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Split shot injectors?

You can order the shims from a place called Mercedes Source. Just search for it on google, and search "injector shims" on there website. Its the third hit down, comes in a yellow case. They are the same identical shims used on the 6.5L nozzles. My advice though, if you have a pop tester, buy several packs of the .05mm shims to keep as extra's. The kit they sell only has about 6 of the .05mm and .10mm shims and it makes trying to get all the nozzles balanced within 25psi or so of eachother a real PITA.
 
Thanks for the info, 6.2 turbo. I'm going to do a little shopping on fleabay or the hit the U Pull It and get myself an AAZ injector to see what's what with those things...

Thanks for the advice on the .05's BigBlueChevy. I was planning to go with mercedessource but didn't know if they had the right parts. I wouldn't have thought to get extra .05s.

Sadly, I called a big injection shop nearby and asked about buying a large assortment of shims and the parts guy didn't know what to say. So he went and talked to the injection techs, but all they knew was "shims are in this drawer"... Like they magically show up there in the middle of the night! WTF? He said he was going to have to wait until monday and talk to someone else...
 
I am also a member of www.vwdiesel.net/fourm the two-stage injectors are raved about in many performance builds for the IDI guys. You are all on the right track here, I am so glad someone else is pursuing this for the 6.5's. Try talking to GILES from http://www.performancediesel.ca/ I'm sure if someone intelligent talks to him with this idea, he may just jump at the chance to work this issue. He builds THE baddest vw/merc/audi bosch pumps known to mankind, PERIOD. The AAZ injector idea is a good one, however, our engines demand far more fuel than a 1.9l engine .475l per cyl, as opposed to .81l per cyl is a big difference for an IDI, many factors have to be taken into effect, precup size, fuel amount, injection timing, adjustments for pressure and timing, as well as fuel temperature "it is a big deal" you can get shims through your local parts dealer through napa, there was a post on vwdiesel about this not too long ago I think. I know you can usually get AAZ goodies on there fairly often in the classifieds. I'm in love with this site now.
 
Look, lets get this straight right off the bat. I don't work for him, and I do not get paid commission. To the best of my worldly knowledge his pumps are the best. He don't brag about it, but I will, you want to know more? you gotta talk to him. He can custom tailor a pump for whatever you want, Mr. Heath wouldn't listen to me, and just wanted to keep his own setup secret for his own reasons I'm sure. What do I know anyway right? The truth in this matter is Giles knows his stuff, it speaks for itself, and you get what you pay for. I have a rebuilt 1.6 td bosch pump built to my specs, and it is AWESOME! I did some slight modifications but the inside is all Giles. I can only assume the same order of business for the stanadyne pumps. If there is a way to make dual pressure injectors Giles could do it.
 
NintendoKD said:
Look, lets get this straight right off the bat. I don't work for him, and I do not get paid commission. To the best of my worldly knowledge his pumps are the best. He don't brag about it, but I will, you want to know more? you gotta talk to him. He can custom tailor a pump for whatever you want, Mr. Heath wouldn't listen to me, and just wanted to keep his own setup secret for his own reasons I'm sure. What do I know anyway right? The truth in this matter is Giles knows his stuff, it speaks for itself, and you get what you pay for. I have a rebuilt 1.6 td bosch pump built to my specs, and it is AWESOME! I did some slight modifications but the inside is all Giles. I can only assume the same order of business for the stanadyne pumps. If there is a way to make dual pressure injectors Giles could do it.
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Don't fall into the kindergarten antics, just state what you have or want to and let it be. There is always someone with an opposite opinion. WELCOME to the site. I am interested as I have a very strongly modified DS pump and it has been a challenge to overcome some of the inherent issues. But then again I may not be as intelligent at modifying things as other people are so I may need some help overcoming my mental short falls.We do have experts here in every conceivable topic.
 
I have thought about this type of injector before as well on a Ford IDI. Do you think those internal springs from the AAZ injector could be used on the the 6.2/6.5 and Ford 6.9/7.3? That could be a possibility instead of swapping over the whole injector. Also do you think there can be any power gained from them? I bet since their is a pre-ignition event, you can dump a whole lot more fuel in their without having to worry about excessive smoke. It would help in such cases as when you bore out the nozzle a bit.

Also how do you guys mod regular injectors for more power? I know bigger nozzles work but what else can be done to get more fuel from the injectors?
 
Slim Shady said:
Don't fall into the kindergarten antics, just state what you have or want to and let it be. There is always someone with an opposite opinion. WELCOME to the site. I am interested as I have a very strongly modified DS pump and it has been a challenge to overcome some of the inherent issues. But then again I may not be as intelligent at modifying things as other people are so I may need some help overcoming my mental short falls.We do have experts here in every conceivable topic.
Click to expand...

What are the inherent issues you mentioned about the Ds4 other than the PMD? Also what is the max fuel that can be had from those? I keep hearing different stories about the max fuel. And Heath Diesel got 500hp from a supposedly stock pump. I'm not so sure about that though. There has to be some sort of internal work done to it I would think.

I would like to see what a Ds4 does on a Ford IDI as well. I know they spin the opposite was of a Ford Db2 but I do think it is possible to use the Db2 mounting like some of the guys are using to mount a Db4 on our engines. What all do you think? I also know the tuning will be a pain as well...

