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RV Slide in pickup camper vs. Travel Trailer?

WarWagon

WarWagon

Well it hits on 7 of 8...
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Location
AZ
In the 3/4-1 Ton arena of course...

Two people and two cat sized dogs. Tour some of the USA while not "For Hire" and enjoy it more. Tired of "No Vacancy" and pay $1.00 for dirty restroom or pissing on the ground due to nothing around. Been places where there are no rooms or the last room's AC dies in the middle of the night. Let alone being 50 miles north of the middle of nowhere with nothing around where even the jackrabbits take a bag lunch with them.

Hotel and eat out has been the plan and not worked so well.

Looking at a week stay out of town off the bat and then weekends. But the truck needs to stay a daily driver during the week. So loading and unloading every weekend we go out. Or I could dedicate one truck to the camper and the other a DD.

No 4X4 off-road action planned. If so I would use Patch. But, I am leaning toward the Dodge for long trips due to MPG and reliability.

Neither truck is equipped for a slide in camper so additional cost.

In bed aux fuel tank or bigger main fuel tank is an option.

Thinking a Lance Camper or Used 28' 2004 Airstream trailer. See a couple 3 axle 34' older Airstream trailers out there, but, that is overkill and 2 extra tires on the ground. Frugal/cheap: I dislike dual rear wheels because of the extra rubber expense.

Have to work out the generator setup as campers have them but, not seeing many trailers with them. Summer AC off grid is a must. Who wants to be tied up to a RV campsite all the time. I do have the old heavy 1988 4.5 KW Homelite.

Last I may rent out the RV due to Country Thunder, Barret Jackson, NASCAR, Superbowl, and other events here. But this is for my enjoyment so maybe not a good idea to do that.
 
For slide in, finding them with bathroom is harder. Not being a dually with slide in, the crosswinds will mess with you more. Invest in quality electric camper jacks when the time comes to replace whatever comes with it.

There is no added registration costs, and you can drive any lane if you travel to places like Cali that restrict your lane and speed options if you have a trailer.

That said I now have a 14' single axle. My wife, 15 &10 year old & myself fit ok in it. When we are out camping, beach, etc. there is not a ton of play time spent inside it, so we don't need a ton of space. Just two adults would be fine in 10-15' IMO on 2 week trips.

On the generator, use what you have for now,hopefully- and do the math on a used Honda inverter generator. If you can find a Coleman pup 9500 btu, an eu2000i will run it. Otherwise 2x2000eui or a 3000eui will run a regular rv ac unit. The Honda saves SO MUCH fuel it is ridiculous. I have a Onan 6500 with freshly redone generator side and great engine I'll probably never use again.

I have figured out most people end up with keep up with the jones on trailers. I made the mistake when I was selling my 2 axle and looking at a 3 axle. Don't go down that pricey road. Simple and low maintanence= more enjoyable and more frequent vacations.
 
Don't like single axle trailers... if I ever towed with a dully I may never go back. The campers I am looking at would have a bathroom and hang off the rear of the truck. Real close inspection of what the truck can carry vs. the camper actual loaded weight.

http://www.tomscamperland.com/2001-Lance-1130-Mesa-AZ-85378/5712070

Looking at quality as some of the RV junk on the market is just that. Looked at some NEW Prime Time Crusader's and Pop up TV was busted stuck down and knob for window blind string caught me sitting down in a recliner - ow!
 
For the most part 25 foot is the max for some campground, or at least is the point where you get limited on what spots you can fit in. With our 25 footer we could always find a place and get in and out easy, with our 32 footer its a different story. Also I reccomend staying away from slides. The extra room is great, but the rust, rot, extra drive and motor and such to break can be a pita. After looking at ALOT of tt, pre 99 HOLIDAY RAMBLER ALUMALITES and FREE SPIRITS, are great buys. Bigfoot also made a really nice HEAVY DUTY unit, as well as a few others. Look for trailers with metal or fiberglass roofs imho, most rubber roofs are glued down to cardboard anymore,, and are more trouble than they're worth. Our 97 HR has an aluminum roof with a pvc cap to reduce noise, and is one TOUGH roof.

As to generators, a honda eu2000 can start most 13,500 btu roof airs with the eco throttle off, and many say with the addition of a hard start capacitor they can start the ac on eco throttle at low elevations. I know my eu3000 starts my 15,000 btu roof air no problems on eco throttle without a hard start capacitor installed. The downside to the eu3000 is it is HEAVY weighing in around 175 pounds full of fuel and such. The downside to the eu2000 is its small fuel tank, but it has a built in fuel pump and an add on fuel cap with a connection to an external tank so it can pull fuel in while running. They also make a new eu3000 light weight model, but its $$$$.$$, and mostly plastic for all the housing with a smaller fuel tank and no fuel pump. And yamaha makes a 2400 watt inverter generator just for 13,500 btu roof airs now with a decent size tank, and semi lightweight.
 
