ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
What's your TDCO at?
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Replacing Rocker Buttons
- Thread starter Long Brown Train
- Start date
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
last I looked it was -1.58 but I have swapped in my diy tuned chip since then and havn't looked at it. the thought just occurred to me wondering if the relearn needs to be done again if changing the prom chip.
but even before I had set the TDCO that high it was noisy just cant remember the difference. lol
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I'll do a video recording of it starting up here is a bit. I know diesels are noisy but I think mine ether has some valve train issues or something trying to rear it's head lately
Will L.
Well-Known Member
No, not proven 300k miles. You are assuming 300k miles is a given because some make it that far. I was trying to say earlier and will be more direct: MANY fail at the 150k mile mark, and some sooner.
On your truck, you are about to pull your valve cover because MAYBE you broke one by accident and didn’t notice you did when it happened. You found the pin and wondered- is this a fresh broken one, or is it one that a previous owner left when he replaced broken ones in the past- right? Why would there be an old one around possibly? Because they fail and need replacement. It happens quite often.
Just because you have not yet experienced one breaking, don’t assume they never do.
Not being rude, but it’s kinda obvious that you haven’t put on half a million miles in a 6.5 or you would know this is an annoying point of failure. Some people are buying the roller rocker set up for more power. Almost no one buys them for mpg gains because the resistance improvement isn’t big enough to pay for their cost until you are 100k miles into it. So why do so many people buy them? Because so many people had button, arm, pushrod, valve cover damage because of these. I would buy rollers hands down if I could afford every upgrade I want- but only have so much $. $650 plus $40 shipping- vs $40 buying locally and a few hours- that, I and most others can afford.
Like I said- your current engine is high mileage and in no way is going to go for another 150,000 miles. So just slapping in new plastic ones is the right answer most likely- especially because you already have the next engine to drop in and run when this one bites it.
But that engine that is just sitting and waiting for the install day- it might be worth opening up and making certain changes so it goes a long time without failure. If you only hope to get 100k from the next one- maybe leave it alone. If you want a lot more, pull it apart and make improvements now while it is convenient.
Doing little things like this can be diy projects that take very little money and some free time. New bearings, gapless rings, etc extend that future miles could be worth it to you. Maybe not, you make the call. Same for eliminating these plastic rocker pins that many of us know do break and cause damage.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
Took a video clip and connected my laptop to check codes and get a snapshot on the TDCO reading. looks like I am gonna start a new thread due some things I am seeing... showed code 36 for a historical code and the TDCO offset shows -0.44
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
ok posted new thread here ..... https://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/valve-train-noise-with-first-diy-tune-installed.49954/
Big T
Well-Known Member
I suspect that the found valve retainer button was from when I did the driver's side and probably placed on battery, then knocked off to fall down to that shelf at the front of the fender.
I'm at 232K on this truck and would like to see 400K.
Colby's is at 293K and I would like to see it also go to 400K,
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Something I don’t see in your list for the two rigs is harmonic balancers.
I am hoping you did them already and about due for being done again if you didn’t do fluidamprs already.
Stock balancers on a hard worked truck usually pop the crankshaft/ block around 225-250 and easy driven ones around 300-325. We learned same thing most other shops did- just do them everywhere 100k miles. And you do the drive pulley at same time. If they haven’t been done jump on that asap. Search history on this forum and I am sure you will find the broken crank shafts and broken main cap webs. The balancer isthe biggest contributing factor you can control without rebuilding engine.
Conservatively-AC Delco is good for 100k, doorman 30k, fluidampr basically forever. Leroy’s billet pulley is obviously for ever. Under no circumstances would I ever double that. One and a half that is where fine cracking in block starts.
keep an eye on the blow by. All that extra junk in oil adds to wear besides the lost oil out the tailpipe. Cleaner oil starts really counting at 325k. Consider the better oils or additives - this sloppy engine is not a Toyota. Using those expensive oils means catch can to save that oil pays for itself.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for your ds4 collection. Thats a lot of miles - you really better have top notch water separator and the pressure gauges in place on both. iirc didn’t you already loose one ip to water?
I am hoping you did them already and about due for being done again if you didn’t do fluidamprs already.
Stock balancers on a hard worked truck usually pop the crankshaft/ block around 225-250 and easy driven ones around 300-325. We learned same thing most other shops did- just do them everywhere 100k miles. And you do the drive pulley at same time. If they haven’t been done jump on that asap. Search history on this forum and I am sure you will find the broken crank shafts and broken main cap webs. The balancer isthe biggest contributing factor you can control without rebuilding engine.
