Regarding the recent supposed Unbiased tester of the ATT and HX clone

[Slim Shady]

The person and persons doing the unbiased testing of the ATT or A-team Turbo at another site have a personal agenda and the information they have posted is untrue, they have fabricated lies, and used manipulation to make their case. Please realize the ATT is the ONLY true turbo replacement kit for our 6.5 diesel and is the only time tested replacement turbo next to the original gm eight. The price is less than 800 dollars for most with shipping, NOT the 1000 plus that Rob Zombie (truck stop member name) or Subclatter (member name) at the other place has posted as lies.


I stand behind my product and have never hidden my identity from anyone, unlike the unbiased tester does. If a man is not forthright enough to stand behind his results with his reputation, then how can we believe anything from that person.

Respectfully

 

[Burning oil]

X2. Thank you.

 

[Slim Shady]

I have never slammed their product they sell and you very rarely hear people raving about the HX clone. Just 2 small for doing any real towing. The Unbiased tester also switches between the HxII which is the small housing which is slightly bigger than the gm turbo and the larger hx clone. So you never know which turbo he is talking about since Robzombie AKA Subclatter the unbiased tester mixes data from both and talks about both as if they were one. I have never slammed their turbo but Subclatter AKA RobZombie the forum stalker does that on a regular basis about the A-Team Turbo as a supposedly unbiased tester.

I stand behind my product and have never hidden my identity from anyone, unlike the unbiased tester does. If a man is not forthright enough to stand behind his results with his reputation, then how can we believe anything from that person.

Does anyone actually know who this unbiased tester called RobZombie / AKA Subclatter is? I bet not, forum stalkers cover their identity pretty good. And the place that hosts the forum stalker should be ashamed of letting untruths and forum stalkers have free reign, it shows just how bad the site has gotten and how poor and nonfactual the site information is "in my opinion". If you need drama to pull people to your site it is not a good place to get any information "In My Opinion".

 

[NVW]

Until I read this thread I hadn't been back to the Place in a long time. I don't miss it.

Dennis, the ATT is still performing.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Until I read this thread I hadn't been back to the Place in a long time. I don't miss it.

Dennis, the ATT is still performing.

And after there recent mod power trip(over the supposed "unbiased" turbo test), I won't go back. I have no need to go to a site where I get threatened of being banned when I wasn't a part of something, hadn't posted in that thread for a week, and my last post simply said I was out and don't respond to me anymore and I won't post in his thread anymore as the thread was obviously NOT about what it was started for. I'm sure I won't be missed, as a memeber over there put it "I wasn't wanted and was hated by many as I was a know it all". So let them have fun with there tech content, hopefully members learn how to search the archives better to learn.

Sorry about the derail slim, back to ATT talk. Hope the truck is still plugging along good with your custom tune.

 

[Cumminsfever]

I thought the thread started good. But it soon became apparent that the interest was boost pressure. I need to go read again, but I don't recall reading about driveability, just the utter lack of boost with the att.

I too echo Ferm's comments about the mods power trip. That is why I don't post there anymore. Misinformation is rampant over there, and I get slammed when I post anything that doesn't agree with the popular crowd.

Thanx to the mods here for a great site, and not getting "power trips" at random times!


Slim: At wide open throttle, what is your peak egt and peak boost?

 

[NVW]

I don't know about Slim's but at WOT I let off at 18 psi and about 1050 F egt. I don't need to blow anything up.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Thanx to the mods here for a great site, and not getting "power trips" at random times!


Slim: At wide open throttle, what is your peak egt and peak boost?

I've hit 21 bumps by the scanner, my gauge is a 0-15 so cant really know what it does when it pegs gage at 15+ on mine 1100-1150F EGT; IIRC Dennis had been running 1250Fat WOT before playing with the tune he's running now.

10-11 psi & I'm running 100 mph I run mostly 75 mph which is 4-6 psi 650-700 depending on ambient conditions

Now question I'm thinking about on the unbiased nature of the test:

For the test team HXCKO vs ATT that says the ATT won't run without a special tune, yet per the article that was linked in MaxxTorque makes me go Hmnnnnn.