So I am known to ruin hitches and tweak the frame on a 3/4 ton truck around the hitch. So I reluctantly draw a big red line through Airstream's tin plated krap! :mad:

I went to look up a cute 2006 Airstream International CCD, 22 foot as I didn't know what CCD was. You can imagine my surprise when this century Airstream 22' frame failures came up. NO THANKS!!! Esp with my 3/4 and 1 ton that will tear up weak things. (Fwack a Haulmark is stronger as it was dishing out the hitch issues... and all I did was seriously abuse that trailer. I doubt the next owner ever got the diesel oil spray paint job off from the oil cooler explosion. )

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/frame-failure-22-foot-international-48105.html
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Looked at a couple airstreams, and i was seriously disappointed to say the least for the kind of money they wanted for them.
Click to expand...

Y'all don't know where to look ;-) But agree that anything less than 10 years old is still expensive. More on that in a bit . . .



Toward the camper vs travel trailer, going small is nice, but if it is going to get steady use, having extra room for rainy days is worth the weight penalty. My personal minimum expectations are a commode, stand-up shower, and full galley.

If the final decision is a camper slide-in, consider a pop-up roof model like what Leroy has as it will reduce the parasitic drag.


For Travel Trailers, strongly suggest going with a 'low-rider' like Ferm's Holiday Rambler or an Airstream; also, two axles. Toward the low-rider, they simply tow a *lot* better than one built by a lazy manufacturer whom puts everything above the frame. Toward at least twin axles, this is a risk mitigation factor as it will allow blowing a tire with minimal damage. Ok, sure, blowing a tire on a low-rider will still cause damage (don't ask how I know), but the repairs are typically a much lower level of effort compared to what can happen with a single axle. Only real penalty to a dual axle TT is at the toll booth as many charge by the axle which around here amounts to *way* more than double the car fee, so plan travel routing carefully.

Regarding the triple axle Airstreams, those typically are in the 10K# range with a hefty tongue weight, so plan the tow rig accordingly.


While not mentioned, for two people a ~25' 5'er may prove a good fit. IIRC, 5'ers are a lot easier to back than a TT but the TT gets better fuel economy.


X-2 on leaning toward solid roofs and not rubber. Rubber roofs need regular care and it is difficult to find one 10 years old that does not show water damage from a leak.


X-2 on not going with a slide-out as (including Ferm's notations about maintenance) they tend to add ~1K# just for a little extra leg room. When retracted, they tend to seriously cramp the cabin space.


Owners Group is another factor to consider. My brother wanted me to go-in on a TT but I balked at his selections due to lack of an owner's group. You do not have to join, but if you do, some of them have free 'courtesy parking' across the country (only members get the list), plenty of knowledgeable people for fixing the oddities, and trips that you simply pay to attend.


In terms of Airstreams, overall they have good bones and keep their value. In terms of price, start with ones at least 20 years old as that is about the point when then they get reasonable. Consider looking at 80's models as they are very affordable and frequently just need a few updates which are commonly found in a big box store. Another lesser known path is the Argosy line which tends to weigh less than the Airstream counterpart. If you want a link to an aggregator site, PM me. Definitely not knocking other brands (and Holiday Rambler is another great way to go).


Toward generators, consider something that is capable of at least 30 Amp (steady), 120 / 240 volts, and meets national forestry noise limits. Reasoning is that not only is it fully capable of the handling the RV, but it can also power the house if necessary (and not peeve-off the neighbors). And by the way, will need to run & load the generator at least every 6 months. Another thing with generators is that not all of them have a rating to operate in the rain, so plan on having a shelter available.


A factor not previously mentioned: the gas bottles. They have a life to them (IIRC 15 years from new) and after that they need inspections every 5 years. Inspection prices around me are ridiculous and pretty much force ditching the bottle and buying a new one. If the RV has the horizontal OPD exempt bottles, in theory they are still serviceable, but in reality it is near impossible to find anybody to inspect them. Point of stressing the inspection intervals is that refill stations are getting strict on making sure the bottle is current, and in the case of the horizontal OPD exempt bottles, outright PITA to refill even *if* they have a current inspection and warning label.


