Peninsular Engines towing turbo?

[WarWagon]

Looks like something I have under the hood... Anyone know anything about it? As many times as I have been to their site I have not run across it before.

Peninsular Engines » Vehicles » 6.5L Diesel Truck/Motorhome » Turbos and Exhuast System

T6500751 Turbo, Truck with Welded Elbow

Turbo, Truck with Welded Elbow to match up to stock exhaust flange on 6.5L engines. Comes with oil feed adapter.
Additional DescriptionMore Details

This turbo is set up for towing, not for a race from stop light to stop light. We originally developed this turbo for guys towing fifth wheel trailers and travel trailers.

$1,193.66 Price

 

[6.5L]

Looks similiar, but I see differences. First, the exhaust housing is different. There's, although dual volute, does not have the raised ridge in the middle that the ATT does and the back of the housing where the downpipe fits is different. Second, the compressor housing is shaped slightly different and the housing is secured via bolts, not a v-band that the ATT does. Although, I kind of suspect both are probably extremely close in size and performance. For that money, I will just stick with the ATT

 

[turbonator]

its a schwitzer, s300 series turbo, i would imagine that it has around a 56mm-58mm compressor wheel, so infact will push more air than the ATT due to having a bigger compressor wheel...

 

[6.5L]

It wont push more air than an ATT

 

[6.5L]

Have you even measured the compressor wheel on an ATT? I just measured mine last weekend.

 

[SmithvilleD]

Peninsular has been offering a non-wastegated turbo kit for the 6.5 diesels for many years - long before the ATT. Peninsular has decades of experience with non-gated turbo applications on the 6.5 diesel - relating to their marine engine business. Rather than guessing about flowrates, call Peninsular & talk with Matt. It's a viable option that 6.5 trucks have used & responds like you'd expect a properly sized, non-wastegated turbo to run.

Without actually measuring mass airflow rates, there's a whole lot of guessing & inference that goes on in the 6.5 community & regarding turbos in general. Since our 6.5's (and most diesels of that era) didn't come with mass air sensors, there aren't a lot of 6.5'rs that fully appreciate how useful knowing actual mass airflow rates is when comparing different turbos & their response curves.

If you question the above statement, discuss it further with someone you know to have significant turbo engine tuning experience on platforms with a mass airflow meter. Experience has taught me to trust a (known good & reasonably correct/calibrated) mass airflow sensor's lbs/hr or gms/sec reading way more than guessing. Would expect Ferm has seen some of this with his DMax turning & knows what I mean.

 

[turbonator]

Have you even measured the compressor wheel on an ATT? I just measured mine last weekend.

well, if in fact you have measured it, post up the results.... or even better measure it and take a pic to prove it... as for measuring the ATT i have not, although there is tons of info on the TD-07 that it is copied from, and it is stated that the compressor wheel is 54mm, which is the same as a wheel in an H1C... and the H1C flows just under 600CFM.... the S300 series turbos start out (OEM) with a 56mm compressor wheel (same as an HX35) and flow over 600CFM... so, yes, an S300 flows more than the TD07... now maybe slim has made some wheel modifications here, but if he has he does not share that info, so i go by what i see, and read from reliable sources..... anyone can mask a turbos lack of airflow by putting a larger turbine housing on it, which just makes enough lag to make up for the lack of CFM..... cummins does it with the VGT, gm does it with the garrett VVT, so does ford.....

 

[Slim Shady]

I have spoken with MAtt at Penisular in person, they have a customer who purchased a P400 engine from them and was running one of my turbo's on the P400. Matt had a chance to drive the vehicle with the A-Team on it. I will let you speculate on that conversation. We have no bones, matter of fact he is a very nice person. We discussed turbos and the BS that goes on on forums, he had some very good advice on that subject. One note I will let you in on is that there was an agreement that any boost over 15 pounds on a GM 6.5 is not good. That comes from the man himself. The speculation made here about their turbo is incorrect, that I will tell you.

When you make something and invest a substantial amount of venture capital into it, I would expect peopel would be happy to share their findings with the people that have nothing good to say about the product. And yes Penisular have been selling their turbo for a long time. Still didn't stop Matt from talking with me for quite some time, I was impressed with him. And will stop back in from time to time to speak with him.