"After I fixed these problems, we took the Suburban to Payson and back with a 4,000-pound hydraulic dump trailer in tow. The fixes were a four-inch exhaust, new fuel tank and cleaned fuel system, Walbro FRC-10 lift pump, no tank sock, and a new six-position selectable tune chip. We did this with Tom Buddy who wrote a six-switch selectable tune for the 1995 OBDI computer. There were three people in the Suburban. We reflashed the chip in Payson with tune changes and at the end of the trip came up with the following conclusions.........."

According to the tester the ATT won't run in his Burb with the same 6 banger tune that appears to be what was run VERY SUCCESSFULLY in the article, where author seems to be very pleased, no smoke or lag issues reported in article,.

Could it be, the tune that was tailored to run with the HX CKO turbo is the cause of the performance loss when paired with ATT, or another on vehicle issue/unique difference/unknown variable; that is the cause of the testers performance delta which in complete contrast to the MaxxTorque article and other ATT owners that are reporting successes?

I'm not inferring that the HXCKO 6 banger tune is bad, but thinking that if a factory tune isn't what a HXCKO needs to get best out of the HXCKO, why then would one assume that a tune specifically for for a HXCKO would work on a ATT, and for a true apples to apples comparison, would one not run a specific ATT tune on it that had the same amount of time or dedication put to developing the best tune? Unless there might be a secondary motive to not show one set of performance over another, but I digeress.

Just as an FYI I'm into about the 10th iteration of tune in my truck from Bill Heath, and it still is not 100% dialed in better but just feels like something is missing, I'm hoping that at some point we will be able to incorporate the new info from OBD-I tune Dennis & colleagues can be incorporated into the OBD-II tune.

Final thought: Is the apples to apples test run on test vehicle really closer to a oranges to limes comparison, where both are citrus fruits; but different enough to require different harvesting and processing to get best flavor from the juice?

 

[Suburbank2500]

I've hit 21 bumps by the scanner, my gauge is a 0-15 so cant really know what it does when it pegs gage at 15+ on mine 1100-1150F EGT; IIRC Dennis had been running 1250Fat WOT before playing with the tune he's running now.

10-11 psi & I'm running 100 mph I run mostly 75 mph which is 4-6 psi 650-700 depending on ambient conditions

Now question I'm thinking about on the unbiased nature of the test:

For the test team HXCKO vs ATT that says the ATT won't run without a special tune, yet per the article that was linked in MaxxTorque makes me go Hmnnnnn.

"After I fixed these problems, we took the Suburban to Payson and back with a 4,000-pound hydraulic dump trailer in tow. The fixes were a four-inch exhaust, new fuel tank and cleaned fuel system, Walbro FRC-10 lift pump, no tank sock, and a new six-position selectable tune chip. We did this with Tom Buddy who wrote a six-switch selectable tune for the 1995 OBDI computer. There were three people in the Suburban. We reflashed the chip in Payson with tune changes and at the end of the trip came up with the following conclusions.........."

According to the tester the ATT won't run in his Burb with the same 6 banger tune that appears to be what was run VERY SUCCESSFULLY in the article, where author seems to be very pleased, no smoke or lag issues reported in article,.

Could it be, the tune that was tailored to run with the HX CKO turbo is the cause of the performance loss when paired with ATT, or another on vehicle issue/unique difference/unknown variable; that is the cause of the testers performance delta which in complete contrast to the MaxxTorque article and other ATT owners that are reporting successes?

I'm not inferring that the HXCKO 6 banger tune is bad, but thinking that if a factory tune isn't what a HXCKO needs to get best out of the HXCKO, why then would one assume that a tune specifically for for a HXCKO would work on a ATT, and for a true apples to apples comparison, would one not run a specific ATT tune on it that had the same amount of time or dedication put to developing the best tune? Unless there might be a secondary motive to not show one set of performance over another, but I digeress.

Just as an FYI I'm into about the 10th iteration of tune in my truck from Bill Heath, and it still is not 100% dialed in better but just feels like something is missing, I'm hoping that at some point we will be able to incorporate the new info from OBD-I tune Dennis & colleagues can be incorporated into the OBD-II tune.

Final thought: Is the apples to apples test run on test vehicle really closer to a oranges to limes comparison, where both are citrus fruits; but different enough to require different harvesting and processing to get best flavor from the juice?

