you fix that first. Kinked hoses, failed LP, plugged sock, gasoline or water in fuel, pinhole in pickup assy...
You relocated the PMD with what to where?
Made in Communist China PMD cable out of the frying pan into the fire on the intake?
If it isn't relocated to the front bumper with a Made in USA cable it has trouble written all over it. The intake can see over 300 degrees under full boost on a hot summer day. Once cooked the PMD is flaky. Leroy Diesel offers trouble free Made in USA cables. Short of that people seriously convert to mechanical DB2 injection pumps so give the PMD system the best parts to work with as it's a FUBAR design to begin with. Seriously: http://www.10000cows.com/stanadyne-ds4.htm
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Sound to me like an air intrusion. On gas engines you don't have to worry about that like you do in a diesel. imagine a leaky fuel hose connection, that instead of letting fuel out, it is letting air get sucked in. I believe that is the problem you are having. replace the fuel filter, cap, and seal with a new one since that is when the problem may have started.
replace the 1/4" diameter by 4" long return hose coming out of the front of your injector pump with a clear hose. This allows you to see air in the system.
on edit: War wagon you type fast!
replace the 1/4" diameter by 4" long return hose coming out of the front of your injector pump with a clear hose. This allows you to see air in the system.
on edit: War wagon you type fast!
War Wagon the replaced PMD was american and yes I put it in the bumper behind the license plate bracket, what is the IP and LP or plugged sock you mentioned? Don't mean to sound dumb, im just new to the diesel world and don't know the lingo.
Will L. I will replace the fuel filter like you said as for the injector pump, dumb question..... but location? where do I look.
Will L. I will replace the fuel filter like you said as for the injector pump, dumb question..... but location? where do I look.
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Parts Locator Sticky is your Friend: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/part-locations.9494/
The Acronym Sticky is your next friend: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/acronyms-what-you-talking-about.11081/
From my own library of pictures:
IP= Injection Pump. Sits in the front of the engine valley (between the heads) under your intake on the opposite side of the Fuel Filter.
Here's a prettier shot:
This is the hole the IP it leaves when pulled out: The return line is what is being advocated to replace with clear tyrgon or however it is spelled.
LP= Lift Pump. Located on the inside frame rail under the cab.
Sock= a pre-filter located inside your fuel tank on the end of the fuel draw pipe. It's known to clog after so many miles or one or two tanks of really crappy fuel. I don't have a picture handy but here's the part number:
Again, the Technical Assistance sticky is your friend too. Here's an article by TurbineDoc about Lift Pumps & OPS (Oil Pressure Sender which is located under the lower intake and the Fuel Filter Manager [FFM]) Operation & Troubleshooting
that has plenty of pictures to include the sock.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/lift-pumps-ops-operation-and-troubleshooting.6872/
TurbineDoc mentored me and a lot of others on here a time ago.
Go Crazy=have fun learning.
The Acronym Sticky is your next friend: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/acronyms-what-you-talking-about.11081/
From my own library of pictures:
IP= Injection Pump. Sits in the front of the engine valley (between the heads) under your intake on the opposite side of the Fuel Filter.
Here's a prettier shot:
This is the hole the IP it leaves when pulled out: The return line is what is being advocated to replace with clear tyrgon or however it is spelled.
LP= Lift Pump. Located on the inside frame rail under the cab.
Sock= a pre-filter located inside your fuel tank on the end of the fuel draw pipe. It's known to clog after so many miles or one or two tanks of really crappy fuel. I don't have a picture handy but here's the part number:
Again, the Technical Assistance sticky is your friend too. Here's an article by TurbineDoc about Lift Pumps & OPS (Oil Pressure Sender which is located under the lower intake and the Fuel Filter Manager [FFM]) Operation & Troubleshooting
that has plenty of pictures to include the sock.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/lift-pumps-ops-operation-and-troubleshooting.6872/
TurbineDoc mentored me and a lot of others on here a time ago.
Go Crazy=have fun learning.
Thank you, very awesome help! I'll get crackin and see what I can come up with, really appreciate the help people!
JMJNet
Recruit
In addition to suggestion above with making sure that there is no air in fuel system.
I will go a step further by eliminating the PMD extension cable by putting PMD temporarily to the original cable.
This way, it eliminates the extension cable just in case.
