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pressurize or not?

Sealed system Al we get every bit as hot as you do in South Ms maybe even hotter at times and even towing to 18K I don't overheat, clean system, working fan clutch, stats and caps as designed are all that are required to keep the engine properly cooled.

I know this is old but I'd like to elaborate as we are coming into summer.

x2. We can get surprisingly hot here in CT and often have heavy highway congestion so you're sitting there in 105° ambient + solar heat on the pavement + added heat from all those additional automobiles around you...but GM designed the vehicle for that - kinda. Think of how our engines work...IDI engines have a lot of shrouding in the cylinder head because of the prechamber. You have most of your air getting compressed into that little pocket, then add some fuel and let it burn like a hell fire in there while it all makes its merry way out the little nozzle in the precup into the cylinder. DI diesels don't deal with this, so they belch out much less heat from their cooling systems. Even still, the truck was designed to deal with the extremes in stock form while handling its designed workload. The thing is that there seems to be a little less room for error in the cooling systems of these than in other vehicles so it's important to make it work the way it's supposed to.


I also like a previous post reminding us of the importance of keeping the radiator core clean. No one chimed in saying "Oh yeah I tried that and it really helped!" It bears reiteration - make sure your radiator core is clean and fins intact before going crazy with the cooling system. Fin combs are available in most auto parts stores. Tedious but necessary, especially if not careful with a potent pressure washer while trying to clean the core. Ask me how I know. :mad2:

Check specific gravity of your coolant - there is a myth among some that if it isn't going to freeze you don't need "antifreeze". Thankfully I haven't heard it mentioned on this post but I'll advise anyhow. It does prevent freezing and does actually slightly lower the specific heat of the water (that's bad), but you benefit from the anti-corrosive properties and lubricity of coolant. Fine rust particles can build up in the radiator cores and reduce heat transfer, water pump parts can suffer, etc. if this isn't present.

Make sure your thermostat opens. Yank it out and toss it in a pan of water with a thermometer. Bring it up to heat SLOWLY so your thermometer responds (keep the thermometer off the bottom of the pan to get an accurate reading) and observe the thermostat as the temperature approaches and passes its opening temp.

Regarding pressurization - I have a wood boiler and can go to about 230 before it starts to perk because I keep it under 15-20 psi of pressure. Lower that and you lower the boiling temperature. Same goes for a car. The reason they say not to open the cap when the engine is hot is because (a) the system is under pressure and will force some water out and (b) some of the water that remains could be above its boiling point @ atmospheric pressure so it will flash to steam, causing much more of the water to be ejected from the vented cap shortly thereafter. I also like the point someone made about the suction side of the water pump! Remember that if the boiling point rises due to increase in temperature, it will also DROP due to a decrease in pressure. So this localized area of decreased pressure could also be an area where boiling could occur.

Many great points have come up in this thread. To bring it all together, make sure that everything was as it was designed to be and you should be FINE. KISS, as one forum member suggested.

Happy trucking.:thumbsup:
 
It should be said also that 'antifreeze' is also 'antiboil'.. With a strong 50/50 mix the coolant will have quite a bit higher boil point than 212*F. Most hydrometer style testers will give you a decent reading for freeze and boil both.
 
And helps the coolant adhere to the block, heads, ect. And I run a pressure gauge on the asphalt car but not the dirt car. Never thought of my truck.

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Check your radiator cap, mine pressure tested at 0psi. I have no idea how long it has been this way. I will guess for about 2 years plus. It only showed its ugly head when I towed up hills.
 
I know this is old but I'd like to elaborate as we are coming into summer.

x2. We can get surprisingly hot here in CT and often have heavy highway congestion so you're sitting there in 105° ambient + solar heat on the pavement + added heat from all those additional automobiles around you...but GM designed the vehicle for that - kinda.

:welcome2:

Absolutely some good advice about a clean restriction free radiator stack.

105 is the limit for GM R134A systems of this era to even weakly work. 110 you are not going to be comfortable. 115-120 you are leading the way to help others fix GM bean counter mistakes by any means possible.

GM certainly did NOT do their damn job on cooling system or AC design (occupant cooling design) in any way shape or form on this body style. Their AZ test track (Now sold) was certainly a waste of money as they decided that miserable AC performance was ok while import AC systems were freezing your balls off in AZ weather.

GM AC systems from this era run with the fan always on high so much the other weak GM design wiring shows up as melted connectors.