Sorry about the derail. I just think the topic of injection pumps goes hand in hand with injectors.
 
88 Ford said:
I have thought about this type of injector before as well on a Ford IDI. Do you think those internal springs from the AAZ injector could be used on the the 6.2/6.5 and Ford 6.9/7.3? That could be a possibility instead of swapping over the whole injector. Also do you think there can be any power gained from them? I bet since their is a pre-ignition event, you can dump a whole lot more fuel in their without having to worry about excessive smoke. It would help in such cases as when you bore out the nozzle a bit.

Also how do you guys mod regular injectors for more power? I know bigger nozzles work but what else can be done to get more fuel from the injectors?
Click to expand...

as I said previously, this is a little difficult to say, the pop pressures mus be calculated for timing and pressure, so the internals may or may not work, not to mention the dimension differences internally, these are two different injectors, that is not to say that it cannot be done, just maybe not like lego blocks like what you are thinking ex 305 heads on a 350sbc=better compression etc. your best bet would be to bounce some info off of GILES himself when he is in the shop.
 
88 Ford said:
What are the inherent issues you mentioned about the Ds4 other than the PMD? Also what is the max fuel that can be had from those? I keep hearing different stories about the max fuel. And Heath Diesel got 500hp from a supposedly stock pump. I'm not so sure about that though. There has to be some sort of internal work done to it I would think.

I would like to see what a Ds4 does on a Ford IDI as well. I know they spin the opposite was of a Ford Db2 but I do think it is possible to use the Db2 mounting like some of the guys are using to mount a Db4 on our engines. What all do you think? I also know the tuning will be a pain as well...

Sorry about the derail. I just think the topic of injection pumps goes hand in hand with injectors.
Click to expand...

some will say ol Bill is spoutin snake oil, however, I am a believer, he has something special going on, possibly a quad plunger head/rotor with bigger plungers and some other clever mods, but if he is, he ain't tellin nobody he still holds land speed records in his category and one just doesn't give up that kind of fame easily.
I guess that is what I was alluding to earlier.
 
Slim Shady said:
Don't fall into the kindergarten antics, just state what you have or want to and let it be. There is always someone with an opposite opinion. WELCOME to the site. I am interested as I have a very strongly modified DS pump and it has been a challenge to overcome some of the inherent issues. But then again I may not be as intelligent at modifying things as other people are so I may need some help overcoming my mental short falls.We do have experts here in every conceivable topic.
Click to expand...

ya got me, I'll calm down I promise, i been to a few bad churches in my time and the congregation doesn't really change much from one to the other.
in regards to your problems, I think that it is like anything else in automotive engineering, once you get outside of stock setup the more that has to change, for example just having more fuel doesn't mean anything if your timing is too retarded due to too much air in the fuel which effects the pressure at which the pump can push to the injectors, as well as other aspects like the temperature of the fuel ex. cooler fuel is more viscous, and will create higher pressures, as opposed to warmer fuel which will not pressurize as much because it is already warm, and will simply thin out even more. just having a great pump doesn't mean that you can disregard other stuff, your injectors are going to need to be calibrated to your pump, GILES suggests this, and to have your pump properly calibrated to your engine at operating temp, getting your rig in his shop is not a ploy to make more money but a way to properly calibrate your entire system. bench tests are just that, and can get you closem but operating under the hood of your beast is another animal entirely, so many forget this. tiny mod here means mods everywhere else. your lift pump may not be supplying as fast as your modded pump needs as well something to keep in mind.
 
without getting into the engineering too much, say your pilot injection goes at 2.5 BAR the droplets are not very fine, and act to cool the compressed gasses, as the combustion action is equalizing temperatures "think how you piss doesn't immediately mix with the bowl water" now the next pressure is at normal breaking pressure, but the spring is shorter so naturally less fuel is injected at a finer droplet size. Here is the interesting part, the compressed air has cooled and is able to accept more fuel because of the mixing of the hydrocarbons etc. and the ambient air as well as the flame will begin moving to create a stronger vortex to mix the fuel even more and the second shot will burn better more complete and less violently "hence quieter operation" and improved emissions" lower NOX and CO's this of course lowers your EGT's but the relationship between the two springs is very important, with pressure from the pump fixed due to mechanical timing this complicates things, which is why this is a more common and successful practice on di/common rail pressure systems. It gets even more complicated/confusing but these are the basics to give you some insight. In summary Recaro was a F-in genius.
 
NintendoKD said:
as I said previously, this is a little difficult to say, the pop pressures mus be calculated for timing and pressure, so the internals may or may not work, not to mention the dimension differences internally, these are two different injectors, that is not to say that it cannot be done, just maybe not like lego blocks like what you are thinking ex 305 heads on a 350sbc=better compression etc. your best bet would be to bounce some info off of GILES himself when he is in the shop.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I will get ahold of him. I am extremely curious about all the info he would share.
 
Please post back here after you talk to him. If I don't see something from you soon, I'll have to call myself!...might anyway...
 
sorry, still no word. I want to make this happen, I'm about to be a proud owner of a 92' 7.3 so I would really like these in a mech format.
 
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