Commonly overlooked item is tire rating. I go with one higher load rating than what the manufacturer recommends. For my 6,500# dual axle rig, I am using load E's for a couple reasons. Primary is that if one fails, the surviving tire is rated to easily handle the remaining weight. Secondary is that I can actually feel the difference in the lower tire pressures as the trailer will have more of a pull against the truck.

Speaking of tires (and am sure that I am risking insulting an expert), plan on immediately replacing the RV's tires as they are only good for up to 7 years (5 if the trailer sat a lot). Ok, sure, they might have *lots* of tread left on them, but they *will* disintegrate or blow if they are past their age (not mileage).


Toward speed limits, (as Will mentioned) there are states that cap speed for any type of trailer configuration to 55 mph. In addition to that, am seeing where the trailer tire manufacturers are stating a max speed of 55 mph for their tires. Ok, sure, this is possibly a CYA thing (and I happen to know of one un-named person who does not exactly stick to that limit ;) ), but point is to plan on lower speeds. Personally, I stick with 55 mph (even in my DI rig) to cut down on fuel and wear; also, going 65 mph vs 55 mph really does not save much time in comparison.


Prior to buying anything, recommend taking it on a test drag (including minimum 55 mph highway) as not all TT's are equal when it comes to towing manners. Some are absolute pigs to tow. Low-riders tend to tow great due to lower center of gravity and reduced sail area.


Other factors to consider for the tow vehicle. Active Suspension or air bags. Wheel spacers in the rear (if not already in place) will help a good bit with overall stability. Plan on rigging the tow vehicle to allow for complete loss of the trailer brakes.


For comparison, with all the mods in my Sig (plus Active Suspension, load leveling hitch, 2" rear wheel spacers, and just one anti-sway bar), my 33' 6,500# TT is rock solid on the hook. And by solid I mean that when I am doing 55 mph and a semi passes me (going 65 - 70 mph) I cannot even feel the semi's bow wave. Only regret I have is the 4L80E ;)
 
Very true.

On average though, rough terrain is not part of the engineering design; nor are road manners or ease of towing. Slapping together a glam-o-mobile for least effort is.
 
55 MPH will kill you via being used as a speed bump out West. 60-62 is the norm in CA where they have the 55 MPH limits.

Most trailer tires are speed rated to 65 MPH. (Adding 10 PSI to some allows 75MPH.) So being able to do 65 MPH minimum is a requirement. Doing 55 MPH in a 75 MPH or Utah's 80+ MPH speed limit zone is suicide.

Life of trailer tires out here is around 30K miles till they show the air in daily use and replace at 5 years old max or when you see weather cracking. Had a worn spare separate and blow up on the trailer's spare carrier in the repair shop. Had to buy some employees new underwear. Their front porch was covered in defective Hi Run brand tires. I also balance the trailer tires. Vibration from separation becomes a giveaway. Further a blowout on the trailer shows up as higher transmission temp on the freeway. And bikers passing us giving us the wave without all fingers extended. (Flats on trailers simply leave the bead walls on the rim and the rest of the tire in chunks on the road.)

We even used bias ply trailer tires at one point and found they run hotter.

I will have to look at the load range E LT tires I have seen on some trailers out here. One used trailer had some Bridgestone Duravis LT tires on it. The LT tires appear to be better quality than Communist made ST tires.
 
Light truck tires will easily go (and are rated) at common highway speeds. The rub is that they do not have turn-out rating for the sidewall torque that a trailer (especially multi axle) will put them through.

If the end result is a single axle trailer, LT's will work. For a multi axle trailer personally I'd stick with ST's.


And Yes, manufacturers are now showing of 55 mph for their trailer (ST) rated tires (or alt least the ones I have purchased over the last 5 years). Naturally, if there is a tire manufacturer with higher speed ratings, go for it :) If the tire rating is actually 55 mph, going faster does not necessarily translate to a violation toward laws of physics, but it might make the difference should it get in the way of Man's laws ;)

And also, Yes, am familiar with driving on highways with speeds all the way to unlimited while working with faster and slower drivers. It is just part of driving responsibly when others around me do not necessarily share the same goal of responsibility.
 
Came down to Arctic Fox 992 vs. Lance 975. Campers. No generator available on trailers unless ordered that way. (AF did have prep options with out the actual generator itself installed. Lance trailers did not.) Only reason to go with a trailer would have been a couch/chairs with foot rests to raise ones legs.