First there is a lack of natural airflow through the radiator stack from the body design. Then GM went reverse rotation water pump for the serpentine belt and discovered that it caused balance flow problems even in the 350's after many had to be replaced under warranty. Then there is the POS in many ways 1970's R4 compressor factory converted to R134A. At least it got the axe in the middle of the design run of this body style. Aftermarket items like The VOV Variable Orface Valve helps GM AC systems from this era a lot. Just not enough airflow in the cabin to really make up for the R-12 change and the system was weak on R12 to begin with.

The 350 size excuse for 6 blade fan was re-re-re-designed. Even new the fan clutch would overheat and quit when you needed it most. Due to warranty costs or other reasons GM had to redesign the system including a design change to water pumps on 1995 350 gas engines. Then for the diesels in 1998 GM went to a decent 9 blade fan and HO water pump with 2 thermostats to handle the flow.

Then another redesign of the entire 6.5 engine by someone other than GM for the military HUMMERS. Included cooling system fixes.

Others figured out how to get a better Duramax fan, yes a DI diesel engine fan, to fit under the hood for our IDI diesels.

Others also figured out that under a load the GMx turbo and small exhaust pipe was a big part of the excessive cooling system load.

The low temp clutch is going back in time to 1998 GM OBS when the cooling fan came on sooner. The low temp clutch is really a way to overcome the heat rise while you wait for the slow and obsolete spring thermal fan clutch to kick on when the hill climb arrives.

Grab yourself a temp gun and look at the temperatures of the condenser before and after the oil coolers following the refrigerant flow. You will see the oil coolers are heating the condenser and freon back up in places. GM's choice to put them in front of the AC condenser. The condenser runs at 160 degrees. 4L80E's are around 210 and engine oil 230-300. Um yes, the engine oil cooler hoses do die often... Very difficult to move the oil coolers behind the condenser where they belong for best AC performance and efficiency (MPG).

So following just GM design changes you can get a decent cooling system for your 1994. Going aftermarket you can get the AC system to keep you comfortable on what I would call a hot day. All the 'excuses' of hot day, hot road, siting in traffic, are just that: excuses for cost-cutting and not doing the job of delivering a vehicle with decent AC performance and adequate cooling. The same year import or a 2000 Era GM next to you in traffic isn't sweating their seats soaked... (Except Trailblazers, but, that is just a stack seal issue in 110+ weather that is an easy fix.)
 
:welcome2:

Absolutely some good advice about a clean restriction free radiator stack.

105 is the limit for GM R134A systems of this era to even weakly work. 110 you are not going to be comfortable. 115-120 you are leading the way to help others fix GM bean counter mistakes by any means possible.

GM certainly did NOT do their damn job on cooling system or AC design...
.
.
.
So following just GM design changes you can get a decent cooling system for your 1994. Going aftermarket you can get the AC system to keep you comfortable on what I would call a hot day. All the 'excuses' of hot day, hot road, siting in traffic, are just that: excuses for cost-cutting and not doing the job of delivering a vehicle with decent AC performance and adequate cooling. The same year import or a 2000 Era GM next to you in traffic isn't sweating their seats soaked... (Except Trailblazers, but, that is just a stack seal issue in 110+ weather that is an easy fix.)

Thanks for those tips. I plan on doing mostly highway road trips with this. I tend to be very reluctant to use AC but want it to work well on this vehicle. Probably difficult to see in my sig but the vehicle has front end damage (didn't take out anything important - just bent the radiator mount and beat up the grill, bumper, left headlights, etc). I bought it like that and just recently got the wiring damage from the crash (had a relocated PMD in the bumper among other headaches, some created by...less skilled...mechanics, i.e. starter brush cover upside down, as a result installed without bracket, IP advanced all the way to the end of the slots, kicked on warm start and stripped bendix gear, lift pump wires loosely twisted together and electrical tape unraveled, ZERO throttle response when put in gear and sluggish response in neutral or park, you get the picture...)

Point is, the truck hasn't seen the road under its own power in a few years, and never since I've owned it. It's got next to no rust and 156k mi. so I have high hopes for it. More blow-by than I'd like to see and very weak on cyl. 4 according to both thermal analysis using IR gun and DTC 94, but enough compression so I'll drive it as it is (once it will drive) so that I can see if there are any other things that need attention when I take it down to re-ring/re-bearing it.

