• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Splayed Mains......

inline,

When are you going into production to the public?

I want to be first in line! :thumbsup:

I wish you lived in Texas, I would be at your house every Saturday with a case of your favorite beer to pick your brain. ):h
 
randomid25 said:
Any 6.2/6.5 specialist that i have ever researched or talked to say to stay away from splayed mains. Drilling extra holes in webs already prone to cracking can't improve block strength IMO. The best option for increasing the strength of the botom end is a Bedplate. A stud Girdle would be a cheaper option though not as rigid.
Click to expand...

That is along the lines of what I was thinking.....I would like to keep the extra holes in the block to a minimum........
 
Will, have you considered cross-bolting the mains??
Or is it in the plans already, I know the LS guys love the deep skirted block and cross bolted mains for a strong bottom end.
 
I did that to my 428 cj it was a factory option and I found the main caps. I would think a block with extended skirts and a crossbolt would be stout. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn't do that with the redesigned block.
 
mattthebrat said:
Will, have you considered cross-bolting the mains??
Or is it in the plans already, I know the LS guys love the deep skirted block and cross bolted mains for a strong bottom end.
Click to expand...

I considered it for a few minutes, but decided that a one piece billet bottom end would be the strongest. Waiting for the quote on this from the machine shop, should have quote by Wednesday.
 
Main cap walk

chevyinlinesix said:
....... Waiting for the quote on this from the machine shop, should have quote by Wednesday.....
Click to expand...

Me too! :eek: Be prepared. Get that quote yet?

If you need a way to absorb production costs versus a one-off piece, some of the 6.5 junkies here (I guess that counts me in) can buy a copy plus any 'design fees' you need. That is a nice piece you have designed. I would like to get a copy.

Our lives would have been easier if GM would have cast a skirted block with the cross-bolted mains.

I know, I know- the 6.5 was designed as a 200HP engine...:mad2:

And the Ford flathead V8 was designed as a 80HP (or something) V8 with only 3 main webs. Yikes. But that didn't stop the hotrodders from tinkering with them. I think somewhere along the line they (Ford or aftermarket) started casting blocks and cranks with the more traditional 5 mains.
 
Thanks 3500GMC! No they haven't got back with a quote yet, but I am going to stop there Monday, because I figured out a way to reduce machining costs a lot and need to inform them about it. I'm also going to give my engine builder/machinist a copy of the prints to see what he can do it for. I'm Likely going to get one shop to cut out the bulk material, then get my engine builder to do the rest.
 
Could a guy create a sand mould and cast his own iron girdle then have CNC finish machining done? Material costs could be a killer. There again not everybody has an iron furnace layin' around...

I'm thinking metallurgy here, expansion and contraction rates of dis-similar metals. Iron versus steel in your case, not to discredit, could potentially bind something? I do not know this for sure. The piece you are designing is pretty massive, maybe this won't be a problem.
 
You could make your own mold out of casting sand, be it water bonded, oil bonded, natural or synthetic, and you can in fact melt the iron enough to do this at home. There is loads of information on the internet about it.

There is several different materials you can make main caps out of, this material has an identical expansion rate as the cast iron in our blocks. I could have used aluminum, but expansion rate it great so you need different bearing clearances, something I didn't want to change. So yes, not using the right material with proper clearances could bind something up if it were bad enough.
 
When you get the quote maybe found out how much 10 of them would be :) Per unit cost could go down a lot, and might have some customers around these parts
 
IMHO the splayed main caps are a step in the right direction.

IF the block to be done does not have any cracks existing in the bottom end the outer main bolt holes are first filled with a solid thread stock. (Locktited in) and the "slug" machined flush with the block surface.

The new caps are then fit to the registers so that they sit down in the block "SNUG"
The "new" angled outer holes are drilled and tapped with the block in the milling machine.

Next the mainline must be done to assure that all the bores are straight with the "true" centerline of the block and cylinders and that the main bearing bores are looking at one another and are to the correct size.

The splayed setup ties the center mains into the heavy pan rail area instead of the weaker web portion of the block.

IMHO a good repair can be achieved with the Girdle and stud setup too.

The studs drastically reduce the spreading action of the threads in the block as the studs are inserted with loctite and then all the force is with the nuts on the stud and not the threads in the block.

The one piece girdle assembly like AMG has done and others here as great too but time consuming and costly.

The easy fix that takes only about an hour and a half to do (with proper tools) is IMHO the Lock and Stitch inserts.

The inserts actually pull the area together and strengthen it too. The insert is solid steel and allows the stock bolts to be used.

The stress that was originally placed in the web by the spreading action of the threads is no longer present.

All the above methods of repairing or upgrading the 6.2/6.5 blocks have merit and are good solid fixes for the issue at hand.

The Girdle is quick and easy as it the Lock and stitch inserts.

I decided on the inserts for My engine as this method has been in the field for quite a while and with great success.

The one piece girdle/cap assembly is by far the most desirable way to make a solid bottom end on these engines but the cost is definately high.

Not sure I would spend that amount of $$$ on an OLD GM block as a foundation.

The L&S inserts cost me about $9 each I charge $30 per hole to do the inserts with a recommendation that all six of the outers on the inner 3 caps be done while we have the tooling on the block.

Lots of great ideas have emerged over the years to fix the issues with these blocks.

Just a shame that GM did not get it right the first time and design the 6.5 with a DEEP skirt and cross bolted mains.

Could have been a great engine, but instead they chose to go on the cheap and, well as they say, the rest is history.


Great stuff guys.

Keep up the good work.

Missy
 
chevyinlinesix said:
Lots of room there, I think they just like to do the bare minimum.
Click to expand...

If they can get an engine to last its warranty, then mission accomplished. This goes for all car manufacterers. Imagine millions of engines, then adding say, another $300 on top for the girdle, :eek:
 
turbovanman said:
If they can get an engine to last its warranty, then mission accomplished. This goes for all car manufacterers. Imagine millions of engines, then adding say, another $300 on top for the girdle, :eek:
Click to expand...

Well, maybe they'd make their money back and then some if the diesel engine had a die-hard reputation. In fact, it would have changed the entire next generation. Perhaps so many dodge/ford diesel guys would have been steered to the GM diesel, as their blocks lasted the longest and barely ever cracked....

OH well.
 
Matt Bachand said:
Well, maybe they'd make their money back and then some if the diesel engine had a die-hard reputation. In fact, it would have changed the entire next generation. Perhaps so many dodge/ford diesel guys would have been steered to the GM diesel, as their blocks lasted the longest and barely ever cracked....

OH well.
Click to expand...

They don't think that way in manufacturing, driver is lowest cost to make, with a resonable reliability allowing for the largest profit at time of sale. I've been in the field service business for nearly 30 years, long term reliability is an after thought, remember programmed obsolescence means at some point you get to sell another new one, key is to identify just how long customers expect a product to last.

Industry standard is 100K miles, can they be made to last longer certainly, can mfrs build longevity into a price that new buyers will pay for, and if built too good will you be able to keep your production line flowing while waiting for better built vehicles to wear out.
 
Any news on that girdle, inlinesix? I'm interested in one, wallet allowing, when I pull my engine to fix the cam bearing that went bad. Just as well do it while it's out!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top