So looking at the AF the sales rep stopped by and said the Lance reps were there for the Grand Opening Day. (AF did not show up to the party - They should have...) Didn't know it was their Grand Opening. So the Lance rep came over and pointed out a few things they thought they did better. Then we went over to the Lance 975 and went over it in extreme detail - It's a new floor plan for 2016. Tips like store the bread in the microwave, close all the windows and doors and then open the one you want with the Fantastic fan running to get a breeze. This negated the noisy reversible fan the AF has over the bed by popping the Lance windows open and running the Fantastic fan over the living area. Further they noted the sewer vents were on the roof and a fan sucking air in on the roof could suck those odors in - RV code came into play on the Lance where they couldn't do it as the fan would be too close to the vents on theirs. The thermostat wasn't on the AC unit in the Lance. Radio was simpler in the Lance rather than a complicated fragile touch screen in the AF. (One button in the Lance to shut off the external speakers and never did figure it out on the AF.)

Fit and Finish on the AF was #2 to Lance. The bathroom door wouldn't close and the under dinette drawers had fit and finish issues. The Lance only had a wavy shower wall liner, the bed was easier to get into and dinette cushions were more comfortable, but smaller bathroom, and less kitchen cabinets, but, latching cabinet doors on them that will not pop open.

The AF has two 30# propane where the Lance only has two 20# propane tanks. Aka ~24 hours of generator on 20# propane. I will be bringing some extra tanks along.

I was prepared to see what they would do on the AF 992. The Lance is more expensive than the AF.

End of the month. Check.
Grand Opening. Check.
Lance Regional Sales rep and Factory rep onsite. 'We won't be undersold.' Check.
Printout of AF 'blow out price' from some Northern dealer to price match. Check.
1 Hour past closing time. Check.
Employee and family Grand Opening party going on. Check.

I got $10,100.00 discounted off the price of the Lance after breaking some arms. I suspect Lance was doing some dealer rebates and/or they sold enough to just want the volume over profit.

"What truck are you going to put this on?"

I point to Patch.

The look on the two Lance reps face, the salesman's face, and the Finance fellow face was PRICELESS! :confused::eek::wtf::facepalm:

Seriously it's going on the Dodge.

http://www.lancecamper.com/truck-campers/975/#overview
 

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Congratulations! Glad to see that it has a rear awing (or at least available). With that 3 way fridge, time to upgrade the cables going to the bed. And stock-up on lube for the slide.

Fantastic fans are nice. Only downside is that they are under new owners whom no longer provide a lifetime warantee; IIRC it is just 3 years now.


I looked into camper inserts a while ago and would have loved to get my hands on either an Avion or Holiday Rambler.
 
Will L. said:
I have figured out most people end up with keep up with the jones on trailers.
Click to expand...

Come on Will, You know I am one of Those Neighbors they pass laws over! Like no upside down Oldsmobiles in the front yard being used for parts. Gotta keep the project truck in a garage. Even landscapers have confused looks when I rattle by in the Rat Rod. Something about landscapers having better looking and/or newer trucks. No that's not a serious sunburn on my neck...

"Increase your property value - donate now to paint this truck."

Seriously it was time to go new to have a reliable RV to camp with and enjoy - not fix all the time. Just big enough to be comfortable and meet the requirements.
 
Just saw this post. Good choice on the slide in camper.
I really like ours. Its a pop up, but is as optioned as I've seen for the style and vintage. Its a 95 Jayco with toilet, shower, fridge, heater, a/c, kitchen, queen bed, table/bed, plenty of storage.
Can park in a normal space, less than 25' (not by much). Only thing it does not have is a generator.
One thing I don't like about a slide in is if you want to go somewhere you have to "tear down camp".

Im going to retire in 10 years so Im going to the RV show next week to look at the RVs available now and that I be able to afford in 10 years when the ones I'll be looking at are 10 years old :)
Really interested in a Mercedes/Sprinter Diesel Winnebago View or the Thor Citation (like the Thor better so far). They are about $100,000 now by 2026 should be around $45-50K.
 
Don't wait to "retire". I look at my parent's health and their saying of "The Golden Years aren't so Golden." Dad is badly suffering due to Agent Orange exposure from his 3 tours of Vietnam.

So we have decided to travel NOW at the expense of things paid off for retirement. Aka travel now while we are physically able to climb in and out of an RV. I am here to tell you it's a difficult plan to accept/change. However "bad health" will take away things like a paid off home so I would rather have the memories of RV travel...

Some of our friends (worth ~1 million) have a paid off home and still are too frugal to enjoy life even with good health nearing 70 years old- they just can't change gears from saving/frugal to travel and enjoyment.

We have 4 places circled on a big USA map we already want to go to.
 
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