I'd hate to create more problems by overheating it though. If I desired to kick the cooling capacity up a notch, what would be the first thing you'd suggest for me to do to it before putting it on the road? Best bang for the buck is what I'm looking for, I suppose. Thanks.
 
:welcome2:

Absolutely some good advice about a clean restriction free radiator stack.

105 is the limit for GM R134A systems of this era to even weakly work. 110 you are not going to be comfortable. 115-120 you are leading the way to help others fix GM bean counter mistakes by any means possible.

GM certainly did NOT do their damn job on cooling system or AC design...
.
.
.
So following just GM design changes you can get a decent cooling system for your 1994. Going aftermarket you can get the AC system to keep you comfortable on what I would call a hot day. All the 'excuses' of hot day, hot road, siting in traffic, are just that: excuses for cost-cutting and not doing the job of delivering a vehicle with decent AC performance and adequate cooling. The same year import or a 2000 Era GM next to you in traffic isn't sweating their seats soaked... (Except Trailblazers, but, that is just a stack seal issue in 110+ weather that is an easy fix.)

Thanks for the warm welcome and for those tips. I plan on doing mostly highway road trips with this. I tend to be very reluctant to use AC but want it to work well on this vehicle. Probably difficult to see in my profile photo but the vehicle has front end damage (didn't take out too much - just bent the radiator mount and beat up the grill, bumper, left headlights, etc. and split the brake line where it crosses over to the passengers side.) I bought it like that and just recently got the wiring damage from the crash (had a relocated PMD in the bumper among other headaches, some created by...less skilled...mechanics, i.e. starter brush cover upside down, as a result installed without bracket, IP advanced all the way to the end of the slots, kicked on warm start and stripped bendix gear, lift pump wires loosely twisted together and electrical tape unraveled, ZERO throttle response when put in gear and sluggish response in neutral or park, you get the picture...)

Point is, the truck hasn't seen the road under its own power in a few years, and never since I've owned it. It's got next to no rust and 156k mi. so I have high hopes for it. More blow-by than I'd like to see and very weak on cyl. 4 according to both thermal analysis using IR gun and DTC 94, but enough compression so I'll drive it as it is (once it will drive) so that I can see if there are any other things that need attention when I take it down to re-ring/re-bearing it.

I'd hate to create more problems by overheating it though. If I desired to kick the cooling capacity up a notch, what would be the first thing you'd suggest for me to do to it before putting it on the road? Best bang for the buck is what I'm looking for, I suppose. Thanks.
 
Remove and clean the cooling stack. Remove the radiator to do it. Everyone who has do e it always comments how amazed they are afterwards. Scrubbing bubbles, degreaser, lots of backwards flushing through the fins from a garden hose. Then buy a $5 radiator comb and straighten all the fins.

The next thing is the ho water pump and dmax can blade with new fanclutch. I'll leave the links up t someone who is better at searching than me- about anyone.
Has anyone seen my keyboard?...
 
Thanks Will. Cooling stack is coming off to address the body damage anyways.

Pardon the silly question but how is it that a fan from a DI engine, which due to its lack of cylinder head shrouding and inherent improvement in thermal efficiency should be less demanding of its cooling system, pose any benefit to the cooling system? Or was the d'max way overkill on airflow?


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The entire cooling system on these engines were messed up from the get go by gm. Then they undersized the fan volume flow for the truck aerodynamics on top of it for your body style. (no pity from me as hummers/hmmwv loose 70% of air flow at 65mph through the cooling stack so yeah-I know design issues SUCK).

The water pump was later redesigned for a more balanced flow and higher volume. The Fan clutch engages too late. The fan blades are too small/few. The dmax fan moves a lot more air. The other fan clutch engages at a quicker rate, and lower temp; it transfer a higher % of rotation as well,*** not the dmax fan clutch,it's a different one.

The dmax fan was probably chosen just because with people trying everything under the sun, someone tried it and angles sang in 6.5 heaven at the air flow and easy adaptation- could have been a 1974 pinto fan blade if it would have worked better everyone would have went with it.

There are,imo, 3 death nails for the 6.5.
#1-pmd causes bad juju for the world that doesn't understand to not own a ds4 ip without a spare pmd in the glove box at all times. CURED by a db2 ip.

#2-overheating issue that are cured by the above cooling mod and 4" exhaust for most people, and for the rest that really work the truck hard outing the undersized gm turbo to let everything flow in and out well dumping the heat- overheating kills almost all the 6.5s in my part of the world.