Conservatively-AC Delco is good for 100k, doorman 30k, fluidampr basically forever. Leroy’s billet pulley is obviously for ever. Under no circumstances would I ever double that. One and a half that is where fine cracking in block starts.
keep an eye on the blow by. All that extra junk in oil adds to wear besides the lost oil out the tailpipe. Cleaner oil starts really counting at 325k. Consider the better oils or additives - this sloppy engine is not a Toyota. Using those expensive oils means catch can to save that oil pays for itself.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for your ds4 collection. Thats a lot of miles - you really better have top notch water separator and the pressure gauges in place on both. iirc didn’t you already loose one ip to water?
Big T
Well-Known Member
I replaced the HB and pulley on Colby’s ‘94 with AC Delco units when I changed out the timing gears and chain last summer, then the failed IP swap. Water pump was reused as it had only 50K miles on it and it is HO with spin on fan mount. Front of the engine is remarkably clean. Will consider adding a Pro Vent with catch bottle. He’s using this as a commute vehicle and kid hauler. He has a 2018 F250 Super Duty with 6.7 diesel for towing.
The ‘99 has a Fluidampner HB. Lost the IP due to water, but that was my fault transferring diesel from a boat unfiltered. It was already on
It’s 2nd IP, now it’s 3rd. Have not been towing much of late.
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dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
Speaking of the HB. I got curious and looked on RA. That’s not a bad price for the GM one!
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
They don’t show a GM replacement pulley though. How is this brand if I were to get one?
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
It seems that I have maybe used some bearings by that brand, SKP. Those bearings seemed of good quality.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
BigT- cool on the balancers. Nothing is a guarantee but that is huge.
On the Delco balancer- I am still WAY LEARY of RA because of the known knock off stuff that came from there. So if it is a real one- great price. I would call 1-800-acdelco and verify they are selling them to RA.
On that SKP - SKIP it. If someone was on money hurting status then ok. But you are replacing it in 30k miles.
On the Delco balancer- I am still WAY LEARY of RA because of the known knock off stuff that came from there. So if it is a real one- great price. I would call 1-800-acdelco and verify they are selling them to RA.
On that SKP - SKIP it. If someone was on money hurting status then ok. But you are replacing it in 30k miles.
Big T
Well-Known Member
AC Delco is not selling them to RA. This does not mean they are not AC a Delco parts, but AC Delco cannot verify them. AC Delco bought off Amazon are legit.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
I am not sure on this.
I believe that RA might do some parts stores buy outs, auto dealers that have parts that have been setting on the shelves and the auto parts dealers wants to get them moved out in a one time batch.
I dont know that to be the truth but it seems I may have read that from a truthful source.
Big T
Well-Known Member
Just relaying what AC Delco said when I called about buying their injection pump from Rock Auto: they cannot verify legitimacy of the parts because RA does not buy from them. They steered me to Amazon for the IP a which was the same pice, with no shipping cost and no core charge which is easily $125 savings. So it was a better deal off Amazon and I know that I have a two year warranty that AC Delco will honor.
I’m ok ordering parts like tie rods, ball joints off RA.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
When I spoke to AC Delco about problem window motors and regulators I got from RA, Delco guy said they had several in a pile they knew were knock off. I had a EP158 lift pump that I was planning on cutting open because it failed really fast. I also had just re- replaced an ops on my nephews truck. All parts from RA. RA accepted back the window regulators and replaced them, but I was still waiting to get ahold or an return number for the other stuff. This is when they very first stopped using live people you could talk to just by calling. So I sent the motors, liftpump, ops all to AC Delco. That same guy called me back in 1 week. ALL OF IT WAS KNOCK OFF. They said they don’t normally replace it, normally don’t accept it direct even (most companies don’t- you have to return to where you bought it). But They were building a case against them and another against Amazon. So they asked for an affidavit and receipt copies, shipping paperwork, screenshot copy of orders, everything I had. Being pissed about the KO parts compiled with poor customer service- I was happy to oblige.