 

[Will L.]

Is there a word combining
"Integrity" and "professionalism"?

 

[SmithvilleD]

Exactly why I suggested speaking with Matt. They've got years of experience selling 6.5 engine packages that they've got to stand behind/warranty - the entire engine.

Bigley's/The Diesel Page 6.5L Turbo Diesel - Volume II had an article on a 6.5 build by Andrew Ashwill back in the day, that used Peninsular's turbo offering for the 6.5 trucks. Don't know if they've updated or changed anything since then, but that reference is one of the more widely available about a setup that used the turbo WW inquired about at this thread's beginning. Their turbo then used a Schwitzer turbine housing & ctr section. Don't know what the wheel specs were beyond that the turbine wheel/housing and compressor section was sized to make about 15 psi peak boost with fueling to make ~ 275-300 flywheel hp in the upper rpms.

 

[turbonator]

Exactly why I suggested speaking with Matt. They've got years of experience selling 6.5 engine packages that they've got to stand behind/warranty - the entire engine.

Bigley's/The Diesel Page 6.5L Turbo Diesel - Volume II had an article on a 6.5 build by Andrew Ashwill back in the day, that used Peninsular's turbo offering for the 6.5 trucks. Don't know if they've updated or changed anything since then, but that reference is one of the more widely available about a setup that used the turbo WW inquired about at this thread's beginning. Their turbo then used a Schwitzer turbine housing & ctr section. Don't know what the wheel specs were beyond that the turbine wheel/housing and compressor section was sized to make about 15 psi peak boost with fueling to make ~ 275-300 flywheel hp in the upper rpms.

ashwell made around 225WHP with his combo..... and to slim; you are the only turbo seller in the world that does not give any specs on your turbo..... i find it a surprise that anyone buys it on pure speculation..... and you can say what you want about maximum boost on the 6.5l, but we have been running our test motor now for 685 hours, between 5 and 30psi boost and it is still going strong, no HG failures, and we will continue like this because second and third hand information on what and what not to do does not hold water with us, we do our own testing and go on the results that we find first hand....

 

[SmithvilleD]

Doesn't his 225 RWHP on an inertial/Dynojet chassis dyno agree pretty well with 275-300 flywheel hp & normal driveline losses? Perhaps I misinterpret the "..."

My post was simply responding to WW's original post inquiring if anybody knew anything about the non-gated turbo Peninsular offers for the 6.5 trucks.

 

[turbonator]

Doesn't his 225 RWHP on an inertial/Dynojet chassis dyno agree pretty well with 275-300 flywheel hp & normal driveline losses? Perhaps I misinterpret the "..."

My post was simply responding to WW's original post inquiring if anybody knew anything about the non-gated turbo Peninsular offers for the 6.5 trucks.

We are in agreement that with normal drivetrain losses, it would be in the range of 275-300bhp. Which is a very good improvement over the original 195-215 bhp. Just like to be specific as to whether someone is talking about crank or wheel horsepower, as there have been many unsubstantiated claims of horsepower gains.

We are not looking for any conflict here, just hoping that we might find some actual data and specifications. We try to post up as much as we can of measurements and data recorded in testing, so as to enable owners to make educated choices when upgrading from GM's OEM turbo's. Since there has never been any compressor wheel, turbine wheel, nor housing dimensions offered for the ATT, we utilize the data from the original TD07 turbo's.

Every different housing, wheel combination will react differently with the same motor, and the same will react different on a different motor. In all this however, similar dimensioning of turbo's can be used to make correlations, and can be very useful when deciding on sizing for the specific needs. We are conservative in the extent of the overlap we use when doing these correlations, and will stand by our reference to the Schwitzer probably flowing more air that the ATT. Keep in mind however, for anything other than the first 500-600 rpm off of idle, both are a huge power gain over the GM-X series turbos and the gains alone from the reduced drive pressure above 1800 rpm make the swap beneficial.....our first response also, was to offer information about the turbo, and compare it to another that many have tried already. Usually, we utilize Holset's for this comparison, as with now having tried well over 20 different turbo combinations (predominantly Holset variations), we are starting to have somewhat of an understanding how minor, and/or major turbo changes react in the real world and on the dyno.

