Preferred choice of oil

[Goldsburg]

...Try not to imagine her all oily...

Since you said that, I HAD to watch. And no, I couldn't keep from imagining (it made my afternoon though!!!!):ihih:

As "authoritative" as she (looked) sounded, I still have to disagree with the premise that sythetic oils reduce or prevent sludge deposits better than "good" petroleum based oils. Everything else was happily agreeable...11:

Regards,

 

[JMJNet]

The truth about synthetics... They are great however they are still a petrolium based product. I have a friend who works for cheveron and he said besides the additional addatives in the synthetic the only other difference is the size of the molecules. I don't remember the actually size of the molecules but synthetic doesn't have a molecule size greater than 3. (I don't remember what the # in the size means) The standard oils can have sizes anywhere up to 15. The smaller molecules allow it to flow more freely.

Chevron don't make true synthetic (PAO aka Group IV) based oil. They only make Refined Hydrocracked oil aka Group III. It is true that they add more additive to it and it is still dino based oil as mentioned in my post earlier. PAO is mostly made by Mobil Oil and they are used by Amsoil and Schaeffer.

 

[Ragindiesel]

Delo is an 11.5 TBN product

Most other including mobil synthetic is only a 10.5, but the base stocks are much better so inturn the product is more shear stable than delo.

I would rather have a good base stock oil instead of a bunch is crap added to it to boost numbers.

Redline is a Ester based group V product

 

[Ragindiesel]

a little info on base stocks
Group I Solvent Freezing Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils on the market use Group I stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Group II Hydroprocessing and Refining Group II base oils are common in mineral-based motor oils currently available on the market. They have fair to good performance in lubricating properties such as volatility, oxidative stability and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point, cold crank viscosity and extreme pressure wear.

Group III Hydroprocessing and Refining Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of mineral oil refining of the base oil groups. Although they are not chemically engineered, they offer good performance in a wide range of attributes as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. They are commonly mixed with additives and marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic products. Group III base oil products have become more common in America during the past decade.

Group IV Chemical Reactions Group IV base oils are chemically engineered synthetic base stocks. Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) are a common example of a synthetic base stock. Synthetics, when combined with additives, offer excellent performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. They have very stable chemical compositions and highly uniform molecular chains. Group IV base oils are becoming more common in synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automotive and industrial applications.

Group V As Indicated Group V base oils are used primarily in the creation of oil additives. Esters and polyolesters are both common Group V base oils used in the formulation of oil additives. Group V oils exhibit a wide variety of properties specific to each individual oil's formulation. Group V base oils are generally not used as base oils themselves, but add beneficial properties to other base oils.

 

[Goldsburg]

a little info on base stocks
Group I Solvent Freezing Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils on the market use Group I stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.
Group II Hydroprocessing and Refining Group II base oils are common in mineral-based motor oils currently available on the market. They have fair to good performance in lubricating properties such as volatility, oxidative stability and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point, cold crank viscosity and extreme pressure wear.
Group III Hydroprocessing and Refining Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of mineral oil refining of the base oil groups. Although they are not chemically engineered, they offer good performance in a wide range of attributes as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. They are commonly mixed with additives and marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic products. Group III base oil products have become more common in America during the past decade.
Group IV Chemical Reactions Group IV base oils are chemically engineered synthetic base stocks. Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) are a common example of a synthetic base stock. Synthetics, when combined with additives, offer excellent performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. They have very stable chemical compositions and highly uniform molecular chains. Group IV base oils are becoming more common in synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automotive and industrial applications.
Group V As Indicated Group V base oils are used primarily in the creation of oil additives. Esters and polyolesters are both common Group V base oils used in the formulation of oil additives. Group V oils exhibit a wide variety of properties specific to each individual oil's formulation. Group V base oils are generally not used as base oils themselves, but add beneficial properties to other base oils.

Thanks for the info! I have never been able to find that information put so succinctly.

Regards,

 

[Ragindiesel]

Glad to help!!

 

[Slim Shady]

Wikipedia has a good article on the types, uses, advantages and disadvantages of synthetic oil,
here

Little video clip from DrivingTV..


Try not to imagine her all oily...

TO LATE already did, have to have a cig after watching that video. Book marked the dang thing :thumbsup:

Where was she when I was in Auto Shop class. Hah I know, not born yet. :svengo:

 

[Matt Bachand]

I notice a HUGE difference come winter time running the 0-40 mobil 1... So much quieter initial start up... Now i'm running the 15-40 truck/suv high mieleage mobil 1... Will go back to the 0 in a few more months.

 

[TurboTahoe]

If you gave me a free Fram filter I would not use it. I have cut way too many oil filters apart in the last 20 years to even consider using one. No matter what Fram says or advertises - seeing is believing. I use Wix filters religiously on my vehicles. I use the factory Mack filters on the big truck. I recently cut a few K&N oil filters apart in the dyno room and they are high quality as well. Delco filters are/were? made by Wix but it seems that the quality has dropped on them recently, probably a request by the General to save money.

For the standard Fram filters, I would have to agree. However, on the HP4 I disagree. It handles the soot on the 6.5 extremely well, certainly a LOT better than the Delco. I would say to buy an HP4 and cut it apart. It is NOT built (or priced) the same. They usually sell for 10 bucks at Autozone, same as the Mobil 1. I think that that Fram HP4 is similar in quality to the Mobil 1 and/or the K&N, which I think are quite well made. Seriously, check it out.