I drove the ATT i while before installing the tune, and it worked very well, dont remember the boost i got, but i think i was about 10-12 psi.
That ATA cooler takes some boost i guess, but its sure works whitout a tune.
And with the tune installed it just put a smile on my face
For my needs the ATT was perfect, runs cheap as a daily driver, and tows like a Bull......

 

[WarWagon]

Dennis, I think you have far better things to do with your time. :nonod:

If not I suggest, again, that time is better spent putting together some success stories on the A Team website. How the turbo came to be, why it is better than a GMx, why you wouldn't want one. (With a boost valve I can't think of any except cost.) Make the information easy to find and others can take it or leave it. Overcoming the information black hole in political threads puts the power in their (forum threads) hands. We know you here, Dennis. The newbie on the other sh#t forum doesn't stand a chance to find the best solution because info is withheld and has been that way for years. Want to work a truck hard and you get the same canned answers that the site vendors over there sell more or less keeping the Asthma Attack factory turbo. The ONLY and I mean THE ONLY reason the HX40 or other turbo gets the light of day is because there isn't a specific vendor that sells them.

Come on lets solve the years old problem of a single place to find some damn answers on the turbo. 30+ pages of a political agenda on a forum is intimidating.

People appear brainwashed into bigger numbers are better no matter what. Bigger boost numbers. Boost numbers are half the story. Tell the other half. Tell the story of exhaust drive pressures on the ATT being the same to 25 PSI and the GMx having different drive pressures when the boost goes up. High drive pressure through a small housing with a turbulent waste gate open costs you power and MPG.

Light load conditions at 2200 RPM can have 0 boost. You don't need 6 PSI of boost all day because this wastes power and traps heat in the engine that the fan has to run and remove. Wasted power and running fans mean less MPG.

You have put your passion and I see the passion of others in bringing the ATT to life. No one else has taken to solving the problem on this engine to the extreme folks have with the ATT. Sure others have swapped turbo's. But the ATT effort has made the Asthma Attack of the factory turbo common knowledge. Seriously I thought my damn IP was running out of fuel the way the engine rolled over and played dead in the upper RPM ranges. (Sometimes it really WAS running out of fuel but this out of fuel would also show up as boost falling off.) So again I recommend that you put together a well done website to keep the dream alive for the new 6.5 owners. Where else are they going to find the info Dennis? 30+ pages of armchair results on a forum by people who don't have an identity?

Really? There is power in the upper RPM range on a 6.5!? Here is how a bigger turbo works and here is the trade off for it to work. Oh wait 6.5L has demonstrated a way to ELIMINATE the trade off!

Getting an HX40II over an ATT to clear up smoke isn't the answer. I can roll coal that puts out headlights in the daytime with BOTH the HX40II and the ATT! Tuning has addressed the smoke (Finally) for me. Recall I have the small precups to work around.

Worked hard the ATT has more power available in the top end. Even unloaded the ATT pulls harder than the HX40II I am running. In trade the HX40II starts to boost a littler earlier in the RPM range. Both turbo's need around 2000 RPM from a stoplight to come alive. On a hill, steady loaded RPM, the HX40II will have more boost below 2000 RPM. At freeway speed light load it holds more boost than the ATT and my MPG shows it. Same issue as the spring controlled GMx, turbomaster, etc - has boost under light load when it isn't needed. I don't see the computer controlling the boost implemented yet - esp. opening up the WG for zero boost efficient cruise. Something I called NA mode. (Another concept your website can cover for the newbie.)

Again no matter if one chooses a HXwhatever or a ATT it is still an improvement over a factory turbo.

Dennis, you have a couple roads to go down that others have suggested to get more out of the ATT. 6.5L has shown you a way to stomp the HX40II's reasons for claiming any advantage. (Not talking price.) Tunes and some marketing are some other roads to go down. But, most of all you need a good web page that has some hard hitting facts, just the facts, without all the pages of irreverent to the newbie posts to slog through.

Finding a page like this years ago would have saved me fuel money and possibly an engine. Instead I ran the GM3 with a turbomaster... :mad2:

Yes I get sick of the character attacks as well. But, it appears the norm for new out of the box thinking on automotive forums.

 

[NVW]

Some good info.

 

[Slim Shady]

I personally have pegged my gauge at 22 to 24 psi at 3400 rpm makes for a wild ride.