I mentioned some of it back then but they asked me to not share all details incase it went in front of a judge, they didn’t want anything to wreck the case. So I mentioned a little ofenough that readers here knew there was knock off parts from there. I remember repeating what AC Delco told me then: There was only 1 authorized dealer online- it was on Amazon, and had a name of AC Delco- but was a specific spelling- they had a direct lawsuit to one ‘store’ on Amazon using ac delco asthe name but something was different about spelling or title slightly. They won that lawsuit against that person but in the end Amazon was not guilty because they are were just the platform where other ‘stores’ do the marketing from.
The biggest issue with Rockauto is shared with Bosch glow plugs. The reason I tore apart my engine is because a glowplug failed, broke off with maybe only a couple thousand miles on it destroyed my piston. Talking to Bosch- they too were trying to build a lawsuit against Amazon and Rock Auto. My plugs were purchased within the 1 year warranty timeframe when I was trying to deal with Rockauto. But with no results there I called Bosch after the AC Delco conversion, but it took a couple weeks before getting the return call from Bosch. My 1 year had now expired- even though I was willing to sign an affidavit the plug had failed months before. So bosch would not even accept the bad plug for inspection. I was basically pleading with them to at least look at and not even take my name- Because I knew a bunch of people were buying these plugs at my recommendation and if they is a problem I wanted them to check their production line before tons of people suffer from engine damage.
I dont remember if many people here had issues but several guys on the hummer forum had failures of the tabs falling off. One of those guys had 6/8 tabs come off, and one element that wiggled. He got them sent to bosch and they sent him a new set for free but Bosch said 100% they were knock offs. He posted on hummer forum a screenshot of his purchase from Rockauto.
Talking to both Delco and Bosch about the knock off- they said packaging is identical looking. Most the parts are identical looking even with the proper labeling on the part. Delco- For a while they were wondering if workers were stealing qc rejected parts and selling them. But they did some metallurgy test on some parts and found they were completely knock offs. Be warned me and I shared the warning here and hummer forum- ONLY buy from authorized resllers, call 1 800 acdelco and verify with them before believing a place is authorized because many advertise they are and are not. That kind of thing happens more often than many realize. Rockauto had on their list of suppliers AC Delco. Someone here posted the picture. I would call delco and verify, I just called when I started typing this, but they aren’t open 24 hours and it’s 5:34 am pacific so I can’t verify right now. But last time I called AC Delco said Rockauto ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT an authorized dealer, even though Rockauto advertising looks as if they are.
Yall are big boys and girls, and maybe frogs or whatever people identify as nowdays. Make your own decision, I just try to help people with knowledge I have. Wether it is how to trouble shoot something not working or stop them from bolting problems onto their truck. I see Rockauto as a bigger problem than steaksauce or ss diesel instafail companies because the last two aren’t mega millionaires from it- RA could afford to hire a couple research people into their operation and find out which of their remote suppliers are sending them fake crap- but they don’t. They put their profit over our safety or well being.
BigT, it’s obvious to all of us you are financially ok even if those brand new rocker buttons fail today and destroy your engine. But many are not in that scenario. Too much of my life has been spent on that ragged edge where one new part failing can reek havoc. Can a broken ball joint on the freeway cause havoc?
I mentioned some of it back then but they asked me to not share all details incase it went in front of a judge, they didn’t want anything to wreck the case. So I mentioned a little ofenough that readers here knew there was knock off parts from there. I remember repeating what AC Delco told me then: There was only 1 authorized dealer online- it was on Amazon, and had a name of AC Delco- but was a specific spelling- they had a direct lawsuit to one ‘store’ on Amazon using ac delco asthe name but something was different about spelling or title slightly. They won that lawsuit against that person but in the end Amazon was not guilty because they are were just the platform where other ‘stores’ do the marketing from.
The biggest issue with Rockauto is shared with Bosch glow plugs. The reason I tore apart my engine is because a glowplug failed, broke off with maybe only a couple thousand miles on it destroyed my piston. Talking to Bosch- they too were trying to build a lawsuit against Amazon and Rock Auto. My plugs were purchased within the 1 year warranty timeframe when I was trying to deal with Rockauto. But with no results there I called Bosch after the AC Delco conversion, but it took a couple weeks before getting the return call from Bosch. My 1 year had now expired- even though I was willing to sign an affidavit the plug had failed months before. So bosch would not even accept the bad plug for inspection. I was basically pleading with them to at least look at and not even take my name- Because I knew a bunch of people were buying these plugs at my recommendation and if they is a problem I wanted them to check their production line before tons of people suffer from engine damage.