Rob

 

[Matt Bachand]

Why bother, just get the Mobil-1 for 10 bux. BTW Walmart has 5-quart jugs of synthetic mobil-1 for 23$ a pop, so 2 of them, and a filter (which wally doesn't carry), and it gives you 2 quarts extra to replenish your leaks in between changes

 

[Jasonsmack]

For the standard Fram filters, I would have to agree. However, on the HP4 I disagree. It handles the soot on the 6.5 extremely well, certainly a LOT better than the Delco. I would say to buy an HP4 and cut it apart. It is NOT built (or priced) the same. They usually sell for 10 bucks at Autozone, same as the Mobil 1. I think that that Fram HP4 is similar in quality to the Mobil 1 and/or the K&N, which I think are quite well made. Seriously, check it out.

Rob

Send me one and I will cut it apart properly and post pictures. I am pretty sure I have had them apart in the dyno room as well but I can not guarantee it. I checked out some internet pictures and they seem familiar. You do get what you pay for, I am sure that the extra cost is somewhere in their HP4 product.

The funniest thing is that when I did a google on the HP4 the first thing that came up was an article from Fram indicating that they had recalled all of the HP4 filters that they have manufactured for a period spanning nearly 14 months.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Why even bother with fram if it is known that a mobil-1 or amsoil or other top brands are out there for a buck or 2 more per oil change?

 

[Ragindiesel]

The best filters for the price are Baldwins.

The Donaldson endurance line are great filters also. The mobil filter isn't that great it's still a 35- 40 micron filter. Why even bother with the fram, mobil, and others on the shelf filters when there are much better filters on the market for nearly the same price. Filtering is more important than the oil you use.

 

[Matt Bachand]

The best filters for the price are Baldwins.

The Donaldson endurance line are great filters also. The mobil filter isn't that great it's still a 35- 40 micron filter. Why even bother with the fram, mobil, and others on the shelf filters when there are much better filters on the market for nearly the same price. Filtering is more important than the oil you use.

So Baldwin has the lowest micron filter without sacrificing volume throughput?

 

[Ragindiesel]

no the donaldson or amsoil are. Amsoil filters are manufactured by donadlson. It's basically the same filter. 15 micron

The baldwins are a great filter for the money and probably easier to come by as most truck center will have your filters. They range to be around 25 micron, but are about 8 bux or so.

Don't forget about the stratapore filter is a full flow and bypass all in one. Barnon the best filter money can buy, but it comes with a price tag to af around 30 bux

 

[Turbine Doc]

The best filters for the price are Baldwins.

The Donaldson endurance line are great filters also. The mobil filter isn't that great it's still a 35- 40 micron filter. Why even bother with the fram, mobil, and others on the shelf filters when there are much better filters on the market for nearly the same price. Filtering is more important than the oil you use.

Ditto oil & air filters are key, notice on spread sheet majority of time I was running Baldwin elements on a AMSOIL remote bypass kit with Rotella oil, last 2 samples are running AMS synthetic 1 with baldwin elements & 1 with AMS elements, but also note elevated silica, my AMS foam air filter was failing, am currently running AMS oil, oil filters, and OEM paper air filter.

I just ordered a new Donnelson AMS air filter,

I'll be pulling a truck oil sample with paper element air filter & AMS oil & filts should be about 9500 miles on that sample when the kit arrives.

I'll be collecting data on my FS2500 equipped Burb once I get time on it to match the mileage from the most recent truck sample, I installed the FS2500 with new AMS synthetic oil, new oil cooler lines, and new oil cooler, & new Wix oil filter 3 weeks ago.

Thus far I've really noticed no significant difference with syn vs QUALITY dino base oil, but it never gets really cold here for oil viscosity in cold weather to be an issue, as far as mpg, maybe there is some, but I have to heavy a right foot to notice the effect of that.

 

[Ragindiesel]

as you can see the Amsoil additve package is holding together much better on extended use though. Sample and number look good though

 

[Turbine Doc]

FYI aslo on the extended intevals oil consumption/leakage was about 1qt every 1-1.5K miles, note worthy to the 6.5er this was with GM-8 turbo, what I'm seeing with mitsubishi turbo and china turbo is virtually no oil in turbo inlet tract from CDR, will be keeping a close trend on this as time with china turbo accumulates

Shaun what numbers should I be trending closest

 

[Pepperidge]

I usually run Mobil 1 Delvac synthetic 5w40...

couldn't find it last two changes so I put in the Royal Purple 15w40 synthetic...

Will go back to Mobil 1 Delvac next change as I found a source again... I change mine every 7500 miles...not testing ...I'd probably go longer if I were doing Oil analysis...

 

[Ragindiesel]

FYI aslo on the extended intevals oil consumption/leakage was about 1qt every 1-1.5K miles, note worthy to the 6.5er this was with GM-8 turbo, what I'm seeing with mitsubishi turbo and china turbo is virtually no oil in turbo inlet tract from CDR, will be keeping a close trend on this as time with china turbo accumulates

Shaun what numbers should I be trending closest

How far into the interval did this occure?