#3-bad harmonic balancers amplifying a lightweight designed lower end -crank/block causing cracked main webs and broken cranks. Start the engine with a fluid damper or a optimizer- best yet by the holy grail p400.

Really spend time in the stickys and reading older threads about those 3 subjects and you will save lots of time and $.
 
Thanks Will. Any thoughts on electric fans? They might be nice in heavy traffic. Would the stock alternator handle the extra juice? Any experience on the forum in this subject?


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Tons of us tried them-very expensive, top quality- only to sell on ebay. Don't waste your time. These solutions work the best after years of trying by many people.
 
Thanks Will. Any thoughts on electric fans? They might be nice in heavy traffic. Would the stock alternator handle the extra juice? Any experience on the forum in this subject?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While trying to get a Trailblazer SS to run cool out here I measured the Freestanding electric fan kit that was popular using LS1 fans. Without a radiator, hood closed, etc. "Freestanding" it was just below 5,000 CFM. Using a wind speed meter, like you use on the track, I measured the EV Clutch fan on the Trailblazer SS at different RPM's. This fan with the hood, radiators, etc. in place was going over 5,000 CFM at 1200 RPM and giving me 10,000 CFM as fast as I could spin it before the belt started to loudly slip. In other words anything over 1200 RPM and it's game over for 'theoretical' freestanding CFM of electric fans.

I tried the 21" Trailblazer fan in my 6.5 and discovered that the 9 blade steel and 21" Duramax fan have more pitch and move more air than this fan did as I was running hot pulling a hill with the AC off. Corrected with installing a 2002 Duramax fan I pulled the same hill at WOT with the AC on high and didn't go over 210.

I am reading about the "New" Ram 1/2 ton diesel is crippled with electric fans and running fairly hot towing. :rolleyes: That HAD to be from the GM part of the design no doubt. Typical GM fix of synthetic oil to handle the oil temps from running hot.

As far as cleaning the stack - also remove the oil coolers and clean the mat that builds up behind them on the AC condenser.

Water pump - any NEW (Reman may be the old bad design pump with balance flow issues.) 1998+ pump will work. Somewhere around 2000 they went to a thread on fan clutch and pump. :rant: Thread on is a bitch to get on and off and I just reach for the air chisel, put it on the edge of the nut and use it like an ad hoc impact to break then damn things loose. 4 bolt water pumps are cake compared to servicing thread on. :rant:

Single thermostat is fine.

The 9 blade steel fan from 1998+ will work and is on fleabay cheap.
The 2002 Duramax fan moves more air at idle for AC. Otherwise both fans will keep you under 210 with a low temp clutch.
Kennedy Diesel sells a low temp calibration fan clutch. It does the job no matter what I threw at it or how hot it is out here. Others mod their fan clutch thermal spring to save $. Again they have a 5 year rated life and are best replaced before the 6th summer weather hits.

I run a low temp thermostat - 180 and it work well with the low temp clutch to keep the peak temp at 210 or lower when going WOT for a grade. Your use and MPG may vary with this mod.

Further improvements specifically less fan use is from getting a bigger turbo. I have noticed less fan use with both the A Team Turbo and HX40II over the factory turbo. All 3 had a 4" exhaust.

I seriously doubt your truck looks any worse than mine does. It was 'rebuilt' after catching a couple Elk in the radiator. :rolleyes5: Yeah, the steel 9 blade fan is a lawnmower when stopped suddenly from full RPM...
 
WW...thank you VERY MUCH for that write up. Great info.

My truck isn't too bad and my brother has a gasser with a good nose sitting up at his shop - said I could have anything I needed off it. Is the radiator support the same on a gasser and diesel?? I never thought to ask....hmmmm...:idea:
 
so you are saying I should ditch the McRat thermostats?

Teh DMAX uses a 180 and a 185 in stock form, and is designed to run in the 200-220 range. And going to a lower temp T-stat does NOT prevent overheating, it only makes it take longer until it gets as hot. If an engine will hit 220 with a 195, it WILL do it with a 180 or a 160 just as easily as they are ALL fully open before 220. By running a lower temp T-stat you are only making it take longer to get to the hot temp, but you are adversley effecting a diesel by creating to low of a cylinder temp when running empty and costing yourself money. As said above, it takes heat to ignite diesel, so lowering your engine temp means it has to work harder to ignite it. You have a temp window teh engine wants to be in, run it to low and you get a poor burn, and run it to hot and you hurt the engine, but keep it in that temp range and she's happy.
 
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