I dont remember if many people here had issues but several guys on the hummer forum had failures of the tabs falling off. One of those guys had 6/8 tabs come off, and one element that wiggled. He got them sent to bosch and they sent him a new set for free but Bosch said 100% they were knock offs. He posted on hummer forum a screenshot of his purchase from Rockauto.
Talking to both Delco and Bosch about the knock off- they said packaging is identical looking. Most the parts are identical looking even with the proper labeling on the part. Delco- For a while they were wondering if workers were stealing qc rejected parts and selling them. But they did some metallurgy test on some parts and found they were completely knock offs. Be warned me and I shared the warning here and hummer forum- ONLY buy from authorized resllers, call 1 800 acdelco and verify with them before believing a place is authorized because many advertise they are and are not. That kind of thing happens more often than many realize. Rockauto had on their list of suppliers AC Delco. Someone here posted the picture. I would call delco and verify, I just called when I started typing this, but they aren’t open 24 hours and it’s 5:34 am pacific so I can’t verify right now. But last time I called AC Delco said Rockauto ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT an authorized dealer, even though Rockauto advertising looks as if they are.
Yall are big boys and girls, and maybe frogs or whatever people identify as nowdays. Make your own decision, I just try to help people with knowledge I have. Wether it is how to trouble shoot something not working or stop them from bolting problems onto their truck. I see Rockauto as a bigger problem than steaksauce or ss diesel instafail companies because the last two aren’t mega millionaires from it- RA could afford to hire a couple research people into their operation and find out which of their remote suppliers are sending them fake crap- but they don’t. They put their profit over our safety or well being.
BigT, it’s obvious to all of us you are financially ok even if those brand new rocker buttons fail today and destroy your engine. But many are not in that scenario. Too much of my life has been spent on that ragged edge where one new part failing can reek havoc. Can a broken ball joint on the freeway cause havoc?
Big T
Well-Known Member
I bought the rocker buttons from O’Reilly. They were original Melling parts.
The MOOG parts I have gotten from RockAuto were legit and have held up. Same with the brake parts.
I think replacing the rocker buttons was appropriate for this '99 engine and it's current stage in life. Throwing a $650 set of roller rockers on it, not seeing the value. I did throw a Fluidampner HB on it when I first did the timing chain & gears and water pump on the '99. which was about 70K miles ago. I can see catastrophic failure from a bad HB. Point being, yes I have the money but I also sensibly measure the benefit of what I'm putting on it.
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Big T
Well-Known Member
For example, if I was building off of a fresh P400, I would install roller rockers.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
That is probably WHY you have the money- you are smart enough to not blow through it all like I do!
Like me trying to justify those $400 headlights the other day. My excitement calmed down and I will not be buying them. When the cash is in my hand- I am faster than quick draw McGraw. Yes, i want those roller rockers but can’t justify them. If Leroy had a store I would have walked into when they first came out- I will admit they would be in my possession. I purposely have my wife do all online purchases for me and have to remind her to make me justify economically to her the purchase. Because before I met her- man you guys should have seen my 69 Camaro smoke the tires at 100 mph and literally pop the back window out from the bass.
The Hummer was bought after the crew cab 3500 almost slid off the side of a mountain with her and our oldest boy still in diapers about 18-19 years ago. My buddy that ya ked the kid out of the truck at the edge of the cliff later that day says “Will, if you had that Hummer you keep talking about, this wouldn’t have happened!” Trying to harass me. My wife found the Hummer for sale in the paper- not me. Does that sale fall under “fear of loss?” Hahaha
Like me trying to justify those $400 headlights the other day. My excitement calmed down and I will not be buying them. When the cash is in my hand- I am faster than quick draw McGraw. Yes, i want those roller rockers but can’t justify them. If Leroy had a store I would have walked into when they first came out- I will admit they would be in my possession. I purposely have my wife do all online purchases for me and have to remind her to make me justify economically to her the purchase. Because before I met her- man you guys should have seen my 69 Camaro smoke the tires at 100 mph and literally pop the back window out from the bass.
The Hummer was bought after the crew cab 3500 almost slid off the side of a mountain with her and our oldest boy still in diapers about 18-19 years ago. My buddy that ya ked the kid out of the truck at the edge of the cliff later that day says “Will, if you had that Hummer you keep talking about, this wouldn’t have happened!” Trying to harass me. My wife found the Hummer for sale in the paper- not me. Does that sale fall under “fear of loss?” Hahaha