 

[JiFaire]

Without actually measuring mass airflow rates, there's a whole lot of guessing & inference that goes on in the 6.5 community & regarding turbos in general.

That there is a true statement. I guess some people just can't help themselves.

Is there a word combining
"Integrity" and "professionalism"?

Not sure if there's one word, but if there is, it applies to Dennis ... also to Matt at Peninsular.

 

[Slim Shady]

Over a few hundred happy A-Team Turbo customers and an A-Team Dyno run with a Mecanical pump showing 275 HP and 430 ftLb tourque at the rear wheels is not a wish and a prayer. . I and a few others tested the A-Team turbo long before it went public back in 2008 and long before the experts at the forums were around. So forgive me for not having that loving feeling:rolleyes5:. And to answer one of your questions, there are a multitude of TDO-7 varaints and a multitude of combinations as far as compressor wheels. I am certianly no expert, but happy to take the suggestions from some good engineers in turbo design, That have all of the equipment to make the air flow numbers needed to supply up to 6.7 liters and then some. Little tidbit there for you, take it for what it is worth. I don't need to be an expert, I have the right people that do know.

Also I was told who makes the penisular turbo and it isn't for me to divulge. We did discuss atributes of both designs. Matt had an opertunity to dissassemble the A-team turbo and to be able to drive a truck with the P400 and a kojo tune. The 15 pound max boost didn't come from me that was his belief and knowledge, wich I share . He is someone that has a lot of experiance with marine engines. LOL, I would belive him before some of the other experts. He and I share some life experiances that most don't, so we share a different view on things, Causing controversy or bad mouthing each other isn't something he or I find worthwhile.

 

[WarWagon]

Where do they feel the 15 PSI boost limit applies? For sure it is the GMx turbo, but, with that removed what are they concerned about? I have run over that number long enough... So have many ATT/HX40II owners. Maybe something long term? Maybe something with their turbo setup? Not going to change how I run mine - just curious.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I would think the 15 PSI limit comes in from basic math. A stock 6.5 with say 400-425 lbs of compression at 15 pounds of boost would be close to 700-750 pounds of compression(figuring in for some airflow loss due to port sizes and such). Since your dealing with a light duty diesel platform, that kind of compression is quite a bit. Even the DURAMAX in stock form using similar formulas tries to be around 900 or so for compression, and that is a true medium duty engine. Can you go higher, of course. The question is from a longevity stand point they recommend the ceiling at 2 atmospheres or 15 PSI of boost. And also once you reach a certain amount of boost you hit the diminishing return point where you can push more air, but you just don't see the gains like you did up to a conservative setting. This is why I tend to keep my boost numbers down to a conservative level is I know I can push more boost and see more power, but at what expense to longevity does it come at. So I tune for a slight haze at WOT and call it good. Yes I'm leaving say 3-5% of power on the table, but the lower cylinder pressures to me seem worth it. If you want to see some real gains, you can do like the DMAX guys are now doing. Find some better cylinder heads. The guys who were pushing 100-125 pounds of boost are now seeing 70-80 with the same set-ups with aftermarket heads, and making MORE HP. As has been discussed before, you need airflow. And boost will give you more airflow, but it also comes at a cost.

 

[JiFaire]

We're also limited by fuel. 15 PSI is probably flowing almost as much air as we need, in most applications with a DS4. Like Ferm said, just enough to get a light haze.

After you have enough hot air, any extra is just bragging.

 

[6.5L]

"so infact will push more air than the ATT due to having a bigger compressor wheel... "

"as for measuring the ATT i have not"

^^^^two quotes from Turbonator showing a little confusion and loss of mind. Measure up before you go saying one is bigger/smaller than the other. And I won't post up the results out of respect for Slim. Now I hope that you are man enough to respect that decision.

 

[Project57idi]

So does one have to sign a non-disclosure agreement when they buy an ATT? I mean, why is the wheel sizing such a big damn secret? NO ONE wants to share any information about this turbo. Very cloak and dagger. And when confronted with this fact, all slim does is talk about proven results (which are mo doubt proven) and investment ( again, no doubts about that either) etc. Garret and B/W have millions more invested and the only spec you can't find on those turbos is an accurate turbine flow map. I mean, is it really that big of a deal to give out the specs of what are most likely off the shelf wheels and housings?