There is also a chance that PMD may have failed again.
Unfortunately, putting PMD on the bumper does not make it immune from failing.
It should just prolong its life but there are a lot of other factors that hinder us from prolonging PMD life.
Quality is one of them.
Also, I hope you have a spare KNOWN WORKING PMD? If not, that may be a worthwhile investment. The importance of spare PMD in this truck is at the same level as spare tire if you want to own this truck and enjoy driving it.
Is there any trouble code when this happened?
As with this type of issue, make sure the electrical parts like batteries, cables, grounds and connections are all good. May also want to load test the batteries one at a time.
I will go a step further by eliminating the PMD extension cable by putting PMD temporarily to the original cable.
This way, it eliminates the extension cable just in case.
There is also a chance that PMD may have failed again.
Unfortunately, putting PMD on the bumper does not make it immune from failing.
It should just prolong its life but there are a lot of other factors that hinder us from prolonging PMD life.
Quality is one of them.
Also, I hope you have a spare KNOWN WORKING PMD? If not, that may be a worthwhile investment. The importance of spare PMD in this truck is at the same level as spare tire if you want to own this truck and enjoy driving it.
Is there any trouble code when this happened?
As with this type of issue, make sure the electrical parts like batteries, cables, grounds and connections are all good. May also want to load test the batteries one at a time.
Got a question???? I found that the fuel lines coming from the tank itself are rusted and I can see it bubble on the supply side, assuming that this is the cause of my air in the system and after changing the LP and Fuel filter as others suggested, if I take the take down and replace these lines , sock, and any other components since it will be down, (finally the question) how is the best way to purge the system of air?
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
After replacing the lines, purging the air is the same as before when you were swapping out the Filters, open the bleeder valve and run the Lift Pump either with the key in Run position, not cranking or using the 12v feed to the LP that sits at the back of the Under Hood Fuse Box.
Make a 6' jumper wire to bridge the gap between one of the two aux power terminals on the back of the fuse box (remove the lid, they'll be right there were at the back, to exposed studs with at least one heavy wire running to it [mine are the upgraded heavier Red cable]) and it will power up the LP only. Won't take too long to get the fuel pumped up to the Fuel Filter Manager (FFM) and then you can try starting it. There may be a little cranking time as there might be some air in the line under the manifold to the Injection Pump (IP) but it will light of in short order.
Make a 6' jumper wire to bridge the gap between one of the two aux power terminals on the back of the fuse box (remove the lid, they'll be right there were at the back, to exposed studs with at least one heavy wire running to it [mine are the upgraded heavier Red cable]) and it will power up the LP only. Won't take too long to get the fuel pumped up to the Fuel Filter Manager (FFM) and then you can try starting it. There may be a little cranking time as there might be some air in the line under the manifold to the Injection Pump (IP) but it will light of in short order.
Paveltolz
Доверяй, но проверяй
Correction: '... TWO exposed studs with at least one heavy wire....'
So letting you guys know, thanks for the help! I found the fuel line on the supply side had a few pin holes near the sending unit on the tank. i dropped the tank, bought a new sending unit, filler neck tube (old one had a 1/8" hole in it from rust), installed new lines , supply and return, Installed a new LP, and replaced the fuel filter with a Wix brand. turned the key to the on position, purged the air till I got a steady flow of fuel and started it up! Running good seems to be no more issues, almost running better than before. If I run into another issue I'll be back on to ask the experts, again thanks for all the suggestions!
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Good to hear. Keep running it for a week to make sure no other problems. Then get a fuel gauge in line before the ip but after the ffm. Use a gauge that reads pressure and vacuum. This will keep you up on when your LP dies or there is a restriction in the line.
Did you get a clear line on the IP return for future diagnostic? It will make help you in the future when something else starts acting goofy.
Did you get a clear line on the IP return for future diagnostic? It will make help you in the future when something else starts acting goofy.
jrsavoie
Recruit
I have been installing a toggle switch - I prefer either safety or weatherproof to that connector on all of my vehicles. No more looking for a jumper wire and hooking it up. Just flip the switch and go. I install an inline fuse before the toggle switch.
Wish I had done this years ago
What FSU (Fuel Sending Unit) did you use? Aftermarket will have incorrect sock on it and can present problems.
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